Salary Cap: Nazem “Suspension” Kadri – Cap casualty?

[Budsfan]

Dubas is bringing in a number of players that play with an edge to their game, like Ilya Mikheyev and Likely Mason Marchment plus Pierre Engvall from the Marlies and perhaps adding a D like Brett Pesce or Jacob Trouba.
In the turmoil of having been put out of the playoffs, it was identified that more toughness was required on the team and I believe we will have a lot more toughness next year.
Kadri is a loose cannon and there is no reason to believe he will change and add that to the fact he can't play as a 3rd line centre and his cap hit is more than most teams pay players at that position, ideally a player like Charlie Coyle with a cap hit at 3.2 mill can be added, or since Nylander is already here and although his cap hit is too much but he can play 3rd line centre.

 

[sparxx87]

We've all seen how "massive" can turn into zero overnight. How many more times do you need to see this happen in the playoffs before seeing this as a serious issue that "masively" detracts from his value?



He's unable to do the very first thing that you need to do to help the team win - be eligible to play. How you don't get this is beyond my comprehension.

You’re thinking with emotion and not reason.

He hurt the team by not playing, and your solution is to trade him from the team forever? How you think that makes sense is beyond my comprehension.

 

[Deebo]

Lou was/is a magician?
Every team goes through this - keeping some, letting others go for cap issues. Ok most teams

It was this "magician" who caved in to Marleau and gave him the 3rd year to begin with when he easily could have said no.

He thought giving a 38 year old 45 point winger 3 years 6.25M+ on a 35+ contract with a full NMC was good idea when that 3rd year would coincide with Marner and Matthews needing deals and Gardiner's contract expiring.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You’re thinking with emotion and not reason.

He hurt the team by not playing, and your solution is to trade him from the team forever? How you think that makes sense is beyond my comprehension.

Take a look in the mirror.

Reason says that despite the fact that he's been my favourite player for about 7 years now, if he can't control his temper when it matters most, his value to us goes down.

BTW, when you use phrases like "trade him forever" instead of "trade", it's a pretty clear sign that you're letting your emotions get the better of you.

 

[sparxx87]

Take a look in the mirror.

Reason says that despite the fact that he's been my favourite player for about 7 years now, if he can't control his temper when it matters most, his value to us goes down.

BTW, when you use phrases like "trade him forever" instead of "trade", it's a pretty clear sign that you're letting your emotions get the better of you.

Actually, I’m exaggerating your emotions. Theres a very big difference.

I was pissed that Kadri got suspended. I was more pissed that 8-9 of the other forwards didn’t show up. To me, they’re a far more dire concern if you actually hope to win anything.

To be honest, though, pissed is an overstatement. I’m pretty unemotional watching hockey. I’ve played, coached and refereed for so long that I just....watch?

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Dubas is bringing in a number of players that play with an edge to their game, like Ilya Mikheyev and Likely Mason Marchment plus Pierre Engvall from the Marlies and perhaps adding a D like Brett Pesce or Jacob Trouba.
In the turmoil of having been put out of the playoffs, it was identified that more toughness was required on the team and I believe we will have a lot more toughness next year.
Kadri is a loose cannon and there is no reason to believe he will change and add that to the fact he can't play as a 3rd line centre and his cap hit is more than most teams pay players at that position, ideally a player like Charlie Coyle with a cap hit at 3.2 mill can be added, or since Nylander is already here and although his cap hit is too much but he can play 3rd line centre.

We need a Lowry/Jenner esque 3c

 

[Gary Nylund]

Actually, I’m exaggerating your emotions. Theres a very big difference.

I was pissed that Kadri got suspended. I was more pissed that 8-9 of the other forwards didn’t show up. To me, they’re a far more dire concern if you actually hope to win anything.

LOL. Why are you exaggerating my emotions? Difference between what?

 

[Pookie]

Now you’re just talking crazy.

Touché

 

[sparxx87]

LOL. Why are you exaggerating my emotions? Difference between what?

My post suggested you were more emotional than would be reasonably expected of you. I did so in hopes you’d maybe catch your emotion and realize you’re being kind of silly.

It was worth a shot.

 

[Gary Nylund]

My post suggested you were more emotional than would be reasonably expected of you. I did so in hopes you’d maybe catch your emotion and realize you’re being kind of silly.

It was worth a shot.

The fact that you're going on and on about my "emotions" is a sure sign that you're out of arguments. If you want to have a discussion that's fine, if all you're interested in talking about is emotions then I suggest you take a break.

 

[sparxx87]

The fact that you're going on and on about my "emotions" is a sure sign that you're out of arguments. If you want to have a discussion that's fine, if all you're interested in talking about is emotions then I suggest you take a break.

I only bring it up because making emotional decisions instead of logical ones is not a sign of good management.

I’m not arguing anything or anyone. My points are very clear. Smart teams don’t trade good assets out of emotion. Trading Kadri for anything less than an improvement for the team would be routed in emotion. It’s not overly complicated.

Again, consider where we were before the playoffs. Don’t you think it’s on emotion that your opinions could change so drastically over a play that’s happened hundreds if not thousands of times over the course of history?

 

[TheProspector]

I think people would initially be a little disappointed with Trouba. At what will end up being a much larger cap hit, he is not as good as Gardiner defensively, while only being comparable defensively. Of course, Gardiner is 4 years older, so he'd ostensibly eclipse Gardiner over the course of his contract.

But I'd rather sign Gardiner, keep Kadri, and dump Zaitsev+Marleau if possible.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I only bring it up because making emotional decisions instead of logical ones is not a sign of good management.
?

You get no points for stating the obvious.

I’m not arguing anything or anyone. My points are very clear. Smart teams don’t trade good assets out of emotion. Trading Kadri for anything less than an improvement for the team would be routed in emotion. It’s not overly complicated.

You get no points for stating the obvious.

Again, consider where we were before the playoffs. Don’t you think it’s on emotion that your opinions could change so drastically over a play that’s happened hundreds if not thousands of times over the course of history?

How many times in NHL history has a player gotten suspended in the first round of the playoffs two years in a row?

Answer that question, put your emotions aside and tell me - what kind of impact does this history have on Kadri's trade value. The reason I ask is because from your posts, it's not clear to me that you think it has any impact at all.

And BTW, I put tremendous value on players who stick up for their teammates. That value goes way down though when they can't control their emotions and do it in a way that hurts the team (which getting suspended clearly does).

 

[sparxx87]

You get no points for stating the obvious.



You get no points for stating the obvious.



How many times in NHL history has a player gotten suspended in the first round of the playoffs two years in a row?

Answer that question, put your emotions aside and tell me - what kind of impact does this history have on Kadri's trade value. The reason I ask is because from your posts, it's not clear to me that you think it has any impact at all.

And BTW, I put tremendous value on players who stick up for their teammates. That value goes way down though when they can't control their emotions and do it in a way that hurts the team (which getting suspended clearly does).

How many times has a player been suspended 3 years in a row in the playoffs?

Genuine question. My guess is never.

I guess you’re all expecting Kadri will make history?


Value is subjective. I’m sure there’s GM’s who feel like you do, but I’m also sure there’s one who feel like I do. They’d love to be opportunistic and buy low on Kadri right now.

 

[Gary Nylund]

How many times has a player been suspended 3 years in a row in the playoffs?

Genuine question. My guess is never.

I guess you’re all expecting Kadri will make history?

Considering I don't know that a player has ever been suspended in the 1st round in consecutive years, I suspect Kadri may have already made history. Am I wrong?

I'll bet you were saying the same thing last season - now way Kadris' dumb enough to do it two years in a row. If that's the case, then you've been proven wrong, haven't you?

And BTW, I'm not "expecting" anything, I'm just making the completely rational observation that Kadri has been suspended many times, twice now in the playoffs, there's no denying there's a pattern here and only a fool would dismiss the possibility of history repeating itself when it's already done so a number times.

Value is subjective. I’m sure there’s GM’s who feel like you do, but I’m also sure there’s one who feel like I do. They’d love to be opportunistic and buy low on Kadri right now.

So you don't want to answer about the impact of the suspensions impact Kadri's trade value, OK. I can only assume that's because you don't want him traded but you just can't bring yourself to admit what you know is true - his value has taken a big hit.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Not even considering the suspensions, when Kadri's deal is up in 2022, he'll be on the wrong side of 30 - 32 I believe. So there is an argument to be made that his value is probably at it's highest now (even after the off-year), and chances are the leafs don't re-sign.

 

[sparxx87]

Considering I don't know that a player has ever been suspended in the 1st round in consecutive years, I suspect Kadri may have already made history. Am I wrong?

I'll bet you were saying the same thing last season - now way Kadris' dumb enough to do it two years in a row. If that's the case, then you've been proven wrong, haven't you?

And BTW, I'm not "expecting" anything, I'm just making the completely rational observation that Kadri has been suspended many times, twice now in the playoffs, there's no denying there's a pattern here and only a fool would dismiss the possibility of history repeating itself when it's already done so a number times.



So you don't want to answer about the impact of the suspensions impact Kadri's trade value, OK. I can only assume that's because you don't want him traded but you just can't bring yourself to admit what you know is true - his value has taken a big hit.

Well, we know that two of anything isn’t a pattern, right? I don’t pay any attention to all that outside noise, I watch the game.

I didn’t speak on his suspension last year because I don’t care. He again, was one of your least concerns on that team.

The only thing I know is that value is subjective. This thread is case in point.

Consider how Babcock wants to play, his philosophy. Now consider the president, and how he liked the play the game... Do you really believe Nazem Kadri, above all the others, has worn out his welcome with those two? My only concern is Robin with that Batman belt.


I don’t care whether Kadri is traded, either.. but if they trade him, it’d better be for an impact defenseman or you’ve only made your team worse. Pennies on the dollar is poor asset management.

 

[BlueForever75]

Kadri will not be traded. Bank on it.

Same people wanting to get rid of him for his demeanor are the ones asking for more like him with edge. At his cap hit, it would be foolish cap management to get rid of Kadri for what he provides.

He's a bargain.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Kadri will not be traded. Bank on it.

Same people wanting to get rid of him for his demeanor are the ones asking for more like him with edge. At his cap hit, it would be foolish cap management to get rid of Kadri for what he provides.

He's a bargain.

He's a bargain at age 28 with 2 suspensions in the playoffs that cost his team dearly. There's a lot to consider there

 

[Jeypic]

Ya’ll better not ever try to play the stock market.

Buy low, sell high.

Not the other way around.

Kadris value is as low as it will ever be right now. He just had back to back suspensions in the playoffs. That is pretty flukey. Definitely other gm’s are calling Dubas right now hoping he’ll sell low.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Well, we know that two of anything isn’t a pattern, right? I don’t pay any attention to all that outside noise, I watch the game.

I didn’t speak on his suspension last year because I don’t care. He again, was one of your least concerns on that team.

The only thing I know is that value is subjective. This thread is case in point.

Consider how Babcock wants to play, his philosophy. Now consider the president, and how he liked the play the game... Do you really believe Nazem Kadri, above all the others, has worn out his welcome with those two? My only concern is Robin with that Batman belt.


I don’t care whether Kadri is traded, either.. but if they trade him, it’d better be for an impact defenseman or you’ve only made your team worse. Pennies on the dollar is poor asset management.

Kadri has been suspended many times. Say "just" twice in the playoffs if you like but considering how few playoff games he's been involved in, twice is a LOT and only continues the pattern that's been well established in the regular season. Call it "noise" and don't pay attention if that's how you roll, I pay attention to everything that impacts the team.

I'd like to keep him if I could have faith that he's able to break this pattern but in my case, faith isn't blind.

Kadri will not be traded. Bank on it.

Same people wanting to get rid of him for his demeanor are the ones asking for more like him with edge. At his cap hit, it would be foolish cap management to get rid of Kadri for what he provides.

He's a bargain.

I'm all about the playoffs and in the playoffs, he's hasn't provided sweet f*** all the last couple of years.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Ya’ll better not ever try to play the stock market.

Buy low, sell high.

Not the other way around.

Kadris value is as low as it will ever be right now. He just had back to back suspensions in the playoffs. That is pretty flukey. Definitely other gm’s are calling Dubas right now hoping he’ll sell low.

Maybe, we really don't know. There may be GM's who think (like you do) that the suspensions are a fluke in which case he should fetch a good return. If the offers suck then you keep him and revisit the issue later in the season.

I'm pretty sure no one wants to give him away no matter what but if GM's are interested, it doesn't hurt to listen.

 

[sparxx87]

Kadri has been suspended many times. Say "just" twice in the playoffs if you like but considering how few playoff games he's been involved in, twice is a LOT and only continues the pattern that's been well established in the regular season. Call it "noise" and don't pay attention if that's how you roll, I pay attention to everything that impacts the team.

I'd like to keep him if I could have faith that he's able to break this pattern but in my case, faith isn't blind.



I'm all about the playoffs and in the playoffs, he's hasn't provided sweet **** all the last couple of years.

Since you’ve apparently picked out a pattern (two of anything isn’t one) when will his next suspension be? Can you even guarantee he’ll be suspended at all? What sort of odds are you placing? There may be some bets for you and I to make.

The ‘noise’ I refer to is that from the media and fans. They have a job to do, but it doesn’t always include being fair, objective, or even accurate.

 

[kb]

Maybe, we really don't know. There may be GM's who think (like you do) that the suspensions are a fluke in which case he should fetch a good return. If the offers suck then you keep him and revisit the issue later in the season.

I'm pretty sure no one wants to give him away no matter what but if GM's are interested, it doesn't hurt to listen.

Absolutely don't want to give him away. But I just hit the same point you are at last year after the playoffs

 

[Jeypic]

Maybe, we really don't know. There may be GM's who think (like you do) that the suspensions are a fluke in which case he should fetch a good return. If the offers suck then you keep him and revisit the issue later in the season.

I'm pretty sure no one wants to give him away no matter what but if GM's are interested, it doesn't hurt to listen.

They aren’t a fluke.. they are extremely fresh examples of his questionable character. Which is why I’m not paying full price for him. (If i were a gm)

Do i think he’s gonna get suspended next playoffs? No. So thanks for selling him to me low Dubas .