Confirmed Trade: [LAK/TOR] Jake Muzzin for 2019 1st round pick, Sean Durzi, and Carl Grundstrom - Part II

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

so Muzzins CF% without Zaitsev is ~55% and I'm supposed to think he isn't that great? Strange argument. But by recently I literally meant the last game against Edmonton, which was as good as I've seen Zaitsev play since his rookie year

Muzzin is great. Zaitsev is an anchor dragging him down, though

 

[zeke]

Can a Leaf Fan give us a honest prospect ranking(for forwards) when he was on the leafs? Was he your top forward prospect at the time next to Bracco? 2nd?

I had him as #1 forward prospect, #3 prospect overall (but well behind the top-2). Bracco has arguably more upside, but Grundstrom is just rock solid everywhere. Many said Grundstrom was a 3rd line upside guy but I've always seen him as a good 2-way 2nd line type.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

Glad Grundstorms doing well. That first goal is how he's going to produce at this level, goes to the hard areas and bangs away in front of the net. I think he will be a solid player. I don't think he would have gotten a shot with the Leafs this year, looks like he'll be given a quality chance to show what he can do at the NHL level in LA.

Also nice seeing the usual suspect doing the usual dance lol.

 

[joe dirte]

Muzzin is great. Zaitsev is an anchor dragging him down, though

it's gonna be funny, when the Leafs dump ziatsev, according to some he will suddenly be one of the best defensive dmen in the league.

 

[Mats26]

We don't have any high end forward prospects and while Bracco is more skilled his game may not translate to the NHL . Grundstrom was our best all around prospect and a safer bet so you could have listed him as 1st or 2nd best forward prospect depending on how you much faith you have in Bracco being able to make the next step .

Then I am surprised there wasn't more hype around this guy. He had an amazing calder run and seems to be molded for the new NHL (compact, tenacious and quick)

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Can a Leaf Fan give us a honest prospect ranking(for forwards) when he was on the leafs? Was he your top forward prospect at the time next to Bracco? 2nd?

it depends what you value more in a prospect. If you prefer the guy with more skill and a higher ceiling, it's Bracco. If you prefer the safer bet who plays a more complete game, then Grundstrom. I think it's pretty close as far as value goes

 

[zeke]

Funny, this was you back in January before the trade:

"If its a deal with the Leafs. It would take something like Kapanen or Sandlin, Liljegren would be my 3rd choice plus the 1st for Muzzin. Otherwise the Kings can look at other offers they may be better."

"But you may be one that is fantasizing a B prospect is getting Muzzin when quality D men are scarce and in high demand at the TDL."

"Kings need to up their speed in their fwd group. I can see them insisting on Kapanen + the 1st for Muzzin."

So you were confident it would have to be one of the Leafs best prospects or young players, in one of Kapanen, Sandin or Liljegren because Muzzin is a solid top pairing guy that the Leafs desperately needed. You also said this in the same thread:

"I repeat this was for a impending UFA. Muzzin is signed for next season at a cap friendly number, and he is also a #1 pairing at worst top #2 pairing guy on a contender. "

You have since backpedaled:

"The thing I never realized is just how slow Muzzin can be. Yeah, you nailed it. When the trade happened, some people were quick to chest pump."

And this was called out by a Leafs fan (Liferleafer) before the trade even went down:

"Calling it right now....if the Leafs trade for Muzzin, you will be in the thread saying 2 things:

1. No matter what we trade for him, you will say we lost the trade.

2. The minute the deal is done, you will be calling Muzzin a terrible addition and nothing more than a #4 defender."

So, in summary, you were more than confident that the Kings would demand someone like Kapanen because the Leafs were desperate and Dubas would get backed into a corner. You were not thinking of Grundstrom as a suitable option at all, yet now he's amazing and Muzzin is slow and no good, and Leafs fans were too quick to pump their chest and be happy about the trade. Nothing new.

heheh.

its amazing how many of us leafs fans get infracted and banned while this doofus just derails every single leafs thread on the boards with his trolling nonsense.

 

[zeke]

it's gonna be funny, when the Leafs dump ziatsev, according to some he will suddenly be one of the best defensive dmen in the league.

TheWinterSolider will be telling his new team how badly the leafs misused this underrated top-pair dman, that's for sure.

 

[joe dirte]

Then I am surprised there wasn't more hype around this guy. He had an amazing calder run and seems to be molded for the new NHL (compact, tenacious and quick)

yeah, he was their first or second best forward prospect, but quite frankly, the Leafs had no high end forward prospects, even before the trade. it's their weakest area - their two top prospects are both dmen, and their third is arguably a goalie that has been among the best in the CHL this year. The Leafs have nearly no good forward prospects (Bracco is nothing special either), and don't really need any right now anyway.

 

[zeke]

Then I am surprised there wasn't more hype around this guy. He had an amazing calder run and seems to be molded for the new NHL (compact, tenacious and quick)

surprised that a leafs prospect was underrated by all the "objective" hockey people?

really?

 

[X66]

Happy for both teams.

Muzzin has been great.

Happy for Grundstrom, always liked him as a prospect.

Leafs get a top pairing dman without giving up Sandin, Liljegren, Kapanen or Johnsson.

Kings get a 1st and some nice prospects in Grundstrom and Durzi.

Cheers to both.

 

[Gary Nylund]

So let us review here.

First of all, we this this quote Rob Brown dug up where soldier boy is singing Muzzin's praises and talking about what a highly rated player he is.

TWS:
"I repeat this was for a impending UFA. Muzzin is signed for next season at a cap friendly number, and he is also a #1 pairing at worst top #2 pairing guy on a contender. "

And of course now that he's a Maple Leaf, he instantly does a complete 180 turnaround.

Comedy gold once again!

No you are missing the point. I think a lot of people overrated how good Muzzin was prior to the trade. But McCurdy warned those that Muzzin was not as good as he once was. "Price was high". LA Kings fans were spot on, Muzzin is a polarizing player. He can be the Kings best D man one game, and he can look like Jake Gardiner another game. Bottom line is Kings got terrific return now more have seen Muzzin over a stretch of games. West coast players are always more chalenging following. If you are a Kings fan, you are happy to have traded Muzzin at his highest value for what is looking like a great return.

You just can not make this stuff up. Keep 'em coming TWS, do tell us more about how people were over rating Muzzin. Go on now, don't be shy. I'll be listening, I wouldn't want to miss a single word of your deep analysis.

 

[4thline]

Funny, this was you back in January before the trade:

"If its a deal with the Leafs. It would take something like Kapanen or Sandlin, Liljegren would be my 3rd choice plus the 1st for Muzzin. Otherwise the Kings can look at other offers they may be better."

"But you may be one that is fantasizing a B prospect is getting Muzzin when quality D men are scarce and in high demand at the TDL."

"Kings need to up their speed in their fwd group. I can see them insisting on Kapanen + the 1st for Muzzin."

So you were confident it would have to be one of the Leafs best prospects or young players, in one of Kapanen, Sandin or Liljegren because Muzzin is a solid top pairing guy that the Leafs desperately needed. You also said this in the same thread:

"I repeat this was for a impending UFA. Muzzin is signed for next season at a cap friendly number, and he is also a #1 pairing at worst top #2 pairing guy on a contender. "

You have since backpedaled:

"The thing I never realized is just how slow Muzzin can be. Yeah, you nailed it. When the trade happened, some people were quick to chest pump."

And this was called out by a Leafs fan (Liferleafer) before the trade even went down:

"Calling it right now....if the Leafs trade for Muzzin, you will be in the thread saying 2 things:

1. No matter what we trade for him, you will say we lost the trade.

2. The minute the deal is done, you will be calling Muzzin a terrible addition and nothing more than a #4 defender."

So, in summary, you were more than confident that the Kings would demand someone like Kapanen because the Leafs were desperate and Dubas would get backed into a corner. You were not thinking of Grundstrom as a suitable option at all, yet now he's amazing and Muzzin is slow and no good, and Leafs fans were too quick to pump their chest and be happy about the trade. Nothing new.

What an absolutely fantastic summary. Can it be stickied?

 

[Liferleafer]

heheh.

its amazing how many of us leafs fans get infracted and banned while this doofus just derails every single leafs thread on the boards with his trolling nonsense.

In fact, this thread is a perfect indication of what it's like being a Leafs fan on this board...we constantly hear "Dubas trying to lowball teams and rip them off!!"....the Dubas makes a trade that is a fair market value deal.

Kings fans; "Sad to see Muzzin go, but a fair return of youth to start the rebuild"

Leafs fans: "Don't like trading Grundy...but it's a fair price to pay to get a #2 Dman".

Both teams get what they need in a very fair hockey deal.

Fans of essentially every other team...." LOL...Doofus way overpaid for a super slow Dman derpity derp derp!!!"

I will say this....my recent decision to use the ignore feature on this site actually reminds me off the site years ago....when hockey fans would just talk hockey, not purposely troll every thread with stupidity out of some weird love/hate feelings of the Leafs. To those not using the ignore feature....i highly recommend it.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Happy for both teams.

Muzzin has been great.

Happy for Grundstrom, always liked him as a prospect.

Me too, I think almost all Leaf fans were fans of Grundstrom and Muzzin should only get better as time goes by and he adapts to a team that plays very differently than what he's used to. Seems like a good trade for both teams, classic win/win scenario.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

What the hell is Toffoli doing there? lol

Kings may have stumbled onto a good line here with Kempe centering Grundstrom and Toffoli. The Swedish sandwich line. Lol

 

[zeke]

I mean isn't there enough evidence now that The Winter Soldier is nothing more than a troll, who brings down the discourse in every thread he's involved in?

Has there ever been a clearer case of someone deserving a ban?

I've never reported anyone's posts....but maybe it's time we all reported his trolling nonsense for what it is?

 

[Liferleafer]

Funny, this was you back in January before the trade:

"If its a deal with the Leafs. It would take something like Kapanen or Sandlin, Liljegren would be my 3rd choice plus the 1st for Muzzin. Otherwise the Kings can look at other offers they may be better."

"But you may be one that is fantasizing a B prospect is getting Muzzin when quality D men are scarce and in high demand at the TDL."

"Kings need to up their speed in their fwd group. I can see them insisting on Kapanen + the 1st for Muzzin."

So you were confident it would have to be one of the Leafs best prospects or young players, in one of Kapanen, Sandin or Liljegren because Muzzin is a solid top pairing guy that the Leafs desperately needed. You also said this in the same thread:

"I repeat this was for a impending UFA. Muzzin is signed for next season at a cap friendly number, and he is also a #1 pairing at worst top #2 pairing guy on a contender. "

You have since backpedaled:

"The thing I never realized is just how slow Muzzin can be. Yeah, you nailed it. When the trade happened, some people were quick to chest pump."

And this was called out by a Leafs fan (Liferleafer) before the trade even went down:

"Calling it right now....if the Leafs trade for Muzzin, you will be in the thread saying 2 things:

1. No matter what we trade for him, you will say we lost the trade.

2. The minute the deal is done, you will be calling Muzzin a terrible addition and nothing more than a #4 defender."

So, in summary, you were more than confident that the Kings would demand someone like Kapanen because the Leafs were desperate and Dubas would get backed into a corner. You were not thinking of Grundstrom as a suitable option at all, yet now he's amazing and Muzzin is slow and no good, and Leafs fans were too quick to pump their chest and be happy about the trade. Nothing new.

My name is Liferleafer, and I endorse this post.

 

[Nizdizzle]

In fact, this thread is a perfect indication of what it's like being a Leafs fan on this board...we constantly hear "Dubas trying to lowball teams and rip them off!!"....the Dubas makes a trade that is a fair market value deal.

Kings fans; "Sad to see Muzzin go, but a fair return of youth to start the rebuild"

Leafs fans: "Don't like trading Grundy...but it's a fair price to pay to get a #2 Dman".

Both teams get what they need in a very fair hockey deal.

Fans of essentially every other team...." LOL...Doofus way overpaid for a super slow Dman derpity derp derp!!!"

I will say this....my recent decision to use the ignore feature on this site actually reminds me off the site years ago....when hockey fans would just talk hockey, not purposely troll every thread with stupidity out of some weird love/hate feelings of the Leafs. To those not using the ignore feature....i highly recommend it.

It's a never ending battle. After a not-so-quick count I'm sitting at 145 ignored users.

If people just blocked and didn't respond to folks that are clearly just trying to get a rise, we'd have much better conversation on the site.

 

[4thline]

I mean isn't there enough evidence now that The Winter Soldier is nothing more than a troll, who brings down the discourse in every thread he's involved in?

Has there ever been a clearer case of someone deserving a ban?

I've never reported anyone's posts....but maybe it's time we all reported his trolling nonsense for what it is?

30,000+ posts as a Leaf board troll, Mods know who and what he is. Better to leave him in place on people's ignore lists than have a new account floating around

 

[ijuka]

It is a heavy price to pay for a bit over 1 season of Muzzin. He walks next summer and Leafs just lost two 1st round calibre players.

I agree that it's somewhat fair, though. But I guess it just goes against my philosphy. I didn't like the Duchene trade either, even if it had been a late 1st. When you give up this much, you IMO need to get more than 1.3 years.

 

[Morbo]

Great work Rob Brown.

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

Funny, this was you back in January before the trade:

"If its a deal with the Leafs. It would take something like Kapanen or Sandlin, Liljegren would be my 3rd choice plus the 1st for Muzzin. Otherwise the Kings can look at other offers they may be better."

"But you may be one that is fantasizing a B prospect is getting Muzzin when quality D men are scarce and in high demand at the TDL."

"Kings need to up their speed in their fwd group. I can see them insisting on Kapanen + the 1st for Muzzin."

So you were confident it would have to be one of the Leafs best prospects or young players, in one of Kapanen, Sandin or Liljegren because Muzzin is a solid top pairing guy that the Leafs desperately needed. You also said this in the same thread:

"I repeat this was for a impending UFA. Muzzin is signed for next season at a cap friendly number, and he is also a #1 pairing at worst top #2 pairing guy on a contender. "

You have since backpedaled:

"The thing I never realized is just how slow Muzzin can be. Yeah, you nailed it. When the trade happened, some people were quick to chest pump."

And this was called out by a Leafs fan (Liferleafer) before the trade even went down:

"Calling it right now....if the Leafs trade for Muzzin, you will be in the thread saying 2 things:

1. No matter what we trade for him, you will say we lost the trade.

2. The minute the deal is done, you will be calling Muzzin a terrible addition and nothing more than a #4 defender."

So, in summary, you were more than confident that the Kings would demand someone like Kapanen because the Leafs were desperate and Dubas would get backed into a corner. You were not thinking of Grundstrom as a suitable option at all, yet now he's amazing and Muzzin is slow and no good, and Leafs fans were too quick to pump their chest and be happy about the trade. Nothing new.

Hahaha Awesome!
As they say "hoisted with his own petard".

If all you do is talk s*** it's not surprising that you get some on yourself.

 

[Gary Nylund]

It is a heavy price to pay for a bit over 1 season of Muzzin. He walks next summer and Leafs just lost two 1st round calibre players.

I agree that it's somewhat fair, though. But I guess it just goes against my philosphy. I didn't like the Duchene trade either, even if it had been a late 1st. When you give up this much, you IMO need to get more than 1.3 years.

Duchene's a rental, Muzzin's here for another season. I guess you could argue that he's a 2 year rental but then you could argue that every player is a rental - where do you draw the line? The Leafs could resign Muzzin, they have a longer time to sell Muzzin on the organization and they also have cap space freeing up just in time.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Great work Rob Brown.

Indeed!