Confirmed Trade: [LAK/TOR] Jake Muzzin for 2019 1st round pick, Sean Durzi, and Carl Grundstrom - Part II

[garyturner3]

Funny, this was you back in January before the trade:

"If its a deal with the Leafs. It would take something like Kapanen or Sandlin, Liljegren would be my 3rd choice plus the 1st for Muzzin. Otherwise the Kings can look at other offers they may be better."

"But you may be one that is fantasizing a B prospect is getting Muzzin when quality D men are scarce and in high demand at the TDL."

"Kings need to up their speed in their fwd group. I can see them insisting on Kapanen + the 1st for Muzzin."

So you were confident it would have to be one of the Leafs best prospects or young players, in one of Kapanen, Sandin or Liljegren because Muzzin is a solid top pairing guy that the Leafs desperately needed. You also said this in the same thread:

"I repeat this was for a impending UFA. Muzzin is signed for next season at a cap friendly number, and he is also a #1 pairing at worst top #2 pairing guy on a contender. "

You have since backpedaled:

"The thing I never realized is just how slow Muzzin can be. Yeah, you nailed it. When the trade happened, some people were quick to chest pump."

And this was called out by a Leafs fan (Liferleafer) before the trade even went down:

"Calling it right now....if the Leafs trade for Muzzin, you will be in the thread saying 2 things:

1. No matter what we trade for him, you will say we lost the trade.

2. The minute the deal is done, you will be calling Muzzin a terrible addition and nothing more than a #4 defender."

So, in summary, you were more than confident that the Kings would demand someone like Kapanen because the Leafs were desperate and Dubas would get backed into a corner. You were not thinking of Grundstrom as a suitable option at all, yet now he's amazing and Muzzin is slow and no good, and Leafs fans were too quick to pump their chest and be happy about the trade. Nothing new.

Lawyered! This post pretty much sums up TWS's life on this web site. He comes across as someone making informed and knowledgeable posts, but the digger you deep it becomes clear he's got no intention of honest debate and will go to great lengths to try and justify anything from an anti-Leafs perspective even if that means his opinion needs to do a complete 180 to make it happen.

 

[X66]

Imagine what the Leafs D would look like now without Muzzin in the line-up...

Terrific trade.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Lawyered! This post pretty much sums up TWS's life on this web site. He comes across as someone making informed and knowledgeable posts, but the digger you deep it becomes clear he's got no intention of honest debate and will go to great lengths to try and justify anything from an anti-Leafs perspective even if that means his opinion needs to do a complete 180 to make it happen.

100% this. I haven't been paying attention but I'll guarantee you that he did the exact same thing with Tavares. Apparently since the Leafs signed Tavares, he's become something of a regular on the NYI board and is talking smack about how Tavares is nothing special yadayadayada, the guy has no self-respect or sense of shame whatsoever.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

I read this as apples and oranges.

You must be kidding.

Would it help you if I said "You can have a car or you can have a mystery box that MIGHT be a car"?

 

[4thline]

Can a Leaf Fan give us a honest prospect ranking(for forwards) when he was on the leafs? Was he your top forward prospect at the time next to Bracco? 2nd?

I had him ahead of Bracco in a 3A/3B behind the two defenders.
He was majorly underrated league wide due to falling 20-30 spots and draft day and a lack of visibility behind our blue chippers, but he was always a B+/A- level prospect with a solid international resume and and overall track record that projects like a Silfverberg/Hornqvist. Solid top 6 upside, could be a 50+ point guy in the right situation

 

[X66]

I thought Grundstrom was our 3rd best prospect, our best forward prospect(although Bracco's season is making me second guess).

Sandin and Liljegren are and were slam dunk ahead of him on the prospect list.

And the Leafs were able to keep both somehow!

 

[A4T1L6]

This thread just has all the tea spilling

 

[ER89]

the winter solider is the worst poster of all time.....OF ALL TIME

 

[The List Of Jericho]

In fact, this thread is a perfect indication of what it's like being a Leafs fan on this board...we constantly hear "Dubas trying to lowball teams and rip them off!!"....the Dubas makes a trade that is a fair market value deal.

Kings fans; "Sad to see Muzzin go, but a fair return of youth to start the rebuild"

Leafs fans: "Don't like trading Grundy...but it's a fair price to pay to get a #2 Dman".

Both teams get what they need in a very fair hockey deal.

Fans of essentially every other team...." LOL...Doofus way overpaid for a super slow Dman derpity derp derp!!!"

I will say this....my recent decision to use the ignore feature on this site actually reminds me off the site years ago....when hockey fans would just talk hockey, not purposely troll every thread with stupidity out of some weird love/hate feelings of the Leafs. To those not using the ignore feature....i highly recommend it.

The ignore button is a god send, the list has grown...

 

[Frolov 6'3]

Would it help you if I said "You can have a car or you can have a mystery box that MIGHT be a car"?

No

Point is, that fans have no emotional attachment with draftpicks compared to drafted players. The 1st rounder is the main piece in this trade, not Gundstrom at this point.

Would this help you ?

 

[garyturner3]

I had him ahead of Bracco in a 3A/3B behind the two defenders.
He was majorly underrated league wide due to falling 20-30 spots and draft day and a lack of visibility behind our blue chippers, but he was always a B+/A- level prospect with a solid international resume and and overall track record that projects like a Silfverberg/Hornqvist. Solid top 6 upside, could be a 50+ point guy in the right situation

Completely agree. Given TO's lack of quality depth on LW and overall lack of grit, I was hopeful Grundstrom would find a place in our top 6 going forward so I didn't like to see him go. Would have preferred Bracco got moved in the deal instead. But of course I was happy in the end (like most Leaf fans) that they managed to pull off the trade without losing either of their best two prospects which most people didn't think was possible so Dubas deserves some credit for sure. Muzzin hasn't stood out to me so far, but that's the type of d-man he is. He's just made us a much more solid all around team and personally I think we've been playing the most complete stretch of hockey I've seen from this team in years since the trade went down.

 

[Mats26]

I had him as #1 forward prospect, #3 prospect overall (but well behind the top-2). Bracco has arguably more upside, but Grundstrom is just rock solid everywhere. Many said Grundstrom was a 3rd line upside guy but I've always seen him as a good 2-way 2nd line type.

I saw him as one of those prospects that looks like an NHL player, playing in the AHL, and just waiting for an opportunity.
On a stacked team he is a very good 3rd line player. On the Kings, give him a shot with Kempe (at 2C) and see if they produce on a regular basis.

 

[Liferleafer]

This thread just has all the tea spilling

Typical Leafs thread....nothing new.

 

[zeke]

No

Point is, that fans have no emotional attachment with draftpicks compared to drafted players. The 1st rounder is the main piece in this trade, not Gundstrom at this point.

Would this help you ?

mmm. i think Grundstrom's development and performance had already put himself at a higher value than the average 27-30th overall pick.

 

[Gary Nylund]

No

Point is, that fans have no emotional attachment with draftpicks compared to drafted players. The 1st rounder is the main piece in this trade, not Gundstrom at this point.

Would this help you ?

Oh I dunno, I think people on this board get pretty attached to their picks as well. Like with late 1st rounders there's always that hope that they'll turn into something amazing when history tells us that's rarely the case. TBH, I'm not sure Grundstrom's not worth more than the Leafs 1st round pick at this point.

 

[Bill Berg]

the winter solider is the worst poster of all time.....OF ALL TIME

The WORT?

 

[The List Of Jericho]

i can't believe this hasn't been bumped by Kings fans, so humble they are

if Grundstrom would have scored 2 in 2 for the Leafs this thread would've been overflowing by now

Durzi continues to improve his numbers as well

currently sitting at:

2018-19

Guelph Storm

OHL

17GP

8G

12A

20PTS

6PIM

+20

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

and a 1st rd pick waiting at the end of the line

Why would you bump this thread bragging when you were pumping Muzzin's tires just last month? So the guys you got back are performing well and so is Muzzin lol

 

[Frolov 6'3]

mmm. i think Grundstrom's development and performance had already put himself at a higher value than the average 27-30th overall pick.

Its a given already that LA picks around that spot ?

Kings picked Kempe not so long ago around that spot. The same for Toronto with Sandin. I see some true gems still available around 20-30 in this years draft.

 

[Raging Bull]

So Toronto actually had good prospects? Huh.

 

[Gary Nylund]

So Toronto actually had good prospects? Huh.

"Had" being the key word there.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I'm missing the point? You literally said he was a top pairing guy and now you are saying he's overrated by a lot of people? So did you overrate him, too?

I'm missing the point? You insisted that it would take one of Sandin, Kapanen or Liljegren, and it didn't. If you thought it would take one of those three guys, how is the return that they got the highest value? What are you talking about?

Face it, you were confident that the return would be something that it wasn't. No need to act like you discovered Grundstrom and you are his biggest fan now. You didn't mention him a single time in the thread that I got all these quotes from.

You sound upset with me for agreeing to what LA fans have said about Muzzin and what McCurdy have warned us. Why don't you reply to them if you disagree?

All I am saying is I can agree Muzzin can be a polarizing player. He was probably overrated prior to the trade by me since it takes a sustained amount of games in the west which is not always the easiest on the west coast.

He was good when he came in, and he was bad weeks after culminating in the Isles 6-1 loss. Is this not fair? As for first pairing D man, is Babcock using him as a 1st pairing D man? He is behind Hainsey in usage. So maybe Babcock agrees with us that think Muzzin while an upgrade to the Leafs D was overrated prior to the trade.

BTW both Friedman and Dreger both said the price would be very high for Muzzin. It was certainly not just my opinion.

And the Leafs paid it in retrospect based on what I have seen in Muzzin thus far. Good some games, but he was exposed in others. A fact many Leafs fans have said themselves.

As for Grundstrom, he was the Leafs best fwd prospect on the Marlies. The safest, with the most intangibles. Sorry if you were waiting for my complete scouting report on Leafs prospects. But you know I am a NHL prospects guy. Maybe I will start a site if you subscribe if my prospects opinions are so valuable to you, for which I have many on here since I have posted on HF.

 

[Rob Brown]

You sound upset with me for agreeing to what LA fans have said about Muzzin and what McCurdy have warned us. Why don't you reply to them if you disagree?

All I am saying is I can agree Muzzin can be a polarizing player. He was probably overrated prior to the trade by me yes, and really it takes a sustained amount of games to see why which is not always the easiest on the west coast.

He was good when he came in, and he was bad weeks after culminating in the Isles 6-1 loss. Is this not fair? As for first pairing D man, is Babcock using him as a 1st pairing D man? He is behind Hainsey in usage. So maybe Babcock agrees with us that think Muzzin while an upgrade to the Leafs D was overrated prior to the trade.

BTW both Friedman and Dreger both said the price would be very high for Muzzin. It was certainly not just my opinion.

And the Leafs paid it in retrospect based on what I have seen in Muzzin thus far. Good some games, but he was exposed in others. A fact many Leafs fans have said themselves.

As for Grundstrom, he was the Leafs best fwd prospect on the Marlies. The safest, with the most intangibles. Sorry if you were waiting for my complete scouting report on Leafs prospects. But you know I am a NHL prospects guy. Maybe I will start a site if you subscribe if my prospects opinions are so valuable to you, for which I have many on here since I have posted on HF.

I'm not upset. I just knew that if I went back to that thread from January I would find contradictory statements based on what you are posting these days, and I wasn't wrong.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I'm not upset. I just knew that if I went back to that thread from January I would find contradictory statements based on what you are posting these days, and I wasn't wrong.

There is nothing contradictory speculating on what insiders Friedman and Dreger wrote. This is a hockey forum. If I had to dig up posts, yours included, I would wager you would have what can be perceived as contradicting statements. We post to what the information is reported at each snapshot in time of trade speculation. Seeing what I see of Muzzin now, and I will also say I am open to him improving. I would say the Kings got a very good package for him. But again, why care what I think. Kings fans have said Muzzin was a polarizing player on their site. Sort of like how Gardiner is a polarizing player on the Leafs forum. Best to ask them.

 

[zeke]

There is nothing contradictory speculating on what insiders Friedman and Dreger wrote. This is a hockey forum. If I had to dig up posts, yours included, I would wager you would have what can be perceived as contradicting statements. We post to what the information is reported at each snapshot in time of trade speculation. Seeing what I see of Muzzin now, and I will also say I am open to him improving. I would say the Kings got a very good package for him. But again, why care what I think. Kings fans have said Muzzin was a polarizing player on their site. Sort of like how Gardiner is a polarizing player on the Leafs forum. Best to ask them.

 

[Kingspiracy]

I didn't like the trade to begin with and felt that Muzzin should have gotten us a real blue chipper instead of three B assets. It's starting to grow on me though given how Grundy has managed to showcase in the big league. I'm hoping this turns out like the Visnovsky trade, where we picked up two great soldiers for the better player at the time. Glad Muzz has been decent in toronto.