Movies: Marvel Cinematic Universe Discussion - Part 4

Pranzo Oltranzista

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Oct 18, 2017
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So the Spider-Man discussion here got me thinking (and I don't feel like doing the actual work I should be doing). Apologies if this has come up in this thread or past threads before. We’ve all done our movie rankings, but how do you feel about each character/character’s series? (i.e. Captain America movies v. Thor movies v. Guardians movies, etc.) How would you rank them? Though it isn’t tops for me, I suspect the Avengers is going to rank highest for most. Bit of an unfair advantage there, but I get it. Individual movies may be a little unfairly penalized as well, but hey we got to work with what we have. Soooooo....

1. Captain America. Almost unfair because the 3rd really is basically an Avengers movie in all but name, but overall probably the set I like the most.

2. Spider-Man. No complaints about either movie. Balances their own stories with the greater needs of the machine nicely.

3. Guardians. The 1st is my favorite individual MCU movie, but the perfectly passable but derivitive sequel holds the duo back overall for me.

4. Ant Man. Lower key Spider-Man situation here. Two very entertaining nicely contained movies carried by a lot of winning, likable performers.

5. Avengers. The last two movies are an incredible and impressive achievement in logistics, which I mean as a sincere compliment. The first two movies aren’t that good. Sorry.

6. Iron Man. I probably underrate 1, properly rate 2 and overrate 3. Honestly I think I prefer Downey more in his cameos than as the central figure.

7. Black Panther. The best of the stand-alone movies to date.

8. Thor. Bigger version of my Guardians issue. Ragnarok might be my second favorite MCU movie. But the first two are pretty forgettable.

9. Dr. Strange. I liked it fine, but again being only one movie holds it back under these parameters.

10. The Incredible Hulk. Honestly better than you probably remember. But it’s still hard to really make an impassioned case for it.

11. Captain Marvel. I think either Brie Larson is miscast or the character is poorly written. Thor is a shining example that early problems can be worked out. But what’s been done to date just didn’t do much for me.

Let me see... I'd go:

1. Black Panther
2. Guardians
3. Spider-Man
4. Iron Man
5. Avengers
6. Captain America (I hate the first film)
7. The Incredible Hulk
8. Captain Marvel
9. Thor (first two are boring, third is cool)
10. Dr. Strange
11. Ant Man
 

NyQuil

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Jan 5, 2005
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It's hard for me to separate the characters from the films, so a ranking is a bit tricky. Additionally, within each "franchise" there is a great deal of variation.

For example, I think Robert Downey Jr.'s Tony Stark is the best character in the MCU, but the second and third of his individual films were a bit uneven (owing a lot to lack of interest in the villain IMO).

Ant Man suffers a great deal in the sequel which really didn't capture the magic and humour of the original (and a lot of the improvised dialogue apparently), so averaging them out doesn't do the "franchise" any favours. Guardians of the Galaxy was similar.

Meanwhile, the first two Thor movies were forgettable while the third one was wildly entertaining.

But I'll try anyway, in terms of how "good" the films are.

1. Captain America

Overall, very consistent. Winter Soldier is the best MCU film, Civil War was entertaining (I liked Bruhl's innovative approach to taking down the Avengers) and First Avenger was surprisingly good and touching.

2. Iron Man

I like the original 2nd best of all the films, and Robert Downey Jr., despite everything, can carry an MCU film regardless of how good it actually is. They're just fun. He makes any scene that he is in enjoyable.

3. Black Panther

They managed to pack a lot into one film, in terms of the atmosphere and setting, introducing Shuri and other characters, demonstrating T'Challa's rise to wisdom and challenge to the authority and legacy of his father, and a compelling antagonist. It had some funny moments as well.

4. Guardians of the Galaxy

The first film benefits from being such a positive surprise. I did not expect a tree and a raccoon to work. The second film did pretty well with the characterizations but the finale is just CGI overload.

5. Spider Man

Michael Keaton was great as the Vulture and I think Holland is the first live-action Spider Man that actually seems like Peter Parker. Maguire was too weird and Garfield was too mopey. I can see how some people might not like all the teen drama but I think it's a refreshing contrast and I like how they didn't rush to age him out of high school.

6. Avengers

I find it hard to evaluate "Avengers" because it's a different type of film, aside from CA: Civil War. With so many characters, it is a tricky balance. What I've found overall is that my original viewing represents peak Avengers and every subsequent watching makes it drop a bit in the standings. The time travel conceit was a pretty brilliant twist in terms of allowing the audience to revisit various moments in the MCU from different angles and perspectives.

I think if I evaluate it when factoring in the complexity of pulling it off, I might move it up to 3rd. But as standalone movies, I'd push them down a bit - sometimes there's just too much going on.

7. Ant Man

I really enjoyed the first film, it was sort of madcap and silly and the supporting performances were great all the way through. The sequel just didn't capture the magic of the first film and I'm pretty confident in dropping the franchise down.

8. Dr. Strange

I actually liked Dr. Strange a lot in the comics so I'm a bit biased. I think Cumberbatch does a good job and the Ancient One was well cast. Unfortunately, the villain is sort of bland (Vasillius? Was that his name?) and while Stephen's solution at the end was nifty, Dormammu was introduced with no real fanfare or understanding so he ended up just being a big stupid giant head in the sky. Mordo was being set up as a future rival but ended up just being a bit whiny.

I'm hopeful that the sequel pushes it up a bit.

9. Captain Marvel

Too much origin, not enough story. We don't really get a handle on the character at all. An amnesiac doesn't actually make for a very interesting person. I did like Ben Mendelsohn's turn as a good guy for a change. A lot of the humour relied on 90s references which for some reason I feel is cheating even though the soundtrack in GotG fulfills the same purpose with 80s music and somehow I give it a pass.

10. Thor

This would be much higher if it wasn't for Thor: Dark World (worst MCU film) and the so-so qualities of the first film. Thor: Ragnarok was a hoot.

11. The Incredible Hulk

I'd be interested to see Ruffalo try to carry a Hulk film. I just think he was a better and more interesting Banner. I had very little interest in the Norton and Bana films.
 
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EXTRAS

Registered User
Jul 31, 2012
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What if they had animated films similar to the Spider-Man spiderverse film, where t'challa's blackpanther story is carried on? It could be pretty cool.
 

barriers

Registered User
Feb 10, 2020
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Has War Machine ever had a great/notable solo run in the comics though? The Punisher's time in the suit doesn't count. Say what you will about the character Hawkeye but Matt Fraction/David Aja's run (that the show looks to be based off) is, in my opinion, the best series Marvel has put out in the past decade.
 

NyQuil

Big F$&*in Q
Jan 5, 2005
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Ottawa, ON
You cast someone young enough to carry the franchise for 10-12 years, not a 51 year old. ;)

I just think it would be funny if old Rhodes takes over Wakanda.

Terrence-Howard-Empire.jpg
 

Shockmaster

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Sep 11, 2012
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Coogler wrote the script for BP 2 with Boseman in mind. The fact that they're going to start shooting in July indicates he hasn't rewrote it.

I think the "don't re-cast T'Challa" crowd is based off an emotional response so soon after Boseman's death, which is understandable. As time goes by, emotion generally gets factored into such decisions less and less. How people may feel about T'Challa being re-cast the day after Boseman passed or even right now may not be the same in 2022. It wouldn't surprise me if Marvel came to the realization that killing off T'Challa off-screen and passing the Black Panther mantle on to Shuri could eventually backfire.
 
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Jussi

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Feb 28, 2002
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I think the "don't re-cast T'Challa" crowd is based off an emotional response so soon after Boseman's death, which is understandable. As time goes by, emotion generally gets factored into such decisions less and less. How people may feel about T'Challa being re-cast the day after Boseman passed or even right now may not be the same in 2022. It wouldn't surprise me if Marvel came to the realization that killing off T'Challa off-screen and passing the Black Panther mantle on to Shuri could eventually backfire.

These people also ignore everything Boseman said in multiple interviews about the importance of the character of T'Challa. To him the character was bigger than him. He was just one guy playing him.

Like I've said before, I'd have no objections of Shuri becoming Black Panther in the future, but the character in the movies simply isn't at that point yet.
 
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Jussi

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Feb 28, 2002
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Glad you cleared that up. The little I read about that rumor seemed filled with biased hatred for the lady.

Sites like that and Youtube channels like The Quartering, Geeks+Gamers, Nerdrotic etc. have been spreading disinformation about her since the beginning. They literally get click and make money by posting multiple videos of her. Just look at the ratio of likes and dislikes for her first Youtube video on her own channel. Curiously enough, they disappeared after that. I guess playing Animal Crossing can turn haters into fans. :laugh:
 

Shockmaster

Registered User
Sep 11, 2012
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These people also ignore everything Boseman said in multiple interviews about the importance of the character of T'Challa. To him the character was bigger than him. He was just one guy playing him.

Like I've said before, I'd have no objections of Shuri becoming Black Panther in the future, but the character in the movies simply isn't at that point yet.

Agreed. If you watched his interviews when Black Panther came out, in no way did he come off as a guy that would think "If I die then no one can ever play this character again!"
 
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