Salary Cap: Nazem “Suspension” Kadri – Cap casualty?

[Pookie]

He’s a fearless competitor, and you can’t teach that. He’s a player you win with

Is he?

Hard to win with a player that only plays 6 out of 14 playoff games.

Your idealistic view of the player doesn’t match reality.

Easier to manage the heart of a lion than to create one.

Leafs need more players like Kadri, not less.

How’s the management part of this player working out? Did we reduce his suspension time with the league or something?

He learned absolutely nothing from his first four suspensions. What makes you think he’ll learn from his latest?

 

[sparxx87]

Is he?

Hard to win with a player that only plays 6 out of 14 playoff games.

Your idealistic view of the player doesn’t match reality.



How’s the management part of this player working out? Did we reduce his suspension time with the league or something?

He learned absolutely nothing from his first four suspensions. What makes you think he’ll learn from his latest?

You’re emotional, I get it. It’s incredibly frustrating seeing a stupid decision have a negative effect on something you like.

...but trading a very good player who brings a unique skill set to your team for anything less than market value, because you’re angry at him, is very poor asset management.

You only move Kadri if you can make an impact on the blue line.

 

[Stephen]

You’re emotional, I get it. It’s incredibly frustrating seeing a stupid decision have a negative effect on something you like.

...but trading a very good player who brings a unique skill set to your team for anything less than market value, because you’re angry at him, is very poor asset management.

You only move Kadri if you can make an impact on the blue line.

I would also move Kadri for a sweetheart futures package that could make others expendable or allow us to put together a better package for an impact on the blueline at a later date.

As long as the value is good, I have no qualms.

 

[biotk]

Nazem "Suspension" Kadri – Cap casualty? | Leafs Hub



Jeff Williams of Leafshub talks why Kadri might move and where he could go

So the idea is that the Leafs' should trade an asset when their value is low because.....

 

[Leafling]

I posted this in another thread:
It’s also important to apply context to the last two suspensions. Both games the Leafs were getting beat up and physically intimidated... When the rest of the team was rattled Kadri gritted his teeth and swung back. He’s often the guy that does that but people only remember the few times he crossed the line.

Here’s a memorable one for me where it went the other way;



This was their first year back in the playoffs, first game at home and they fell down 2 early. They were visibly rattled and the building was lifeless. Nobody could get anything going and this completely turned the tables. If memory serves correctly, they won this game in overtime.

How quickly some can turn on a player whose often the heartbeat of the team. How soon you forget all the good he does.

Ironic, really.

Thanks for that man. Probably one of the most exciting series I've watched.

The only difference is Washington players didn't get a free pass to retaliate or initiate cheap shots n dangerous plays. Boston usually plays on that line n that's where Kadri cuts lose. I personally love what the guy brings to the team but honestly if we are going for pure skill and telling our guys to just look the other way on plays like knee on knee, or that elbow to the face, or that shoulder to the face hits then i feel a guy like Kadri is better off traded cause he will always make those stupid emotional plays.

 

[Pookie]

You’re emotional, I get it. It’s incredibly frustrating seeing a stupid decision have a negative effect on something you like.

...but trading a very good player who brings a unique skill set to your team for anything less than market value, because you’re angry at him, is very poor asset management.

You only move Kadri if you can make an impact on the blue line.

You keep on about what he brings to the team. You should be reminded that when it matters, he brought everything he had to the press box.

Anyways, you’d rather move Zaitsev... which impacts the blue line?

Or Nylander?

Those are your choices. One of the 3 is going. Wishing and hoping won’t change the reality.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I posted this in another thread:
It’s also important to apply context to the last two suspensions. Both games the Leafs were getting beat up and physically intimidated... When the rest of the team was rattled Kadri gritted his teeth and swung back. He’s often the guy that does that but people only remember the few times he crossed the line.

Here’s a memorable one for me where it went the other way;

This was their first year back in the playoffs, first game at home and they fell down 2 early. They were visibly rattled and the building was lifeless. Nobody could get anything going and this completely turned the tables. If memory serves correctly, they won this game in overtime.

How quickly some can turn on a player whose often the heartbeat of the team. How soon you forget all the good he does.

Ironic, really.

I haven't forgotten anything, I'm not turning on anyone and in case you're not aware, I've been one of Kadri's biggest boosters here over the years and I've defended him when others been dumping on him. That doesn't mean I'm now going to turn a blind eye to the fact that he can't control himself, has gotten booted from the playoffs two years in a row and we simply can't count on the guy. Regular season is nice but playoffs are what it's all about and getting suspended two years in a row in the playoffs takes a huge chunk off your value, do you not see that? I'm not saying get rid of him no matter what, I'm just saying that his value has taken a huge hit and if a good trade offer comes along, I'm about a 100 times more willing to listen than I was before.

I love Kadri, I always have but I gotta put the team first.

 

[sparxx87]

You keep on about what he brings to the team. You should be reminded that when it matters, he brought everything he had to the press box.

Anyways, you’d rather move Zaitsev... which impacts the blue line?

Or Nylander?

Those are your choices. One of the 3 is going. Wishing and hoping won’t change the reality.

Yeah, I guess I remove emotion and think logically; he made thousands of good decisions on the ice just this season, and you’re hung up on one of the few bad ones. Yes, a bad one was impactful, but what about all the good ones that were, too?

How can you make that call without knowing what everyone wants? How much for Marner? How much for Johnsson? How much for Kapanen? What’s happening with Marleau?

Moving Zaitsev opens a big hole, and it would be colossally stupid to trade Nylander unless someone makes a career ending overpayment.

I’m not wishing or hoping anything. The Leafs are losing Johnsson or Kapanen and possibly more. That’s what happens when you give Robin the Bat-suit.

The only thing I know is that I’d feel a lot better about this if Lou was driving. Robin hasn’t driven the batmobile before, and from the looks of things, he can’t really see over the wheel. A poor perspective, I guess you’d say.

 

[sparxx87]

I haven't forgotten anything, I'm not turning on anyone and in case you're not aware, I've been one of Kadri's biggest boosters here over the years and I've defended him when others been dumping on him. That doesn't mean I'm now going to turn a blind eye to the fact that he can't control himself, has gotten booted from the playoffs two years in a row and we simply can't count on the guy. Regular season is nice but playoffs are what it's all about and getting suspended two years in a row in the playoffs takes a huge chunk off your value, do you not see that? I'm not saying get rid of him no matter what, I'm just saying that his value has taken a huge hit and if a good trade offer comes along, I'm about a 100 times more willing to listen than I was before.

I love Kadri, I always have but I gotta put the team first.

Understandable.

For me, if you’ve made up your mind to trade Kadri, you’ve lost already. If someone will buy him, sure. Looking to sell, you’ll lose every time.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Trading Kadri right now would be dumb unless we have a centre option of equal talent at a better salary. Please tell me where we'll find that.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Kadri wasn't gritty all year probably avoiding suspendable hits until his brain shut off again this post season.

Kadri ain't going anywhere. Kadri is a hometown boy and wants to stay. Dubas is a wuss and won't trade people who don't want to be traded.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Understandable.

For me, if you’ve made up your mind to trade Kadri, you’ve lost already. If someone will buy him, sure. Looking to sell, you’ll lose every time.

I'm not one of the people who wants to ship him out no matter what, definitely not giving him away. I'm not sure what his value is though, he's a bit of an enigma to me. It seems a lot of people are interested because they need a centre badly and whatever else, if they don't think his value has plummeted after his suspensions and we can get a good price I'd do it as for a team that wants to win the cup and probably has to go through Boston, to me he just doesn't have that much value any more.

Trading Kadri right now would be dumb unless we have a centre option of equal talent at a better salary. Please tell me where we'll find that.

Based on the last couple of years, anyone who can keep from getting suspended in the playoffs is more than equal talent.

 

[Pookie]

Yeah, I guess I remove emotion and think logically; he made thousands of good decisions on the ice just this season, and you’re hung up on one of the few bad ones. Yes, a bad one was impactful, but what about all the good ones that were, too?

How can you make that call without knowing what everyone wants? How much for Marner? How much for Johnsson? How much for Kapanen? What’s happening with Marleau?

Moving Zaitsev opens a big hole, and it would be colossally stupid to trade Nylander unless someone makes a career ending overpayment.

I’m not wishing or hoping anything. The Leafs are losing Johnsson or Kapanen and possibly more. That’s what happens when you give Robin the Bat-suit.

The only thing I know is that I’d feel a lot better about this if Lou was driving. Robin hasn’t driven the batmobile before, and from the looks of things, he can’t really see over the wheel. A poor perspective, I guess you’d say.

There are pros and cons to all of the options. And you don’t need to know what each wants just yet. You know Marner’s range and his ask.

But simple math is this.

We have 8.8M in cap space if Gardiner and Hainsey walk. They need to be replaced. With a league minimum replacement (700k) per, we now have 8.8-1.4 or 7.4 to sign Kappy, AJ and Marner.

If we take a bare bones scenario and let AJ, Kappy also walk and replace with league minimum we gain $100k back.

So 7.5 to sign Marner.

Let’s do the popular move and trade Brown. That gives us 2.1M or 9.6M to sign Marner.

But we also need to spend 700k on Brown’s replacement now. So 8.9. To sign Marner.

That’s just not enough.

Hyman? 2.5 in savings but another 700k in replacement and we are getting really close. 10.7 available.

Our roster now has 6 guys making league minimum. No Kappy, AJ, Brown or Hyman.

But we’ve got Kadri.

And that assumes Marner takes 10.7.

Or move Kadri. Get a net of 3.8 to give 12.6 to play with. 1.4 goes to the blue line so 11.2 is left.

Brown has to go as well. That’s 12.9. That may be enough to keep Kapanen and Marner.

You just have to go with what gives you the best possible roster out of all the options.

—-
Completely agree that this mess was created with the Marleau contract, then J.T., and then the Matthews and Nylander extensions.

The Hail Mary here is Marleau somehow agreeing to move. But you can only make the offer, he decides.

The planning has to involve the idea he stays.

 

[sparxx87]

There are pros and cons to all of the options. And you don’t need to know what each wants just yet. You know Marner’s range and his ask.

But simple math is this.

We have 8.8M in cap space if Gardiner and Hainsey walk. They need to be replaced. With a league minimum replacement (700k) per, we now have 8.8-1.4 or 7.4 to sign Kappy, AJ and Marner.

If we take a bare bones scenario and let AJ, Kappy also walk and replace with league minimum we gain $100k back.

So 7.5 to sign Marner.

Let’s do the popular move and trade Brown. That gives us 2.1M or 9.6M to sign Marner.

But we also need to spend 700k on Brown’s replacement now. So 8.9. To sign Marner.

That’s just not enough.

Hyman? 2.5 in savings but another 700k in replacement and we are getting really close. 10.7 available.

Our roster now has 6 guys making league minimum. No Kappy, AJ, Brown or Hyman.

But we’ve got Kadri.

And that assumes Marner takes 10.7.

Or move Kadri. Get a net of 3.8 to give 12.6 to play with. 1.4 goes to the blue line so 11.2 is left.

Brown has to go as well. That’s 12.9. That may be enough to keep Kapanen and Marner.

You just have to go with what gives you the best possible roster out of all the options.

—-
Completely agree that this mess was created with the Marleau contract, then J.T., and then the Matthews and Nylander extensions.

The Hail Mary here is Marleau somehow agreeing to move. But you can only make the offer, he decides.

The planning has to involve the idea he stays.

Thanks for the breakdown. No doubt it’s tight and I know they’re going to lose someone... But I’ll just wait and see who? It’s Dubas’ mess, not mine.


Honestly, I think they’ve got a trick up their sleeve with Marleau. Biggest problem is that they bumped the magician for his very, very green prodigy.

 

[Pookie]

Trading Kadri right now would be dumb unless we have a centre option of equal talent at a better salary. Please tell me where we'll find that.

You won’t. See above.

Have you got options for Kappy, Hyman, Brown, AJ, Gardiner and Hainsey ALL at league minimum salary AND trust Dubas to get Marner at 10.7?

Because that’s the cost to keep Kadri.

 

[sparxx87]

You won’t. See above.

Have you got options for Kappy, Hyman, Brown, AJ, Gardiner and Hainsey ALL at league minimum salary AND trust Dubas to get Marner at 10.7?

Because that’s the cost to keep Kadri.

Now you’re just talking crazy.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Thanks for the breakdown. No doubt it’s tight and I know they’re going to lose someone... But I’ll just wait and see who? It’s Dubas’ mess, not mine.


Honestly, I think they’ve got a trick up their sleeve with Marleau. Biggest problem is that they bumped the magician for his very, very green prodigy.

Lou was/is a magician?
Every team goes through this - keeping some, letting others go for cap issues. Ok most teams

 

[kb]

There are pros and cons to all of the options. And you don’t need to know what each wants just yet. You know Marner’s range and his ask.

But simple math is this.

We have 8.8M in cap space if Gardiner and Hainsey walk. They need to be replaced. With a league minimum replacement (700k) per, we now have 8.8-1.4 or 7.4 to sign Kappy, AJ and Marner.

If we take a bare bones scenario and let AJ, Kappy also walk and replace with league minimum we gain $100k back.

So 7.5 to sign Marner.

Let’s do the popular move and trade Brown. That gives us 2.1M or 9.6M to sign Marner.

But we also need to spend 700k on Brown’s replacement now. So 8.9. To sign Marner.

That’s just not enough.

Hyman? 2.5 in savings but another 700k in replacement and we are getting really close. 10.7 available.

Our roster now has 6 guys making league minimum. No Kappy, AJ, Brown or Hyman.

But we’ve got Kadri.

And that assumes Marner takes 10.7.

Or move Kadri. Get a net of 3.8 to give 12.6 to play with. 1.4 goes to the blue line so 11.2 is left.

Brown has to go as well. That’s 12.9. That may be enough to keep Kapanen and Marner.

You just have to go with what gives you the best possible roster out of all the options.

—-
Completely agree that this mess was created with the Marleau contract, then J.T., and then the Matthews and Nylander extensions.

The Hail Mary here is Marleau somehow agreeing to move. But you can only make the offer, he decides.

The planning has to involve the idea he stays.

Well, the $5.3 million of LTIR was never mentioned. Makes it $14.1 million of space, not $8.8 million.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

You won’t. See above.

Have you got options for Kappy, Hyman, Brown, AJ, Gardiner and Hainsey ALL at league minimum salary AND trust Dubas to get Marner at 10.7?

Because that’s the cost to keep Kadri.

Like...what? Gardiner and Hainsey are as good as gone and that has nothing to do with Kadri. Hyman and Brown are signed past the hump when Marleau is off the books. I'd keep Kadri over either one of Kapannen or Johnsson, maybe even both combined depending on their salary demands.

 

[sparxx87]

Lou was/is a magician?
Every team goes through this - keeping some, letting others go for cap issues. Ok most teams

Yes.

While just an opinion, I don’t believe there was ever any intention of Marleau playing his 3rd year in Toronto. I guess we’ll see

ALSO, while @Pookie had a pretty comprehensive breakdown, it doesn’t include LTIR. While I don’t crunch numbers, it was always my understanding that you could get away with only losing one of Kapanen or Johnsson.

 

[ToneDog]

I haven't forgotten anything, I'm not turning on anyone and in case you're not aware, I've been one of Kadri's biggest boosters here over the years and I've defended him when others been dumping on him. That doesn't mean I'm now going to turn a blind eye to the fact that he can't control himself, has gotten booted from the playoffs two years in a row and we simply can't count on the guy. Regular season is nice but playoffs are what it's all about and getting suspended two years in a row in the playoffs takes a huge chunk off your value, do you not see that? I'm not saying get rid of him no matter what, I'm just saying that his value has taken a huge hit and if a good trade offer comes along, I'm about a 100 times more willing to listen than I was before.

I love Kadri, I always have but I gotta put the team first.

How long will Kadri's next playoff suspension be ? You gotta move a player when the time is right (see Clark for Sundin deal).

I feel we need to make at least one significant trade for a RHD this summer. Since the end of last season Dubas has pretty much stayed the course. Signed Tavares to negate the losses of Bozak, JVR, and Leo and added Muzzin. IMO one of Kadri or Nylander needs to go in order to strengthen our D. AJ and Kappy will not return as much. If Dubas can find a "Kuraly" type #3C (Tanev or Acciari ??) then I would move Kadri before Nylander so we can go with AM/WN and JT/MM on our top two lines.

 

[robertmac43]

Brett Ritchie sounds like a good add for the bottom 6.

6 points in 53 games Brett Ritchie? The + in the deal better be huge

 

[PromisedLand]

This was from a Kadri trade thread but Ferris hit the nail on the head.

dumb and Dubas go hand in hand

 

[ShaneFalco]

The only thing I know is that I’d feel a lot better about this if Lou was driving. Robin hasn’t driven the batmobile before, and from the looks of things, he can’t really see over the wheel. A poor perspective, I guess you’d say.

Still don't get the fascination with Lou. Signed Marleau, Zaitsev, Komarov, Nelson for 6 mill...... never addressed RHD here. Traded away 2nds for 20 game 4th line C's. But somehow he'd be a master negotiator with Nylander, Marner and Matthews

 

[Gary Nylund]

How long will Kadri's next playoff suspension be ? You gotta move a player when the time is right (see Clark for Sundin deal).

Will he be suspended again? How long will the suspension be for? Will it happen again in the playoffs?

It's like having an axe hanging over our head. They should have given him help with anger management or WE over the last season, if they didn't that was dumb, if they did and it didn't take, that's unfortunate. Either way, we're probably better off without this distraction on our team.

I feel we need to make at least one significant trade for a RHD this summer. Since the end of last season Dubas has pretty much stayed the course. Signed Tavares to negate the losses of Bozak, JVR, and Leo and added Muzzin. IMO one of Kadri or Nylander needs to go in order to strengthen our D. AJ and Kappy will not return as much. If Dubas can find a "Kuraly" type #3C then I would move Kadri before Nylander so we can go with AM/WN and JT/MM on our top two lines.

I'm with you. I don't want to give him away but from the main boards it seems like there are a lot of people who would love to have Kadri on their team. Give us a decent price and I'm ready to move on.