Overrated Prospect Pool

[Joeyjoejoe]

And how exactly would we be drafting Byram with this lineup?

Craig Anderson is still our goalie.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Craig Anderson is still our goalie.

He looks cooked.

Time to hang em up Craig, you had a good run.

 

[Sens]

The prospects suck so the Sens traded for Namestnikov

 

[Matsens15]

Nah they are fine they are where they should be, in the AHL. Edmonton is the prime example why you should not rush kids that are not ready. Dorion is actually doing a good thing of leaving them in the AHL(ask Ken Holland).

 

[jhutter]

Nah they are fine they are where they should be, in the AHL. Edmonton is the prime example why you should not rush kids that are not ready. Dorion is actually doing a good thing of leaving them in the AHL(ask Ken Holland).

Did Edmonton's prospects fail because they were "rushed" or because they were poor picks?

 

[Matsens15]

Did Edmonton's prospects fail because they were "rushed" or because they were poor picks?

We could argue for both options. They were bad pick because they were ‘’rushed’’.

 

[DylanSensFan]

Did Edmonton's prospects fail because they were "rushed" or because they were poor picks?

I think it is a little bit of both and more. Edmonton thought they could rely on McDavid to carry the team. But the fact is, like in Pittsburgh, you often need two superstars to win a cup, or even make the playoffs for that matter. In Ottawa it used to be Stone and Karlsson. Edmonton's defense is also lack luster, sans maybe two defenders. Nurse has looked decent, but I feel he is still developing. Adam Larsson could be better. Edmonton need to fill out their defense and get a true #1 goalie or maybe Talbot develops into one.

 

[BonkTastic]

Did Edmonton's prospects fail because they were "rushed" or because they were poor picks?

Yes.

 

[Sens]

Ottawa: 1-5-1
Belleville: 1-4-0

Very real possibility the Sens have the worst club in both leagues

It’s looking like the system is in the 25-31st range

 

[Micklebot]

Ottawa: 1-5-1
Belleville: 1-4-0

Very real possibility the Sens have the worst club in both leagues

It’s looking like the system is in the 25-31st range

Lassi Thomson 6pts in 14 as an 18 19 year old in the liga
JBD 5 pts in 4 games as 19 yr old in ncaa
Batherson 7 pts in 4 games
Brown 7 pts in 5 games.

We have good prospects playing in different leagues and you can be a great player and be playing on flawed teams. Duchene and Stone were still great players despite playing on a sens team that finished bottom of the league.

 

[Daffy]

Lassi Thomson 6pts in 14 as an 18 year old in the liga
JBD 5 pts in 4 games as 19 yr old in ncaa
Batherson 7 pts in 4 games
Brown 7 pts in 5 games.

We have good prospects playing in different leagues and you can be a great player and be playing on flawed teams. Duchene and Stone were still great players despite playing on a sens team that finished bottom of the league.

We should have way better prospects than we do though. All good. Nothing really great.

 

[BondraTime]

Lassi Thomson 6pts in 14 as an 18 year old in the liga
JBD 5 pts in 4 games as 19 yr old in ncaa
Batherson 7 pts in 4 games
Brown 7 pts in 5 games.

We have good prospects playing in different leagues and you can be a great player and be playing on flawed teams. Duchene and Stone were still great players despite playing on a sens team that finished bottom of the league.

Thomson is 19 and in his 19 year old season

 

[Micklebot]

Thomson is 19 and in his 19 year old season

My bad, forgot he was a late bday. Doesn't really take away for the overall point though.

Good prospects can play on bad teams or in leagues other than the AHL and NHL. Judging prospect pools based on AHL/NHL team standings frankly absurd.

 

[Micklebot]

We should have way better prospects than we do though. All good. Nothing really great.

Sure, that's not really relevant to the discussion being had here though.

 

[Ice-Tray]

We should have way better prospects than we do though. All good. Nothing really great.

Why should we have way better prospects? We have had 1 top 4 pick and he’s on the team. We’ve also had a home run mid 1st also on the team. We had two rookies in the AHL last year have top notch seasons, can we really expect better?

I don’t think we have drafted anywhere close to high enough to be expecting better from our kids. They actually look pretty darn good for where we have been picking.

Next year should add another handful of good players, with at least one top guy. The next two seasons should be where we can add ‘great’ to our ‘good’. I hear you though, I covet some top picks as well!

 

[Blotto71]

Sure, that's not really relevant to the discussion being had here though.

Not buying that. You just agreed that the Sens should have better prospects but state that the prospect pool cannot be judged by NHL/AHL standings. Arguably, the prospects that should be capable of moving into NHL roles sooner than later are in one of those two leagues already (there are always exceptions, kids that can jump right to the NHL and be impactful...I challenge you to name one in the Sens pool of prospects though). So by my reckoning you absolutely can judge the prospect pool by those standings. And the Sens pool is full of middling top 9 forwards because they play it safe in the draft. There are no game breakers in the system.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Problem is that dumping all our best players in the last two years has also broken down the filtering process.

We should be able to have our best prospects work their way up to the top line but we can't.

This is now a structural issue. Very little talent in the NHL and no defense down in the AHL. To be fair, Balcers and Wolanin going down to significant injury isn't something you can plan for.

 

[MatchesMalone]

Problem is that dumping all our best players in the last two years has also broken down the filtering process.

We should be able to have our best prospects work their way up to the top line but we can't.

This is now a structural issue. Very little talent in the NHL and no defense down in the AHL. To be fair, Balcers and Wolanin going down to significant injury isn't something you can plan for.

Good point. There's a lot of fans complaining about non-issues. Our prospect pool is very strong. Unless they're truly elite, 20 year old prospects don't tip the scales at the AHL level. Top AHL teams are mostly veteran pros with a few good prospects sprinkled in.

If there is a serious flaw with the rebuild model it is this structural problem. Good rebuilds should be a slow process with a good team slowly moving out secondary pieces and building up a strong prospect pool, and then slowly working those prospects into the lineup.

 

[MatchesMalone]

Not buying that. You just agreed that the Sens should have better prospects but state that the prospect pool cannot be judged by NHL/AHL standings. Arguably, the prospects that should be capable of moving into NHL roles sooner than later are in one of those two leagues already (there are always exceptions, kids that can jump right to the NHL and be impactful...I challenge you to name one in the Sens pool of prospects though). So by my reckoning you absolutely can judge the prospect pool by those standings. And the Sens pool is full of middling top 9 forwards because they play it safe in the draft. There are no game breakers in the system.

There's a big difference between good prospects and NHL-ready prospects. All your argument shows is that we're not going to be a good team next season. Ok then.

 

[Sensinitis]

The outlook on defence is looking very good. Probably the deepest U-25 in the NHL. Chabot/Brannstrom/Wolanin/Lajoie/JBD/Thomson/Jaros is excellent.

In nets we’re in the upper echelon of the league also with Mads/Gus/Hog.

Just missing a bluechip 1st line forward...

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

We should have way better prospects than we do though. All good. Nothing really great.

Still a bit early in the season to really make a judgement call.

While I'm not convinced we have a top 5 (or even top 10) pool, I don't think the pool is lousy, either.

Like DMST said above, our biggest problem right now is structural. We don't really have the pieces in place here or in Belleville to really insulate the kids and allow them the best opportunity for growth and development. And that really hurts. Sure, there are a few McDavid or Eichel level types who can plow through in a poor organization and still excel...but 99% of prospects that have the potential to be legit NHLers need some help along the way. Poor support will cost us some kids that otherwise would've made it.

 

[Emrasie]

The team have a lot of good prospects but no top end talent, at least one would help + to have a great team you need an owner who can/want spend money to attract very good players.

Brady i think is a good prospect who can be great with very good players around but alone he is just average/good currently.

The D looks very promising and stacked, the offense not so much. Lack 3/4 very good players/prospects.

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

We lack 2 top end forwards that can drive the line and make everyone they play with better. Tkachuk for all his great assets isn't that. We have a lot of good supporting players but no one that can drive play every shift, like a Mark Stone, Alfie or Spezza.

 

[Xspyrit]

The outlook on defence is looking very good. Probably the deepest U-25 in the NHL. Chabot/Brannstrom/Wolanin/Lajoie/JBD/Thomson/Jaros is excellent.

In nets we’re in the upper echelon of the league also with Mads/Gus/Hog.

Just missing a bluechip 1st line forward...

The prospects are currently evolving in a discombobulated system. What this team went through between the 2017-18 and 2018-19 trade deadlines is almost unprecedented... Brassard, Phaneuf, Hoffman, Karlsson, Turris/Duchene, Dzingel, Stone... That's a LOT of proven and established skill traded/sold away for pretty much only futures. It would have been a PURE MIRACLE if the team was already recovering from that... I'm not really sure what people are/were expecting? Personally, I'm just hoping to see progress and I'm not holding my breath until next season.

The Zibanejad trade still hurts. Brassard was a good player when acquired but was destined for a rapid decline. I'm not a doctor or an insider so I don't know but maybe his decline should have been anticipated considering his injury history (like it was anticipated for Spezza and Heatley for example, which is why teams weren't lining up when they became available). That being said, Zibanejad should have been an untouchable so if that's NYR ask, then you explore a cheaper option. Silver lining is that Dorion got a nice return for Brassard to Pittsburgh and we ended up with Gustavsson, JBD, Tychonick and a 3rd but these "assets" will have to do something tangible at the NHL level to soften the Zbad blow.

At the NHL level, the Sens have a good little team overall to keep games interesting but NO first liner (I believe Tkachuk will be but it's his 2nd pro year) and only two top-4 D-men... On top of that, the goaltending is shaky with Andy at the end of his career and Nilsson who is capable of good and bad. Not talking about a coaching change (and another cheap unproven coach) and the bad aura around ownership. Based on all that, very hard to win many games, the parity and overall talent in the NHL is way too high. You often hear "trash" "they blow" "this team this this team that" but it's more kids talking , who are they kidding? The overall NHL talent is just insane.


Like you said, on defense it's looking good. Not as sold on goaltending outside of Sogaard and maybe Hogberg. Daccord, Mandolese and Gus will have to really progress. We need to add 2 elite/high end forwards. I believe the opportunity will be really good in June with a high pick (and SJ's) in a draft stacked in high end forwards.

Defense NHL locks : Chabot-Brannstrom-Wolanin (that's half of a great defense, and Zaitsev is only 27 and a good stop gap giving more time for prospects)

Prospects with pedigree/potential : Thomson-JBD-Jaros-Lajoie-Alsing-Guenette? Tychonick?


Forwards NHL locks : Tkachuk-White (and several young-ish forwards who could be worth keeping : Duclair, Brown, Pageau, Namestnikov, Tierney)

Prospects with pedigree/potential : Brown-Batherson-Norris-Formenton-Balcers-Gruden-Davidsson-Pinto-Abramov-Crookshank-Chlapik-Kastelic-Paul? Veronneau? Kelly?

I see these guys as almost sure bets to be top-9 forwards : Brown-Batherson-Norris-Formenton-Balcers

Add two high end forwards (ex : Byfield/Lafreniere and Rossi/Gunler) and it's looking pretty good as well. I'm not the type to wish bad for others but if the Sharks could have a bad season, it would help a lot and after this draft we're going to be rich in young assets. Even if we don't end up with a pick that high from them, we're still going to add several good/great prospect with two 1sts and three 2nds

 

[Blotto71]

There's a big difference between good prospects and NHL-ready prospects. All your argument shows is that we're not going to be a good team next season. Ok then.

My argument is that the system is chock full of guys destined for 3rd or 4th line roles - if you think that is a recipe for success beyond next year, good on you, I appreciate your optimism. My argument is that the Sens have drafted "safe" over "skill" every opportunity they've had. Without high end skill this team is going to be bad far beyond next season.