Confirmed Trade: [LAK/TOR] Jake Muzzin for 2019 1st round pick, Sean Durzi, and Carl Grundstrom - Part II

[Rob Brown]

That's not what anyone is saying. You are, like usual, trying to play both sides. You are in one comment raving about how good he is and then in the next refusing to give credit to the Leafs for their scouting and development.

If anything, you are derailing the thread.

Come on man, Grundstrom was nothing until he was traded, and then the Kings went to work and made him the player he is today.

 

[sxvnert]

Grundstrom has a terrific start to his NHL career,

Not surprised. Talking heads had him pegged as a 3rd liner since the draft but I'm convinced hes a 20G/30A type second liner.

 

[joe dirte]

Can a Leaf Fan give us a honest prospect ranking(for forwards) when he was on the leafs? Was he your top forward prospect at the time next to Bracco? 2nd?

Probably between him and Bracco yeah, for top forward. Which is probably 4th or 5th overall.

 

[hotpaws]

Can a Leaf Fan give us a honest prospect ranking(for forwards) when he was on the leafs? Was he your top forward prospect at the time next to Bracco? 2nd?

We don't have any high end forward prospects and while Bracco is more skilled his game may not translate to the NHL . Grundstrom was our best all around prospect and a safer bet so you could have listed him as 1st or 2nd best forward prospect depending on how you much faith you have in Bracco being able to make the next step .

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Not surprised. Talking heads had him pegged as a 3rd liner since the draft but I'm convinced hes a 20G/30A type second liner.

Watched a bit of the game last night. He certainly has some nice instant chemistry with Kempe. Also he is a player that does not need to score to be noticed. He drove Getzlaf crazy with his hits on Ducks. When you get a chance to acquire a player with some skill that hits and plays a heavy game. Well done LA making this trade at probably the height of Muzzin's value. They got value and then some.

 

[Slyfox]

Leafs got hosed. Muzzin isnt that great and is clearly on the backend of his career.

 

[LEBOOM]

Leafs got hosed. Muzzin isnt that great and is clearly on the backend of his career.

I wish there was another team the delusional leaf fans could cheer for.

 

[GBLeaf]

Happy to see Grundstrom start well in LA.

Gotta give to get, and we gave a good one to the Kings. But we desperately needed to get Muzzin, so fair one all round.

 

[Rob Brown]

Watched a bit of the game last night. He certainly has some nice instant chemistry with Kempe. Also he is a player that does not need to score to be noticed. He drove Getzlaf crazy with his hits on Ducks. When you get a chance to acquire a player with some skill that hits and plays a heavy game. Well done LA making this trade at probably the height of Muzzin's value. They got value and then some.

Funny, this was you back in January before the trade:

"If its a deal with the Leafs. It would take something like Kapanen or Sandlin, Liljegren would be my 3rd choice plus the 1st for Muzzin. Otherwise the Kings can look at other offers they may be better."

"But you may be one that is fantasizing a B prospect is getting Muzzin when quality D men are scarce and in high demand at the TDL."

"Kings need to up their speed in their fwd group. I can see them insisting on Kapanen + the 1st for Muzzin."

So you were confident it would have to be one of the Leafs best prospects or young players, in one of Kapanen, Sandin or Liljegren because Muzzin is a solid top pairing guy that the Leafs desperately needed. You also said this in the same thread:

"I repeat this was for a impending UFA. Muzzin is signed for next season at a cap friendly number, and he is also a #1 pairing at worst top #2 pairing guy on a contender. "

You have since backpedaled:

"The thing I never realized is just how slow Muzzin can be. Yeah, you nailed it. When the trade happened, some people were quick to chest pump."

And this was called out by a Leafs fan (Liferleafer) before the trade even went down:

"Calling it right now....if the Leafs trade for Muzzin, you will be in the thread saying 2 things:

1. No matter what we trade for him, you will say we lost the trade.

2. The minute the deal is done, you will be calling Muzzin a terrible addition and nothing more than a #4 defender."

So, in summary, you were more than confident that the Kings would demand someone like Kapanen because the Leafs were desperate and Dubas would get backed into a corner. You were not thinking of Grundstrom as a suitable option at all, yet now he's amazing and Muzzin is slow and no good, and Leafs fans were too quick to pump their chest and be happy about the trade. Nothing new.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Leafs got hosed. Muzzin isnt that great and is clearly on the backend of his career.

he's actually made Zaitsev look like a NHL player recently, which is no small feat

incredible how everyone hates whoever Zaitsev is playing with, wonder why

 

[TheDoldrums]

Funny, this was you back in January before the trade:

"If its a deal with the Leafs. It would take something like Kapanen or Sandlin, Liljegren would be my 3rd choice plus the 1st for Muzzin. Otherwise the Kings can look at other offers they may be better."

"But you may be one that is fantasizing a B prospect is getting Muzzin when quality D men are scarce and in high demand at the TDL."

"Kings need to up their speed in their fwd group. I can see them insisting on Kapanen + the 1st for Muzzin."

So you were confident it would have to be one of the Leafs best prospects or young players, in one of Kapanen, Sandin or Liljegren because Muzzin is a solid top pairing guy that the Leafs desperately needed. You also said this in the same thread:

"I repeat this was for a impending UFA. Muzzin is signed for next season at a cap friendly number, and he is also a #1 pairing at worst top #2 pairing guy on a contender. "

Yikes. Nice find.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Funny, this was you back in January before the trade:

"If its a deal with the Leafs. It would take something like Kapanen or Sandlin, Liljegren would be my 3rd choice plus the 1st for Muzzin. Otherwise the Kings can look at other offers they may be better."

"But you may be one that is fantasizing a B prospect is getting Muzzin when quality D men are scarce and in high demand at the TDL."

"Kings need to up their speed in their fwd group. I can see them insisting on Kapanen + the 1st for Muzzin."

So you were confident it would have to be one of the Leafs best prospects or young players, in one of Kapanen, Sandin or Liljegren because Muzzin is a solid top pairing guy that the Leafs desperately needed. You also said this in the same thread:

"I repeat this was for a impending UFA. Muzzin is signed for next season at a cap friendly number, and he is also a #1 pairing at worst top #2 pairing guy on a contender. "

You have since backpedaled:

"The thing I never realized is just how slow Muzzin can be. Yeah, you nailed it. When the trade happened, some people were quick to chest pump."

And this was called out by a Leafs fan (Liferleafer) before the trade even went down:

"Calling it right now....if the Leafs trade for Muzzin, you will be in the thread saying 2 things:

1. No matter what we trade for him, you will say we lost the trade.

2. The minute the deal is done, you will be calling Muzzin a terrible addition and nothing more than a #4 defender."

So, in summary, you were more than confident that the Kings would demand someone like Kapanen because the Leafs were desperate and Dubas would get backed into a corner, you were not thinking of Grundstrom as a suitable option at all, yet now he's amazing and Muzzin is slow and no good and Leafs fans were too quick to pump their chest and be happy about the trade. Nothing new.

I think the Kings did very well here given what I have seen from Muzzin with the Leafs, he has had good games, and he has had some bad ones, tonight will be a good test for him against TB. If they could not get Kapanen, which they probably tried to, they got the best fwd prospect in the Leafs system. Grundstrom. IMO I don't believe think Lilegren was ever on the Kings radar. He is far too inconsistent. Watched him yesterday, was not noticeable at all in a AHL game against Bridgeport.

So if you are asking me, had the Kings got Kapanen/Durzi/And a First would have been better? Sure, but as McCurdy tweeted. The Price was very high. And I agree. Grundstrom/Durzi/And a First is looking like LA did just fine.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

Watched a bit of the game last night. He certainly has some nice instant chemistry with Kempe. Also he is a player that does not need to score to be noticed. He drove Getzlaf crazy with his hits on Ducks. When you get a chance to acquire a player with some skill that hits and plays a heavy game. Well done LA making this trade at probably the height of Muzzin's value. They got value and then some.

What the hell is Toffoli doing there? lol

 

[Rob Brown]

I think the Kings did very well here. If they could not get Kapanen, which they probably tried to, they got the best fwd prospect in the Leafs system. Grundstrom. IMO I don't believe think Lilegren was ever on the Kings radar. He is far too inconsistent. Watched him yesterday, was not noticeable at all in a AHL game against Bridgeport.

So if you are asking me, had the Kings got Kapanen/Durzi/And a First would have been better? Sure, but as McCurdy tweeted. The Price was very high. And I agree. Grundstrom/Durzi/And a First is looking like LA did just fine.

I agree that it was a fine package. I have said that all along.

But you completely missed the point of my post. You consistently contradict yourself. You insisted it would just have to be one of Kapanen, Sandin and Liljegren (now you are saying that Timothy was never on the radar, okay) because Muzzin was a top pairing guy and because Dubas was desperate. You never mentioned Grundstrom once but are now bragging about him in multiple threads even though he wasn't on your radar at all. In your eyes, Muzzin was a top pairing guy worthy of a McDonagh return, but now that the trade is done he's slow. Like I said it's nothing new for you.

 

[Slyfox]

he's actually made Zaitsev look like a NHL player recently, which is no small feat

incredible how everyone hates whoever Zaitsev is playing with, wonder why

He hasn't made Zaitsev look good.
Check out @NathanKanter11’s Tweet:

 

[Gary Nylund]

Funny, this was you back in January before the trade:

"If its a deal with the Leafs. It would take something like Kapanen or Sandlin, Liljegren would be my 3rd choice plus the 1st for Muzzin. Otherwise the Kings can look at other offers they may be better."

"But you may be one that is fantasizing a B prospect is getting Muzzin when quality D men are scarce and in high demand at the TDL."

"Kings need to up their speed in their fwd group. I can see them insisting on Kapanen + the 1st for Muzzin."

So you were confident it would have to be one of the Leafs best prospects or young players, in one of Kapanen, Sandin or Liljegren because Muzzin is a solid top pairing guy that the Leafs desperately needed. You also said this in the same thread:

"I repeat this was for a impending UFA. Muzzin is signed for next season at a cap friendly number, and he is also a #1 pairing at worst top #2 pairing guy on a contender. "

You have since backpedaled:

"The thing I never realized is just how slow Muzzin can be. Yeah, you nailed it. When the trade happened, some people were quick to chest pump."

And this was called out by a Leafs fan (Liferleafer) before the trade even went down:

"Calling it right now....if the Leafs trade for Muzzin, you will be in the thread saying 2 things:

1. No matter what we trade for him, you will say we lost the trade.

2. The minute the deal is done, you will be calling Muzzin a terrible addition and nothing more than a #4 defender."

So, in summary, you were more than confident that the Kings would demand someone like Kapanen because the Leafs were desperate and Dubas would get backed into a corner. You were not thinking of Grundstrom as a suitable option at all, yet now he's amazing and Muzzin is slow and no good, and Leafs fans were too quick to pump their chest and be happy about the trade. Nothing new.

The Winter Soldier is the most predictable poster here and is also consistently comedy gold.

I agree that it was a fine package. I have said that all along.

But you completely missed the point of my post. You consistently contradict yourself. You insisted it would just have to be one of Kapanen, Sandin and Liljegren (now you are saying that Timothy was never on the radar, okay) because Muzzin was a top pairing guy and because Dubas was desperate. You never mentioned Grundstrom once but are now bragging about him in multiple threads even though he wasn't on your radar at all. In your eyes, Muzzin was a top pairing guy worthy of a McDonagh return, but now that the trade is done he's slow. Like I said it's nothing new for you.

All standard for this wannabe comedian. He's almost always wrong, yet I've never once seem admit he's wrong even when it's spelled out for him as clear as can be. Some people never change.

 

[joe dirte]

He hasn't made Zaitsev look good.
Check out @NathanKanter11’s Tweet:

so they both don't show well, and get significantly worse, with each other.

Sounds like a pretty good argument to keep them apart.

 

[RoadWarrior]

We don't have any high end forward prospects and while Bracco is more skilled his game may not translate to the NHL . Grundstrom was our best all around prospect and a safer bet so you could have listed him as 1st or 2nd best forward prospect depending on how you much faith you have in Bracco being able to make the next step .

Sandin is the best prospect. Grundstrom was the best all around forward prospect but Bracco is the most skilled.

Grundstrom projects as a middle six winger who chips in on offense. Like a Leo Komarov.

 

[YP44]

still see this deal as a potential win/win. 2 goals by grundstrom and Muzzin adapting to a system are not going to change that yet for me.

 

[TheDoldrums]

He hasn't made Zaitsev look good.
Check out @NathanKanter11’s Tweet:

so Muzzins CF% without Zaitsev is ~55% and I'm supposed to think he isn't that great? Strange argument. But by recently I literally meant the last game against Edmonton, which was as good as I've seen Zaitsev play since his rookie year

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I agree that it was a fine package. I have said that all along.

But you completely missed the point of my post. You consistently contradict yourself. You insisted it would just have to be one of Kapanen, Sandin and Liljegren (now you are saying that Timothy was never on the radar, okay) because Muzzin was a top pairing guy and because Dubas was desperate. You never mentioned Grundstrom once but are now bragging about him in multiple threads even though he wasn't on your radar at all. In your eyes, Muzzin was a top pairing guy worthy of a McDonagh return, but now that the trade is done he's slow. Like I said it's nothing new for you.

No you are missing the point. I think a lot of people overrated how good Muzzin was prior to the trade. But McCurdy warned those that Muzzin was not as good as he once was. "Price was high". LA Kings fans were spot on, Muzzin is a polarizing player. He can be the Kings best D man one game, and he can look like Jake Gardiner another game. Bottom line is Kings got terrific return now more have seen Muzzin over a stretch of games. West coast players are always more chalenging following. If you are a Kings fan, you are happy to have traded Muzzin at his highest value for what is looking like a great return.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I agree that it was a fine package. I have said that all along.

But you completely missed the point of my post. You consistently contradict yourself. You insisted it would just have to be one of Kapanen, Sandin and Liljegren (now you are saying that Timothy was never on the radar, okay) because Muzzin was a top pairing guy and because Dubas was desperate. You never mentioned Grundstrom once but are now bragging about him in multiple threads even though he wasn't on your radar at all. In your eyes, Muzzin was a top pairing guy worthy of a McDonagh return, but now that the trade is done he's slow. Like I said it's nothing new for you.

No you are missing the point. I think a lot of people overrated how good Muzzin was prior to the trade. But McCurdy warned those that Muzzin was not as good as he once was. "Price was high". LA Kings fans were spot on, Muzzin is a polarizing player. He can be the Kings best D man one game, and he can look like Jake Gardiner another game. Bottom line is Kings got terrific return now more have seen Muzzin over a stretch of games. West coast players are always more chalenging following. If you are a Kings fan, you are happy to have traded Muzzin at his highest value for what is looking like a great return.

 

[Rob Brown]

No you are missing the point. I think a lot of people overrated how good Muzzin was prior to the trade. But McCurdy warned those that Muzzin was not as good as he once was. "Price was high". LA Kings fans were spot on, Muzzin is a polarizing player. He can be the Kings best D man one game, and he can look like Jake Gardiner another game. Bottom line is Kings got terrific return now more have seen Muzzin over a stretch of games. West coast players are always more chalenging following. If you are a Kings fan, you are happy to have traded Muzzin at his highest value for what is looking like a great return.

I'm missing the point? You literally said he was a top pairing guy and now you are saying he's overrated by a lot of people? So did you overrate him, too?

I'm missing the point? You insisted that it would take one of Sandin, Kapanen or Liljegren, and it didn't. If you thought it would take one of those three guys, how is the return that they got the highest value? What are you talking about?

Face it, you were confident that the return would be something that it wasn't. No need to act like you discovered Grundstrom and you are his biggest fan now. You didn't mention him a single time in the thread that I got all these quotes from.

 

[joe dirte]

still see this deal as a potential win/win. 2 goals by grundstrom and Muzzin adapting to a system are not going to change that yet for me.

Muzzin actually has 2 goals with the Leafs as well.

 

[joe dirte]

No you are missing the point. I think a lot of people overrated how good Muzzin was prior to the trade. But McCurdy warned those that Muzzin was not as good as he once was. "Price was high". LA Kings fans were spot on, Muzzin is a polarizing player. He can be the Kings best D man one game, and he can look like Jake Gardiner another game. Bottom line is Kings got terrific return now more have seen Muzzin over a stretch of games. West coast players are always more chalenging following. If you are a Kings fan, you are happy to have traded Muzzin at his highest value for what is looking like a great return.

yes, McCurdy was absolutely right when he said Muzzin was "very, very good". He's been nothing short of fantastic, and it's been great having him on the Leafs while they play an exciting brand of winning hockey.