More points this season Crosby vs Ovi

[Regal]

Ovi is better as a complete player and is actually more dynamic. For several years he had a problem with stickhandling defenders. He's smarter now in those situations and is using his elite playmaking talent more. From playoffs last season-now he's been at a higher level than his 49 goal season. He's the most complete he has ever been and he is solid at every aspect of the game and his defense is pretty good.

He has expanded his game again from the Oates years and early Trotz years, and has become a much better player all around because of it. I don't think it's surprising he subsequently had his best playoffs in years and the Caps finally went all the way with an arguably worse supporting cast than other seasons. He's still not as good as Crosby in those areas though.

 

[Habs10025]

You never mentioned the playoffs in your post. And the Pens have a player who has been just as good or better in some seasons than Crosby in their playoff years. In 2016 there were actually three, maybe four (if you count Murray), Pens who were better than Crosby, even if you won't admit it.

PPG seems to be the only argument any one really has for Crosby, which is pretty telling for the "best player of his generation".

In the playoffs Crosby 160 games 66 goals 119 assists 185 pts + 22
Malkin 158 games 62 goals 103 assists 165 pts + 10

In 2 more games 20 more points The difference between the two is greater than you suggest.

If you believe Ovechkin was the reason Washington won last season . Just Wow Untrue.

 

[SlickHands]

Using your logic Brett Hull would be a top ten player of all time . The truth is no one would ever suggest that because he isn't close to being one of the top 10 players of all time despite being one of the best goal scores . Who was the better player Kurri or Messier ? Kurri was the better goal scorer but everyone knows Messier was the better player.
Who was the better player Brett Hull or Steve Yzerman ? Hull was the better goal scorer but Yzerman was the better player. Who was the better player Pavel Bure or Peter Forsberg ? Bure was the better goal scorer and Forsberg was the better player .

Crosby is the better player and Crosby is having a better career.

Poor comparisons for a whole bunch of reasons. First, your pairings are completely arbitrary and easily debatable. It can easily be argued that Bure was superior player. It's hard to even argue that Forsberg was more valuable to the Avs than Sakic or Roy. His legacy is tied to a team that was so stacked that they won the cup WITHOUT him for the final two rounds.

Hull had a short window where he was leading the NHL in goals, and that's what has ultimately hurt his legacy. He had the MVP season in the heart of those explosive years he had in St Louis. He remained a top tier scorer, but his peak was brief. Ovie, even though he peaked early in terms of the Art Ross contention, his goal scoring consistency is unlike anything the league has seen since the other Hull retired.

 

[Sam Spade]

In the playoffs Crosby 160 games 66 goals 119 assists 185 pts + 22
Malkin 158 games 62 goals 103 assists 165 pts + 10

In 2 more games 20 point difference the difference between the two is greater than you suggest.

If you believe Ovechkin was the reason Washington won last season . Just Wow Untrue.

Not for a single second, just another guy pulling on the rope.

It is pretty impressive though that Ovechkin only has five fewer goals in 39 less games.

 

[Habs10025]

Poor comparisons for a whole bunch of reasons. First, your pairings are completely arbitrary and easily debatable. It can easily be argued that Bure was superior player. It's hard to even argue that Forsberg was more valuable to the Avs than Sakic or Roy. His legacy is tied to a team that was so stacked that they won the cup WITHOUT him for the final two rounds.

Hull had a short window where he was leading the NHL in goals, and that's what has ultimately hurt his legacy. He had the MVP season in the heart of those explosive years he had in St Louis. He remained a top tier scorer, but his peak was brief. Ovie, even though he peaked early in terms of the Art Ross contention, his goal scoring consistency is unlike anything the league has seen since the other Hull retired.

Poor Ovechkin fans I feel sorry for you all.

 

[SlickHands]

In the playoffs Crosby 160 games 66 goals 119 assists 185 pts + 22
Malkin 158 games 62 goals 103 assists 165 pts + 10

In 2 more games 20 more points The difference between the two is greater than you suggest.

If you believe Ovechkin was the reason Washington won last season . Just Wow Untrue.

Malkin and Crosby have a 1 point difference in the last two cup years and Malkin was superior in their first win. Yeah, it's great that Crosby dropped nearly 20 on a shell shocked Blue Jackets team last year and that Malkin was barely fit for those playoffs, but that doesn't mean Crosby's been an objectively better playoff performer than Malkin (last year accounts for 12 of the 20 point difference. Context is important bud).

 

[SlickHands]

Poor Ovechkin fans I feel sorry for you all.

If I were a Habs fan, I wouldn't be pitying anyone else. Unless you have some first hand memories of the days when the league only had 6 teams.

 

[Regal]

I watch more games than anyone on this site I bet.

I see a hard working shift draw penalties but I don't see much correlation to a hard working shift leading to a goal five or ten shifts later. Zero ways to measure that.

I thought you had quoted the entire sentence. Even if you don't believe in wearing teams down, plays that create and maintain possession still lead to more opportunities for goals, even if you don't get a point. Zone entries, forechecking and coming up with the puck, making plays in your own zone to get the puck out, etc. The more your team has the puck and the more you do to support possession, the more likely someone on your team will score and the more likely you'll hold the other team off the board. Again, Crosby has a ridiculous 68.5% GF% 5v5 this year on a team that has a 46% GF% without him on the ice. He's killing it all over the ice this year.

 

[Fataldogg]

What does this have to do with Crosby being the clearly better playoff performer than OV. Crosby has the higher PPG in a lot more games played to boot.

There is no argument.

He is saying Crosby wouldnt have 3 Stanley Cups without him, and they probably wouldnt.

Malkin had to have a historic performance for the Penguins to capture a Cup in his Conn Smythe run.

2 Cups is still more impressive than 1 Cup, but it is still much more comparable than comparing a player with 3 and a player with 1.

If Ovechkin had a Malkin, who knows? As good as Backstrom is, and the emergence of Kuznetsov, neither are remotely comparable to Malkin.

 

[Habs10025]

If I were a Habs fan, I wouldn't be pitying anyone else. Unless you have some first hand memories of the days when the league only had 6 teams.

Noticed you didn't attack the Penguins fans and its because you know they have the better player in Crosby and there's no reason to feel sorry for them.

 

[Sam Spade]

I thought you had quoted the entire sentence. Even if you don't believe in wearing teams down, plays that create and maintain possession still lead to more opportunities for goals, even if you don't get a point. Zone entries, forechecking and coming up with the puck, making plays in your own zone to get the puck out, etc. The more your team has the puck and the more you do to support possession, the more likely someone on your team will score and the more likely you'll hold the other team off the board. Again, Crosby has a ridiculous 68.5% GF% 5v5 this year on a team that has a 46% GF% without him on the ice. He's killing it all over the ice this year.

I believe in physically wearing teams down over the course of a game or a series for sure, like actually hitting and punishing guys.

I also agree Crosby has been really good this season, best, most consistent Penguin all season.

 

[daver]

He is saying Crosby wouldnt have 3 Stanley Cups without him, and they probably wouldnt.

Malkin had to have a historic performance for the Penguins to capture a Cup in his Conn Smythe run.

2 Cups is still more impressive than 1 Cup, but it is still much more comparable than comparing a player with 3 and a player with 1.

If Ovechkin had a Malkin, who knows? As good as Backstrom is, and the emergence of Kuznetsov, neither are remotely comparable to Malkin.

I am saying that Crosby is the better per game playoff performer by producing more per game. If OV was as good as Crosby has been, maybe he has more team success.

 

[SlickHands]

Noticed you didn't attack the Penguins fans and its because you know they have the better player in Crosby and there's no reason to feel sorry for them.

Way to argue the points. Good job.

 

[daver]

Malkin and Crosby have a 1 point difference in the last two cup years and Malkin was superior in their first win. Yeah, it's great that Crosby dropped nearly 20 on a shell shocked Blue Jackets team last year and that Malkin was barely fit for those playoffs, but that doesn't mean Crosby's been an objectively better playoff performer than Malkin (last year accounts for 12 of the 20 point difference. Context is important bud).

Crosby has been the better player in three of their four Cup runs, and in three of their four SCFs. Despite a 1 point difference in their Cup years, Crosby was the clearly more valuable player.

Crosby has easily taken on the tougher matchups throughout their playoff careers including the other team's best d-pairings while being better defensively.

Context is important bud.

 

[Habs10025]

If I were a Habs fan, I wouldn't be pitying anyone else. Unless you have some first hand memories of the days when the league only had 6 teams.

Washington Capitals fans comparing their team that's won 1 time . To the Montreal Canadiens I really do feel sorry for Oveckin fans Washington Capitals fans.. If your being serious about not winning since the original 6 you know nothing about the NHL. Sorry Hope you were being sarcastic .

 

[SlickHands]

Crosby has been the better player in three of their four Cup runs, and in three of their four SCFs. Despite a 1 point difference in their Cup years, Crosby was the clearly more valuable player.

Crosby has easily taken on the tougher matchups throughout their playoff careers including the other team's best d-pairings while being better defensively.

Context is important bud.

Dude, I get the sense that 90% of your day consists of inserting Crosby's name into conversations. Your opinion and the things that you think are "clear" are by default, having been uttered by you, immediately suspect.

 

[Sam Spade]

I am saying that Crosby is the better per game playoff performer by producing more per game. If OV was as good as Crosby has been, maybe he has more team success.

Crosby/Malkin >>>>>>>>>>Ovechkin.

Also, for your own mental health don't look up how many times Crosby has led the Pens in playoff scoring as opposed to Ovechkin.

 

[daver]

Crosby/Malkin >>>>>>>>>>Ovechkin.

Also, for your own mental health don't look up how many times Crosby has led the Pens in playoff scoring as opposed to Ovechkin.

What does this have to so with my post. Are you seriously questioning whether Crosby has has more impact per game than OV has? And this is even without applying any context to their offensive contributions or all around play.

 

[Sam Spade]

What does this have to so with my post. Are you seriously questioning whether Crosby has has more impact per game than OV has? And this is even without applying any context to their offensive contributions or all around play.

Absolutely. Depends on the game doesn't it? Or do you think Crosby is just the best player in every game he plays in?

 

[daver]

Absolutely. Depends on the game doesn't it? Or do you think Crosby is just the best player in every game he plays in?

[mod] He has the higher playoff PPG which is even more impressive given the extra playoff games he has played in his career.

 

[wetcoast]

I thought you had quoted the entire sentence. Even if you don't believe in wearing teams down, plays that create and maintain possession still lead to more opportunities for goals, even if you don't get a point. Zone entries, forechecking and coming up with the puck, making plays in your own zone to get the puck out, etc. The more your team has the puck and the more you do to support possession, the more likely someone on your team will score and the more likely you'll hold the other team off the board. Again, Crosby has a ridiculous 68.5% GF% 5v5 this year on a team that has a 46% GF% without him on the ice. He's killing it all over the ice this year.

He is literally having an MVP type of season again this year as he is now tied for 9th in points.

 

[daver]

He is saying Crosby wouldnt have 3 Stanley Cups without him, and they probably wouldnt.

If you want to play the hypothetical game, it is inarguable that Crosby brings more to a team than OV does. He would put any team in a better position to win because:

- he creates more offense, period

- he creates more offense with any player on his wings which allows a team to spread its talent around

- he creates more offense while not playing an exclusively offensive role

- he creates more offense without sacrificing his defensive responsibilities

 

[412 Others]

He is saying Crosby wouldnt have 3 Stanley Cups without him, and they probably wouldnt.

Malkin had to have a historic performance for the Penguins to capture a Cup in his Conn Smythe run.

2 Cups is still more impressive than 1 Cup, but it is still much more comparable than comparing a player with 3 and a player with 1.

If Ovechkin had a Malkin, who knows? As good as Backstrom is, and the emergence of Kuznetsov, neither are remotely comparable to Malkin.

Wait... are you attempting to "deduct" the 2009 cup from Crosby?? The playoff run where he put up 32 points?? That's amazing. Well done you.

The Caps were the higher seed each time the Pens eliminated them. So the Crosby had better team support excuse is null and void.


Anyway, 3 cups > 1 cup.

 

[K Fleur]

Malkin and Crosby have a 1 point difference in the last two cup years and Malkin was superior in their first win. Yeah, it's great that Crosby dropped nearly 20 on a shell shocked Blue Jackets team last year and that Malkin was barely fit for those playoffs, but that doesn't mean Crosby's been an objectively better playoff performer than Malkin (last year accounts for 12 of the 20 point difference. Context is important bud).

The Penguins did not play the Blue Jackets in the playoffs last year. It was actually Washington who met them in the 1st round.

Crosby also has 13 points career playoff points against the Blue Jackets, not 20. For reference sake; Evgeni Malkin has 18 career playoff points against the Blue Jackets.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Crosby has been better in the playoffs than Malkin and Ovechkin. However I would say OV has clearly been the best between the 3 in the regular season.