Value of: Jonathan Toews for CGY

[Gritty]

Toews + Seabrook + 2 2nd Round picks
Markstrom, bennett and Monahan

I also remember someone on here saying that the flames were the hawks light so this trade will kind of be even in salary. 14. 625 million going to the Hawks and 17.375 going to the Flames. Seabrook is currently on the IR too.

How could the Flames say no?!!

 

[Oilers Propagandist]

How could the Flames say no?!!

Right? I smell the sarcasm but the flames are bringing 6 cups of prestige to the dressing room. You can’t buy that.

 

[Fig]

Toews + Seabrook + 2 2nd Round picks
Markstrom, bennett and Monahan

I also remember someone on here saying that the flames were the hawks light so this trade will kind of be even in salary. 14. 625 million going to the Hawks and 17.375 going to the Flames. Seabrook is currently on the IR too.

Sets the flames back from contention for like 5 years.

 

[Oilers Propagandist]

Sets the flames back from contention for like 5 years.

Link to a picture of your crystal ball? A change of scenery can do a lot for anyone, toews will have extra motivation and Seabrook was targeted by the Oilers at one point. I personally think Seabrook will benefit the most from a change. I remember when the Oilers were gunning for him, reports were that he would be okay with moving to ‘Berta.

Flames need more players with championship pedigree, with 1 coming from Lucic already... imagine 7?

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Yeah, I'm well aware of who Toews is thanks, but what you're not understanding is that simply going from Backlund to Toews (while giving up significant assets on top of adding up to 5M to the cap) doesn't at all address the organizations actual problem. Which is, a top line offensive centre that is wholly dependent on his winger to create offensive while wilting in the playoffs.

See, Backlund on whatever line is an absolute strength for this team down the middle while Monahan is more of a weakness. Yes, Monahan scores goals but that's all he does. He doesn't drive the play, he can't carry a line or put the team on his back, he doesn't make his linemates significantly better. So the whole point of even looking into someone like Toews is to upgrade Monahan's spot, not Backlund, otherwise there's no point. And that upgrade in come in one of two ways, either directly by moving Monahan or indirectly by giving up Lucic and significant futures. So again, I'd much rather move Monahan than deplete an already shallow prospect pool.

And I'm pretty sure Toews and Kane have played fair bit with each other with the main reason behind them being separated is to spread out the offense. Unlike Monahan, both Backlund and Toews are capable of centering and carrying their own line.

I guess we can agree to disagree then. Personally if I am trading for Toews I would rather keep Monahan than Backlund. (1) because of age (2) because of redundancy. If Backlund is so much better than Monahan like you make him out to be then why isn't Backlund playing 1C?

 

[qwerty]

Toews + Seabrook + 2 2nd Round picks
Markstrom, bennett and Monahan

I also remember someone on here saying that the flames were the hawks light so this trade will kind of make them like the hawks and be sort of even in salary. 14. 625 million going to the Hawks and 17.375 going to the Flames. Seabrook is currently on the IR too.

Makes 100% sense that Jacob Markstom, fresh off his newly signed contract a week ago, would love to be traded to the Blackhawks, a team he could've signed with but didn't even consider. "It's a bold strategy Cotton, let's see if it pays off here."

 

[Fig]

Link to a picture of your crystal ball? A change of scenery can do a lot for anyone, toews will have extra motivation and Seabrook was targeted by the Oilers at one point. I personally think Seabrook will benefit the most from a change. I remember when the Oilers were gunning for him, reports were that he would be okay with moving to ‘Berta.

Flames need more players with championship pedigree, with 1 coming from Lucic already... imagine 7?

your idea basically has us running a Rittich and Domingue caliber tandem at best for a couple seasons due to the cap implications. No need for a crystal ball. No matter how good the roster in front, with a tandem like that in net there’s no hope at all to contend.

you keep saying you’re trying to make legit suggestions in these Flames threads. But it seems obvious that since you are an oiler fan, you’re actually trolling more than trying.

 

[qwerty]

I guess we can agree to disagree then. Personally if I am trading for Toews I would rather keep Monahan than Backlund. (1) because of age (2) because of redundancy. If Backlund is so much better than Monahan like you make him out to be then why isn't Backlund playing 1C?

To be fair, Backlund was the #1 center in the playoffs. He lead all centers in even strength ice time and even in the regular season it was quite close. This season, they really were a 1A-1B combination. Backlund takes on all the tough match ups and that's difficult thing to replace. Having 2 centers that can defend top lines while scoring at the same time is a tough 1-2 punch.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I love the idea of bringing in a true leader that has won it all and having a legit 2-3 years of contention. I would want to keep Backlund on the team to roll in the playoffs three solid lines.

2021 1st (or 2022)
2021 2nd (or 2022)
Jakob Pelletier
Ryan (Great defensive C who can help shelter the kids)
Lucic (This contract has to go the other way for any deal to work)

For

Toews

I really like the look of this team!

JG - Toews - Lindhom
Tkatchuk - Monahan - Mangi
Dube - Backlund - Bennett

Gio - Andersson
Hanifin - Tanev

Markstrom

Swap Gaudreau and Tkachuk for 3 reasons; just like Kane doesn't often play with Toews due to being not that compatible JG would be the same way, Tkachuk and Monahan are both below average skaters and would not pair well, Tkachuk plays a solid 2-way game not quite to the level of Hossa but still a lot better than Johnny's so he would have better synergy.

As for the trade itself, I don't think Lucic would waive to a rebuilding team, that was one of the main reason's he waived from Edmonton (not that Backlund would waive either which is why I find the trade concept very unlikely). I also don't think that works cap wise for Calgary as they are already at the ceiling and this scenario has them taking on an extra 2.6M. Either they would have to move out a more expensive contract or there would have to be retention from Chicago, however the Hawks are currently sitting at 2/3 retained contracts that last 1 and 2 years respectively.

 

[Oilers Propagandist]

your idea basically has us running a Rittich and Domingue caliber tandem at best for a couple seasons due to the cap implications. No need for a crystal ball. No matter how good the roster in front, with a tandem like that in net there’s no hope at all to contend.

you keep saying you’re trying to make legit suggestions in these Flames threads. But it seems obvious that since you are an oiler fan, you’re actually trolling more than trying.

A good BOA is good for business in the league and all of ‘Berta so of course the Flames being good is in the Oilers fans interest. Hell, even the pre playoff game between the 2 was watched by the millions and millions of hockey fans around the world. This trade would make your team great and yes, I know big save dave would be a part of that.

Makes 100% sense that Jacob Markstom, fresh off his newly signed contract a week ago, would love to be traded to the Blackhawks, a team he could've signed with but didn't even consider. "It's a bold strategy Cotton, let's see if it pays off here."

More savage things have happened, Habs traded Subban soon after committing to donate a large amount of money annually to the Montréal’s children hospital. Stop acting like things like that aren’t possible. This trade makes the Flames a contender.

 

[qwerty]

A good BOA is good for business in the league and all of ‘Berta so of course the Flames being good is in the Oilers fans interest. Hell, even the pre playoff game between the 2 was watched by the millions and millions of hockey fans around the world. This trade would make your team great and yes, I know big save dave would be a part of that.

More savage things have happened, Habs traded Subban soon after committing to donate a large amount of money annually to the Montréal’s children hospital. Stop acting like things like that aren’t possible. This trade makes the Flames a contender.

Perhaps you forgot that Jacob Markstrom owns a NMC. With all the things I mentioned, it's an absolute guarantee that he would exercise it. Also, GMs don't just target UFAs, sign them only to trade them a week later. Subban doesn't fall into this category. RFAs sign extensions and get traded all the time. Please find an example of the former.

 

[Oilers Propagandist]

Perhaps you forgot that Jacob Markstrom owns a NMC. With all the things I mentioned, it's an absolute guarantee that he would exercise it. Also, GMs don't just target UFAs, sign them only to trade them a week later. Subban doesn't fall into this category. RFAs sign extensions and get traded all the time. Please find an example of the former.

You honestly think Markstrom wouldn’t be okay leaving Calgary for Chicago? (Anywhere except southside). It’s not this big guarantee you’re making this out to be.

This board is almost all fantasy but you’re the only one putting a date on when a trade could be possible as no one said anything about a week after signing to ship him off. It’s an unlikely scenario but it would make the Flames gud. I also don’t think markstrom is as good as stated on here as he had an identical season to Koskinen.

 

[qwerty]

You honestly think Markstrom wouldn’t be okay leaving Calgary for Chicago? (Anywhere except southside). It’s not this big guarantee you’re making this out to be.

This board is almost all fantasy but you’re the only one putting a date on when a trade could be possible as no one said anything about a week after signing to ship him off. It’s an unlikely scenario but it would make the Flames gud. I also don’t think markstrom is as good as stated on here as he had an identical season to Koskinen.

I actually can't believe you're serious. I actually thought it was a joke and I was just humouring you. Truth is, if Markstrom wanted to sign with Chicago, he would've signed with them on Oct 9. He didn't even consider them an option, so no he wouldn't waive regardless of how much better Chicago is than Calgary.

I mean seriously, based on what Markstrom had to say and what Treliving had to say along with how much he targeted him and all the work he put into signing him, how is it realistic to think he'd trade him? Zero ******* chance.

 

[Oilers Propagandist]

I actually can't believe you're serious. I actually thought it was a joke and I was just humouring you. Truth is, if Markstrom wanted to sign with Chicago, he would've signed with them on Oct 9. He didn't even consider them an option, so no he wouldn't waive regardless of how much better Chicago is than Calgary.

I mean seriously, based on what Markstrom had to say and what Treliving had to say along with how much he targeted him and all the work he put into signing him, how is it realistic to think he'd trade him? Zero ******* chance.

Have you been to Chicago? If a trade were to happen to Chicago, no way he we decline to waive his NTC.

Things can sour real quick and imo it all goes back to me thinking that Markstrom is not as good as what he has shown on the Canucks. Like why is Markstrom any better last season compared to Koskinen? Markstrom is imo a ruse, as the stats show he is at best Koskinen level and at his worse he is a 1b/ good backup which is still necessary for any team to have success. The guy literally got paid for 1 good season.

The breakdown of Koskinen vs Markstrom this past season:

Koskinen vs Markstrom in 2018/2019:

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I actually can't believe you're serious. I actually thought it was a joke and I was just humouring you. Truth is, if Markstrom wanted to sign with Chicago, he would've signed with them on Oct 9. He didn't even consider them an option, so no he wouldn't waive regardless of how much better Chicago is than Calgary.

I mean seriously, based on what Markstrom had to say and what Treliving had to say along with how much he targeted him and all the work he put into signing him, how is it realistic to think he'd trade him? Zero ******* chance.

Just ignore him, he's a complete troll. He does these garbage posts in every Flames related thread. Complete waste of your time even responding to him

 

[sfvega]

I was terribly surprised to open this and see so much Backlund discussion and less Monahan discussion. It's no secret that this Calgary team needs a massive paradigm shift, lest this core continue to go nowhere. And Chicago has come out and declared a rebuild. Toews @ like 20% retained for Monahan and maybe Rittich seems like a pretty straight-forward deal. Sure, Calgary's fans aren't gonna be happy with the price, but what's the alternative? Another 1st round loss? They're where the Blues were before ROR. They need to add something to improve when it matters, and Toews' résumé in that regard is largely unparalleled.

Now, I don't actually expect Toews to move. But if he were, Calgary should be interested.

 

[qwerty]

Have you been to Chicago? If a trade were to happen to Chicago, no way he we decline to waive his NTC.

Things can sour real quick and imo it all goes back to me thinking that Markstrom is not as good as what he has shown on the Canucks. Like why is Markstrom any better last season compared to Koskinen? Markstrom is imo a ruse, as the stats show he is at best Koskinen level and at his worse he is a 1b/ good backup which is still necessary for any team to have success. The guy literally got paid for 1 good season.

The breakdown of Koskinen vs Markstrom this past season:
View attachment 373684

Koskinen vs Markstrom in 2018/2019:
View attachment 373685

I have been to Chicago, it’s my favorite American city. But that doesn’t matter, it doesn’t matter what you or I think about the city. Markstrom didn’t choose Chicago. They weren’t even close. There was opening there too with Crawford and his cap hit gone.

He wanted to be a Flame and Brad Treliving badly wanted him. In post deadline interviews, Treliving has stated that they’ve been targeting him since last year, even before this year’s exceptional season.

Even your boy Holland, despite having a supposedly “equal” goaltender already under contract as many Oiler fans already told me, was willing to throw a 7 year deal at him. That tells me a lot about what Holland actually thinks about Markstrom vs Koskinen.

I honestly don’t know why Markstrom is continually being talked about in this thread. Treliving isn’t trading him to Chicago any time soon. He called him one of the elite players of his position and has been targeting him for a while. I think he’d trade 95% of roster before trading Markstrom right now.

 

[qwerty]

I was terribly surprised to open this and see so much Backlund discussion and less Monahan discussion. It's no secret that this Calgary team needs a massive paradigm shift, lest this core continue to go nowhere. And Chicago has come out and declared a rebuild. Toews @ like 20% retained for Monahan and maybe Rittich seems like a pretty straight-forward deal. Sure, Calgary's fans aren't gonna be happy with the price, but what's the alternative? Another 1st round loss? They're where the Blues were before ROR. They need to add something to improve when it matters, and Toews' résumé in that regard is largely unparalleled.

Now, I don't actually expect Toews to move. But if he were, Calgary should be interested.

I think Treliving would absolutely be interested. He’s been looking at more and more competitive players over the last couple years and Toews is as competitive as it gets.

If Chicago is willing to take Monahan plus Rittich and a pick/prospect. I’d do that deal yesterday.

 

[Oilers Propagandist]

I have been to Chicago, it’s my favorite American city. But that doesn’t matter, it doesn’t matter what you or I think about the city. Markstrom didn’t choose Chicago. They weren’t even close. There was opening there too with Crawford and his cap hit gone.

He wanted to be a Flame and Brad Treliving badly wanted him. In post deadline interviews, Treliving has stated that they’ve been targeting him since last year, even before this year’s exceptional season.

Even your boy Holland, despite having a supposedly “equal” goaltender already under contract as many Oiler fans already told me, was willing to throw a 7 year deal at him. That tells me a lot about what Holland actually thinks about Markstrom vs Koskinen.

I honestly don’t know why Markstrom is continually being talked about in this thread. Treliving isn’t trading him to Chicago any time soon. He called him one of the elite players of his position and has been targeting him for a while. I think he’d trade 95% of roster before trading Markstrom right now.

He didn’t choose Chicago because we all know they are declining, any person trying to sign a contract mostly want’s to get paid and play on an up and coming team. Ironically enough, Markstrom would help them out while their young players develop. Regarding those interviews, it’s white noise... Markstrom got paid 6 million a season, I would say whatever too.

Holland wanted Markstrom because a 1a/1b of Koskinen and Markstrom is a great duo long term, so I wouldn’t look too deep into that. If there is an avenue to try and upgrade your team from a 38 year old 1b goalie to another 1b thats younger, you try.

The reason why he’s brought up is because of this trade idear:
Toews + Seabrook + 2 2nd Round picks
Markstrom, bennett and Monahan

I think Markstrom and Monahan (Toews replacement) would need to be in a deal regarding Toews going to the Flames. Monahan can slide into a 2c role with the hawks and both teams come out on top.

 

[Siignal]

Yeah he sucks doesnt even belong in the league. He brings nothing to the table.

Not the context at all. When you consider his cap hit and the Flames structure, there is no scenario where Toews fits.

 

[CraigsList]

Toews + Seabrook + 2 2nd Round picks
Markstrom, bennett and Monahan

I also remember someone on here saying that the flames were the hawks light so this trade will kind of make them like the hawks and be sort of even in salary. 14. 625 million going to the Hawks and 17.375 going to the Flames. Seabrook is currently on the IR too.

Dude, give it up. You have no idea how to make trade proposals.

 

[qwerty]

He didn’t choose Chicago because we all know they are declining, any person trying to sign a contract mostly want’s to get paid and play on an up and coming team. Ironically enough, Markstrom would help them out while their young players develop. Regarding those interviews, it’s white noise... Markstrom got paid 6 million a season, I would say whatever too.

Holland wanted Markstrom because a 1a/1b of Koskinen and Markstrom is a great duo long term, so I wouldn’t look too deep into that. If there is an avenue to try and upgrade your team from a 38 year old 1b goalie to another 1b thats younger, you try.

The reason why he’s brought up is because of this trade idear:
Toews + Seabrook + 2 2nd Round picks
Markstrom, bennett and Monahan

I think Markstrom and Monahan (Toews replacement) would need to be in a deal regarding Toews going to the Flames. Monahan can slide into a 2c role with the hawks and both teams come out on top.

Yes, I know. I replied to this post, the question was actually rhetorical. The point I’m making is that Markstrom isn’t going to Chicago and that’s about it. If you’re having trouble finding a scenario where a general manager trades a UFA big ticket he just signed a week ago, it’s because it has never happened. It’d be the equivalent of Vegas trading Pietrangelo for Toews. It just looks and sounds pretty damn stupid.

Markstrom was going to get paid any where he went. He selected the Flames because as he liked the fit the direction of the club. You know, the exact opposite direction Chicago is going now.

Lastly, Holland offered Markstrom a 7 year deal. Meaning he saw him as their starter for the future. Had the Oilers signed him instead, I honestly wonder if you’d be trying to peddle Markstrom out the door as well. But by all means, post a poll somewhere and see how far it gets you before it gets locked for sheer absurdity.

 

[Oilers Propagandist]

Yes, I know. I replied to this post, the question was actually rhetorical. The point I’m making is that Markstrom isn’t going to Chicago and that’s about it. If you’re having trouble finding a scenario where a general manager trades a UFA big ticket he just signed a week ago, it’s because it has never happened. It’d be the equivalent of Vegas trading Pietrangelo for Toews. It just looks and sounds pretty damn stupid.

Markstrom was going to get paid any where he went. He selected the Flames because as he liked the fit the direction of the club. You know, the exact opposite direction Chicago is going now.

Lastly, Holland offered Markstrom a 7 year deal. Meaning he saw him as their starter for the future. Had the Oilers signed him instead, I honestly wonder if you’d be trying to peddle Markstrom out the door as well. But by all means, post a poll somewhere and see how far it gets you before it gets locked for sheer absurdity.

Whoa mon, I get the comparison you’re trying to make regarding Pietrangelo getting traded after signing a big ufa contract but that is a pretty big difference between the players on the Flames and Pietrangelo for toews.

I get it, he was a fit and a big need for the flames but what happens if he flames out and become an albatross? That was my train of thought with that proposal, I honestly do not think he will live up to his contract but I guess we’ll see what happens.

Regarding your last point, I already commented on it. Trying to upgrade your team is what every GM should be looking to do. Markstrom > 38 year old Mike Smith, McDavid and Draisaitl are our Hart/Lindsay winning #1 and 1b centres so of course trying to obtainin Toews is so far off the radar for the Oilers.

 

[Flamesfan62]

This made me literally choke on my coffee, thanks for that.

 

[rosscow]

A good BOA is good for business in the league and all of ‘Berta so of course the Flames being good is in the Oilers fans interest. Hell, even the pre playoff game between the 2 was watched by the millions and millions of hockey fans around the world. This trade would make your team great and yes, I know big save dave would be a part of that.

More savage things have happened, Habs traded Subban soon after committing to donate a large amount of money annually to the Montréal’s children hospital. Stop acting like things like that aren’t possible. This trade makes the Flames a contender.

Subban never donated one cent of his own money.