Overrated Prospect Pool

[coladin]

Selling a youth movement with no youth... it’s why I won’t be going to games

I guess we should have youth in the lineup, when they aren't ready to get yer hundred bucks. Dude, they just aren't ready. It isn't exactly torch and pitchfork time. Maybe Formentonn and Davidsson are being challenged by the organization to step it up, not unlike what has happened in the past to other prospects that were touted as players.

 

[Micklebot]

That has more to do with him being a Boucher type IMO, rather than him being an NHLer.

I think if the team sees offensive potential in him, Belleville is where he needs to be to develop it. In Ottawa he'd be playing 4th line and PK. If they saw him as a 4th liner long term, he'd still be in camp imo.

 

[BondraTime]

I think if the team sees offensive potential in him, Belleville is where he needs to be to develop it. In Ottawa he'd be playing 4th line and PK. If they saw him as a 4th liner long term, he'd still be in camp imo.

Oh I agree, I was only saying he’s a Boucher type player which I attribute to him being in Ottawa to start the past 2 seasons.

I’m not sure there’s much offensive potential to bring out of him, but here’s hoping. He’s as close to a lock for a speedy 3rd line 30 point guy, I don’t think the ceiling is much higher than that.

 

[swiftwin]

I’m not sure there’s much offensive potential to bring out of him, but here’s hoping. He’s as close to a lock for a speedy 3rd line 30 point guy, I don’t think the ceiling is much higher than that.

Agreed 100%. I see his absolute top ceiling as a Carl Hagelin.

There's nothing wrong with that either. You need players like that.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Honest question

Does that speak to no one stepping up or more depth in the 10 to 20 forward slot? The team certainly appears harder to make

I'm sure Pierre Dorion would have liked nothing more than to have Logan Brown come in and blow everyone away at camp so he could put Chris Tierney on the market, but that didn't happen.

There were spots to take, but nobody stepped up. Now it's just one training camp so let's not call anyone a bust, but it's certainly be disappointing. You would have hoped the decision to send some of these guys down was harder.

 

[swiftwin]

There pretty consistently seem to be two very distinct sides of the fence here. I am glad to be on my side of that fence.

Which side are you on? The one that constantly overrates our B and C prospects??

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Which side are you on? The one that constantly overrates our B and C prospects??

If you'd like to present this as an exhibit of good judgment on your part because of how highly you rate Chris Tierney, you may want to rethink.

 

[swiftwin]

If you'd like to present this as an exhibit of good judgment on your part because of how highly you rate Chris Tierney, you may want to rethink.

Doubling down, I see?

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Doubling down, I see?

On the Tierney front? Absolutely. He is not a quality NHL player and will struggle mightily this season around so little NHL talent. You're in for a surprise if you're penciling him in for another 48 points. Smith isn't likely to use him as much as Boucher. He wants his Cs to handle defensive duties and that is not something Tierney can excel in.

 

[BonkTastic]

Oh, is this the "Chris Tierney isn't as good as some people might want him to be" thread?

Sweet, count me in. Dude is un-special in just about every way. I haven't liked his motor since the day he got here.

His role should be as a nice 3rd line C on a good team. A fine placeholder or depth player, but that's all he is. He'll get points here because he plays on a team that lacks enough top-6 talent to field a regularly competitive team. His point total with the Sens is a reflection of a team in transition playing guys higher up in the lineup than they would earn otherwise.

He's just a guy. A complimentary player you add to a much better core.

 

[FlyingJ]

Formenton has broken camp the last two seasons though, I'd say it's a bit of a shocker that he not only didn't break camp with the team, but also wasn't even one of the last cuts. Probably better for his development long term and in line with what most around here want (more development time, more offensive role in the A, ect) but it's still surprising.

Part of that might have to do with the fact that, in the past two seasons, it was either the NHL or the OHL for Formenton. He showed enough to intrigue coaching and management so that they kept him around because of this, and at the very least were able to give him a taste of the NHL as a reward. Now though? Sending him to the AHL is an option.

While there's a lot to like about Formenton's game (mostly to do with his speed), there have been questions since his draft year about how well his hands will keep up with that speed at the NHL level. Will he be a legitimate top 6 forward, or a really good bottom 6er who can use his speed on things like the PK and to chip in some offense now and again? I think the AHL will help him and the team determine that.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Tierney? Pssh. Fire that floater in to the sun for a pick or two and call it a day.

 

[Tuna99]

THe prospect pool isn’t overrated it’s juts got a lot of depth players and players who’ll only have 2-3 solid NHL years in them,

The elite skill isn’t there at forward. Especially #1C and #2C - hard to build a winner with no depth at center

 

[Xspyrit]

Rebuild? Context? Some strange concepts here

Decisions won't certainly be the same as you'd normally see

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Which side are you on? The one that constantly overrates our B and C prospects??

Since you said constantly please provide two examples where I have done that. Your link does not show one. Which side are you on? I'll go on the other side.

 

[JD1]

I'm sure Pierre Dorion would have liked nothing more than to have Logan Brown come in and blow everyone away at camp so he could put Chris Tierney on the market, but that didn't happen.

There were spots to take, but nobody stepped up. Now it's just one training camp so let's not call anyone a bust, but it's certainly be disappointing. You would have hoped the decision to send some of these guys down was harder.

What spots are there to take? Up front we have

White
Tkachuk
Brown
Anisimov
Ennis
Ryan
Duclair
Pageau
Tierney
Boedker

We've got Balcers that played almost half the season here last year, has a year and a half pro, world championships etc.

The 10 guys I listed aren't going to be displaced and Balcers you'd expect has a leg up. That leaves 2 spots, one of which is in the press box.

The big line from the AHL is still with the team. We'll see how things go over the next week. I wouldnt be surprised to see Paul stick. He has the least upside of those 3 and is likely much closer to his personal peak. 30 or 40 more games in the A isn't going to do much for Paul at this point

Who did you expect to step up?

Formenton straight from junior?
Norris coming off a shoulder surgery and not having played in 8 months?

I agree with Brown. I had really high hopes for him. But I was at the leaf game last week and he still needs work imo. I am disappointed but that's due to my own high hopes

I think the good news is we've got a ton of guys in the AHL that are young and likely could play in the league but they'll benefit from the ice time in the AHL.

If Brown and Batherson both dont get 40 games up top this year, I'll start getting worried about both.

 

[swiftwin]

Since you said constantly please provide two examples where I have done that. Your link does not show one. Which side are you on? I'll go on the other side.

Which side are you on?

I'm on the side where I think people around here regularly overrate our prospects.

 

[Senscore]

Which side are you on?

I'm on the side where I think people around here regularly overrate our prospects.

I think that's generally a natural thing hockey fans do.

 

[swiftwin]

Oh, is this the "Chris Tierney isn't as good as some people might want him to be" thread?

Sweet, count me in. Dude is un-special in just about every way. I haven't liked his motor since the day he got here.

His role should be as a nice 3rd line C on a good team. A fine placeholder or depth player, but that's all he is. He'll get points here because he plays on a team that lacks enough top-6 talent to field a regularly competitive team. His point total with the Sens is a reflection of a team in transition playing guys higher up in the lineup than they would earn otherwise.

He's just a guy. A complimentary player you add to a much better core.

I totally agree with you. IMO, he's an average 2nd liner on an average team, or a good 3rd liner on a good team. But that's not a bad thing. You need players like that.

My point is that people overrate our B and C tier prospects and peg them higher than someone like Tierney. Beyond Brannstrom and Batherson, I don't realistically see anyone who will be much better than Tierney.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

I think that's generally a natural thing hockey fans do.

Especially on a forum that is focused on prospects.

 

[BonkTastic]

Beyond Brannstrom and Batherson, I don't realistically see anyone who will be much better than Tierney.

If that's the case, then our prospect pool should be rated close to dead last in the league.

Based on this quote alone, I really don't think we see Tierney as the same type or tier of player. Which is fine, but... Yeah. I think I'm either a lot more down on him than you are, or your opinion of our prospect pool is light-years worse than I originally thought.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I totally agree with you. IMO, he's an average 2nd liner on an average team, or a good 3rd liner on a good team. But that's not a bad thing. You need players like that.

My point is that people overrate our B and C tier prospects and peg them higher than someone like Tierney. Beyond Brannstrom and Batherson, I don't realistically see anyone who will be much better than Tierney.

So an average NHL 2C then? Is that what he is. So would you say he is in the top 50 C's in the league?

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

I totally agree with you. IMO, he's an average 2nd liner on an average team, or a good 3rd liner on a good team. But that's not a bad thing. You need players like that.

My point is that people overrate our B and C tier prospects and peg them higher than someone like Tierney. Beyond Brannstrom and Batherson, I don't realistically see anyone who will be much better than Tierney.

Tierney was a 3rd line player on the league's worst team last season.

 

[aragorn]

My hoping that Formenton becomes an Andrew Ladd type of player, can play a 200' game, is good offensively & defensive;y, plays with an edge & can put up a good number of pts every yr, a complete player.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I don't think it needs to be at all.

I think the issue, regardless of whether or not you are an optimist, or skeptic, or pessimist about our prospects, is how belligerent you are in how you present your argument.

If you are optimistic about a prospect, you should have no issue at least having a discussion with a skeptic or a pessimist. Same if you're a skeptic or pessimist. Just because you think one thing, it doesn't mean that someone who is politely presenting another side of the argument is doing anything wrong. That's what a discussion is after all.

The problem is when people try to force their opinions onto others, and try to demean the other person's views as a way to "win" the debate.

People can be excited about whatever they want, or not. The only time it's ever actually an issue is when you get the types who respond like "YOU'RE CRAZY AND STUPID FOR THINKING SUCH A STUPID THING, OMG WHAT A BUNCH OF SCHMUCKS, YOU'RE ALL CRAZY, I'M RIGHT AND YOU'RE ALL WRONG, BUNCHA DUMMIES!"

If we all agreed on things, this place would be hella-boring. We just need to remember not to be d-bags about our differing opinions, that's all.

definitely agree with all of this.