Salary Cap: Nazem “Suspension” Kadri – Cap casualty?

[Budsfan]

So the idea is that the Leafs' should trade an asset when their value is low because.....

Your suggesting we keep a player that cant play 3rd line centre, is a loose cannon and God knows what he is going to do next, that has taken himself out of the playoffs the past two seasons with suspensions and we have had to scramble to use a player not used to playing there and only because he has a 4.5 mill contract that you deem a valuable asset?
He is not irreplaceable why?
Trade him because he is a detriment to the team and could bring back a player in a trade, we can use and rely on.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Kadri has been suspended many times. Say "just" twice in the playoffs if you like but considering how few playoff games he's been involved in, twice is a LOT and only continues the pattern that's been well established in the regular season.

Since you’ve apparently picked out a pattern (two of anything isn’t one) when will his next suspension be? Can you even guarantee he’ll be suspended at all? What sort of odds are you placing? There may be some bets for you and I to make.

The ‘noise’ I refer to is that from the media and fans. They have a job to do, but it doesn’t always include being fair, objective, or even accurate.

It's more than twice, did you miss what I posted earlier? If you did, see above, I put it there again, just for you.

Nobody can say what the future will bring but considering his history, Kadri is likely to get suspended again some point. Maybe he will and maybe he won't but the odds of him getting suspended again next season are much greater than are the odds of other Leafs getting suspended like say Rielly, Hyman, Marner (I could give you many more names if you need them). If you disagree then I agree, you and I may have some bets to make.

Absolutely don't want to give him away. But I just hit the same point you are at last year after the playoffs

I wish I knew what steps (if any) our management team took to ensure this wouldn't happen again. Anger management courses or whatever, I'd be really curious to know if they did anything. Did they even sit him down before the playoffs and tell him how important it was for him to stay in control of him emotions? If not then they really blew it.

 

[Jeypic]

I’ll tell you what.. had Kadri not been suspended, and rather helped us beat boston, and was currently helping us win in the Stanley cup finals.. his trade value would be much higher then it is right now.

So why does everyone want to sell low? You seriously think lightnings gonna strike in the same spot 3 times in a row?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Kadris value is as low as it will ever be right now. He just had back to back suspensions in the playoffs. That is pretty flukey. Definitely other gm’s are calling Dubas right now hoping he’ll sell low.

You're almost certainly wrong. A big part of his value is his contract which has 3 years left on it. A year from now he'll only have 2 years left so his value does down. Two years from now he'll only have one year left so again, his value goes down. And if he gets suspended again, his value once again, goes down. And if he should get suspended again in the playoffs, his value will plummet to near zero.

Maybe his value goes up, maybe it goes down. But it's entirely possible that his value will never again be as high as it is today.

They aren’t a fluke.. they are extremely fresh examples of his questionable character. Which is why I’m not paying full price for him. (If i were a gm)

Do i think he’s gonna get suspended next playoffs? No. So thanks for selling him to me low Dubas .

Low is a relative term obviously. I wouldn't give him away but if someone wants to make an offer, I'd absolutely listen. A year ago I was saying he's one of the least likely Leafs to be traded, today I'd say he's one of the most likely to be traded.

 

[sparxx87]

It's more than twice, did you miss what I posted earlier? If you did, see above, I put it there again, just for you.

Nobody can say what the future will bring but considering his history, Kadri is likely to get suspended again some point. Maybe he will and maybe he won't but the odds of him getting suspended again next season are much greater than are the odds of other Leafs getting suspended like say Rielly, Hyman, Marner (I could give you many more names if you need them). If you disagree then I agree, you and I may have some bets to make.



I wish I knew what steps (if any) our management team took to ensure this wouldn't happen again. Anger management courses or whatever, I'd be really curious to know if they did anything. Did they even sit him down before the playoffs and tell him how important it was for him to stay in control of him emotions? If not then they really blew it.

So you want to trade Kadri because he might get suspended next year in the playoffs? ... despite that never happening before in the history of the game?

Wanna bet on that one?

 

[Gary Nylund]

I’ll tell you what.. had Kadri not been suspended, and rather helped us beat boston, and was currently helping us win in the Stanley cup finals.. his trade value would be much higher then it is right now.

If this if that, what's the point? Should we base Kadri's value on reality on on what's happened in this fantasy world of yours?

So why does everyone want to sell low? You seriously think lightnings gonna strike in the same spot 3 times in a row?

I never want to sell low, I doubt anyone else does either.

So you want to trade Kadri because he might get suspended next year in the playoffs? ... despite that never happening before in the history of the game?

Wanna bet on that one?

So Kadri's never been suspended in the playoffs?

I think your emotions are getting in the way of understanding what you're reading and writing. It might be time to take a break, get some fresh air and perhaps when you return, you'll able to express yourself in a way that makes some sense.

I notice you didn't comment on my saying that Kadri is much more likely to get suspended that other players on our team, gee I wonder why.

 

[Jeypic]

You're almost certainly wrong. A big part of his value is his contract which has 3 years left on it. A year from now he'll only have 2 years left so his value does down. Two years from now he'll only have one year left so again, his value goes down. And if he gets suspended again, his value once again, goes down. And if he should get suspended again in the playoffs, his value will plummet to near zero.

Maybe his value goes up, maybe it goes down. But it's entirely possible that his value will never again be as high as it is today.



Low is a relative term obviously. I wouldn't give him away but if someone wants to make an offer, I'd absolutely listen. A year ago I was saying he's one of the least likely Leafs to be traded, today I'd say he's one of the most likely to be traded.

Lol wow. I hope you at least got the point...

His recent suspension lowers his value.

If in a year from now we are stanley cup champions with him being a huge part, his value goes way up. (Coulda been this year.. even if the suspension was 1 game less maybe)

Buy low. Sell High.

Don’t be an idiot.

 

[Jeypic]

If this if that, what's the point? Should we base Kadri's value on reality on on what's happened in this fantasy world of yours?



I never want to sell low, I doubt anyone else does either.



So Kadri's never been suspended in the playoffs?

I think your emotions are getting in the way of understanding what you're reading and writing. It might be time to take a break, get some fresh air and perhaps when you return, you'll able to express yourself in a way that makes some sense.

I notice you didn't comment on my saying that Kadri is much more likely to get suspended that other players on our team, gee I wonder why.

You go take a break and get some fresh air how about? I’m fine.

 

[sparxx87]

So Kadri's never been suspended in the playoffs?

I think your emotions are getting in the way of understanding what you're reading and writing. It might be time to take a break, get some fresh air and perhaps when you return, you'll able to express yourself in a way that makes some sense.

I notice you didn't comment on my saying that Kadri is much more likely to get suspended that other players on our team, gee I wonder why.

My emotions?

You’re a Kadri ‘fan’ and want to trade him because you’re upset? And you talk about sensible? Come on, Gary.


Air couldn’t be cleaner here, actually. Thanks for your concern. I bought a cottage in December and I’m sitting here supervising my shoreline being built. Boat lift is in, most of the dock is done... Air couldn’t be cleaner and thoughts couldn’t be clearer. Thanks, Gary. Just writing that has hit some emotions. Mostly pride and joy, though.

...and when I head back to the city on Friday, the Raptors are in the finals!

 

[Gary Nylund]

Lol wow. I hope you at least got the point...

His recent suspension lowers his value.

Finally, something we can agree on.

If in a year from now we are stanley cup champions with him being a huge part, his value goes way up. (Coulda been this year.. even if the suspension was 1 game less maybe)

Buy low. Sell High.

That's a big if. Players values are always in flux, maybe Kadri's value goes up, maybe it goes down. You earlier said that Kadri's value is as low as it will ever be so you're not even allowing for the possibility that it will go down which is incredibly naive on your part.

Don’t be an idiot.

When people stoop to personal insults it's a sure sign they're out of arguments. It also makes you look like ... well, I guess I better not say what it makes you look like.

My emotions?

You’re a Kadri ‘fan’ and want to trade him because you’re upset? And you talk about sensible? Come on, Gary.

Not sure how many times this is now that you're attributing statements to me that I've never made. Do you get some sort of perverse satisfaction from arguing with yourself?

 

[sparxx87]

Finally, something we can agree on.



That's a big if. Players values are always in flux, maybe Kadri's value goes up, maybe it goes down. You earlier said that Kadri's value is as low as it will ever be so you're not even allowing for the possibility that it will go down which is incredibly naive on your part.



When people stoop to personal insults it's a sure sign they're out of arguments. It also makes you look like ... well, I guess I better not say what it makes you look like.



Not sure how many times this is now that you're attributing statements to me that I've never made. Do you get some sort of perverse satisfaction from arguing with yourself?

No, actually, I feel shame as a Toronto sports fan to be apart of a group who’re notorious for making it a tough market to play in... Fans like you are the reason for that.

I’m trying to help you realize they’ve got a good one, here. To me it’s pretty clear when you consider the ‘good’ players in the organization over the years.

The guy bleeds blue when nobody else has a pulse and your solution is to trade him to apparently make the team better, when his absence makes them worse.. That idea is completely routed in emotion and not logic when you objectively evaluate the asset that is Nazem Kadri.

Kadri is like everyone else not wearing 34, 16, 29 and 44 — if you can flip him to fill a bigger need, you do it. Otherwise, you’re assured to lose.

 

[Gary Nylund]

No, actually, I feel shame as a Toronto sports fan to be apart of a group who’re notorious for making it a tough market to play in... Fans like you are the reason for that.

I’m trying to help you realize they’ve got a good one, here. To me it’s pretty clear when you consider the ‘good’ players in the organization over the years.

The guy bleeds blue when nobody else has a pulse and your solution is to trade him to apparently make the team better, when his absence makes them worse.. That idea is completely routed in emotion and not logic when you objectively evaluate the asset that is Nazem Kadri.

Kadri is like everyone else not wearing 34, 16, 29 and 44 — if you can flip him to fill a bigger need, you do it. Otherwise, you’re assured to lose.

Kadri's been suspended many, many times and now he's been suspended two years in a row in the playoffs. That's not emotion, that's an objective fact. You wanting to keep him because he "bleeds blue", that's emotion and you accusing others of being emotional here is irony at it's finest.

And BTW, Marner has a pulse, Rielly has a pulse, Tavares has a pulse, you saying that Kadri is the only one with a pulse is nothing but ... wait for it ... emotional hysteria.

 

[sparxx87]

Kadri's been suspended many, many times and now he's been suspended two years in a row in the playoffs. That's not emotion, that's an objective fact. You wanting to keep him because he "bleeds blue", that's emotion and you accusing others of being emotional here is irony at it's finest.

So you’re still betting that he’ll be suspended next year, too? In the playoffs, I mean.

You’ve admitted your feelings (emotions) have turned through this incident? Why are you trying to go back on an admission you’ve already made? Now we have a credibility issue.


I don’t want to keep anyone. I want the team to get better, and I don’t see how you do that by taking Kadri out of your lineup for anything less than an impact defenseman.

 

[Gary Nylund]

So you’re still betting that he’ll be suspended next year, too? In the playoffs, I mean.

Here's a suggestion for you - if you want to comment on something someone said, just quote them. That way you can be sure the person actually said what you think they said and avoid making yourself look foolish.

You’ve admitted your feelings (emotions) have turned through this incident? Why are you trying to go back on an admission you’ve already made? Now we have a credibility issue.

Again, if you want to comment on something someone said, just quote them. The only issue here is your reading comprehension (or lack thereof).

I don’t want to keep anyone. I want the team to get better, and I don’t see how you do that by taking Kadri out of your lineup for anything less than an impact defenseman.

All I said is that we should be open to the idea of trading him. A defenseman sounds good but I wouldn't shut the door to other possibilities.

 

[sparxx87]

Here's a suggestion for you - if you want to comment on something someone said, just quote them. That way you can be sure the person actually said what you think they said and avoid making yourself look foolish.



Again, if you want to comment on something someone said, just quote them. The only issue here is your reading comprehension (or lack thereof).



All I said is that we should be open to the idea of trading him. A defenseman sounds good but I wouldn't shut the door to other possibilities.

Now you’re not being honest. You DID say your feelings (aka emotions) have changed on him. Now we’ve got a credibility issue.

My message is clear and my logic stands to anyone with reason. Have a great day, Gary!

 

[Gary Nylund]

Now you’re not being honest. You DID say your feelings (aka emotions) have changed on him. Now we’ve got a credibility issue.

My message is clear and my logic stands to anyone with reason. Have a great day, Gary!

What I said is that his value has gone down because the suspensions have had a negative impact on that value. That has zero to do with emotions, it's just simple logic. You're the one who keeps bringing your emotions into the discussions with "bleeds blue", "only one with a a pulse" etc.

I hope that helps.

 

[sparxx87]

What I said is that his value has gone down because the suspensions have had a negative impact on that value. That has zero to do with emotions, it's just simple logic. You're the one who keeps bringing your emotions into the discussions with "bleeds blue", "only one with a a pulse" etc.

I hope that helps.

That’s your opinion, though. Some people recognize the context of the situation and appreciate him. He needs refinement, but a lot of people will have a lot of time for Nazem Kadri. That’s as emotionless as it can get.


I bring in player emotion, and it’s important. It’s why I posted the video of the game against Washington. Kadri is IMO their emotional leader, and I say that objectively, with no emotion.

You’re having trouble making the distinction.

 

[ottomaddox]

These posters do not deserve a player like Kadri, yes he is hot headed and makes stupid decisions at times. I really do want him traded and see him put 70 plus points as a 1st or 2nd line center for another team so I can come here and troll your lame asses.

In what world is he a 70 point player? If he is a 1st or 2nd line C then why did they draft Matthews and sign Tavares?

Kadri is 28 (29 this Oct.)! Do you think he's still developing? He has maybe 3 or 4 years left before he retires! We as fans should know by now what Kadri is.

 

[Suntouchable13]

That’s your opinion, though. Some people recognize the context of the situation and appreciate him. He needs refinement, but a lot of people will have a lot of time for Nazem Kadri. That’s as emotionless as it can get.


I bring in player emotion, and it’s important. It’s why I posted the video of the game against Washington. Kadri is IMO their emotional leader, and I say that objectively, with no emotion.

You’re having trouble making the distinction.

I don't believe he can be refined anymore at age 28 or 29.

 

[sparxx87]

I don't believe he can be refined anymore at age 28 or 29.

Fair enough... But how silly would Boston look if they gave up Marchand at the same age?

Seems he was 29-30 before he was able to get it down to a science?

You think the Bruins wouldn’t LOVE Kadri on their team?

 

[Gary Nylund]

That’s your opinion, though. Some people recognize the context of the situation and appreciate him. He needs refinement, but a lot of people will have a lot of time for Nazem Kadri. That’s as emotionless as it can get.

It's not a matter of appreciating or not appreciating. I appreciate his positives but I can't ignore the negatives. You are constantly dismissing the negatives as if there are none, that's emotion.

I bring in player emotion, and it’s important. It’s why I posted the video of the game against Washington. Kadri is IMO their emotional leader, and I say that objectively, with no emotion.

You’re having trouble making the distinction.

Kadri plays with emotion which is a big part of why he's a very valuable player (when he's allowed to play of course). I agree with that 100% and nothing would make me happier than to see Kadri get the help he needs, learn how to control his emotions better and help us win the cup.

You've accused me several times of being emotional on this issue, that's different from saying Kadri plays with emotion and yes it's an easy distinction to make, you're the one who seems unable to make it.

I like to talk about hockey but all this talk about emotions is uninteresting and is getting tiresome. You'll forgive me if I don't respond to your posts for a while. Have a great day!

 

[sparxx87]

It's not a matter of appreciating or not appreciating. I appreciate his positives but I can't ignore the negatives. You are constantly dismissing the negatives as if there are none, that's emotion.



Kadri plays with emotion which is a big part of why he's a very valuable player (when he's allowed to play of course). I agree with that 100% and nothing would make me happier than to see Kadri get the help he needs, learn how to control his emotions better and help us win the cup.

You've accused me several times of being emotional on this issue, that's different from saying Kadri plays with emotion and yes it's an easy distinction to make, you're the one who seems unable to make it.

I like to talk about hockey but all this talk about emotions is uninteresting and is getting tiresome. You'll forgive me if I don't respond to your posts for a while. Have a great day!

Oh Gary, you’re just taking your afternoon nap. It’s ok, we’re all friends here.. I knew we’d be approaching that time.

Don’t forget your cream!

 

[Duke Silver]

Good god this discussion sucks.

What about Dubas, a process-oriented thinker, gives anyone the inclination he's going to trade Kadri based on emotion, for anything less than an improvement to this team?

 

[member 298589]

Good god this discussion sucks.

What about Dubas, a process-oriented thinker, gives anyone the inclination he's going to trade Kadri based on emotion, for anything less than an improvement to this team?

That thing called being a General Manager in a cap salary league. I think building a roster that is compliant to league rules is pretty much in process.

 

[Duke Silver]

That thing called being a General Manager in a cap salary league. I think building a roster that is compliant to league rules is pretty much in process.

The discussion above is about making knee jerk reactions due to emotion. None of what you said referred to that part.

I did NOT say "What about Dubas, a process-oriented thinker, gives anyone the inclination he's going to trade Kadri." It seems you missed the "based on emotion" part.