Value of: Jonathan Toews for CGY

[Sinbad]

Right, but the return is still based on supply and demand which would therefore affect Toews return as well. The actual problem is over 90% of the NHL's cap space is basically used up and the majority of the remaining cap space available belongs to rebuilding teams that have zero interest in an expensive center in the post apex of his career.

Teams that may want Toews, won't be able to afford him either even with some retention. It'll likely have to be a lateral trade where Chicago takes in an equally bad contract or accept a very poor return. Honestly, any range of trade from good or bad wouldn't surprise me at all with the flat cap.

Absolutely true it is about supply and demand; the supply of players with Toews talent and resume is extremely limited. Demand; pretty much every team in NHL would want him.

Cap space would not be an issue for any team seriously interested in Toews. Even if a team is sitting with $0 cap available they can have Toews, they just have to be creative and willing to pay the price. For example, negotiate that the Hawks eat half of his cap and send players worth the remaining cap it back to the Hawks. The catch is they would have to offer up an extremely attractive combination of players, prospects and draft picks for that to happen.

For example purpose only:

Toews 50% retained and Subban to Vegas = $6.1m

Fleury to Chicago $900,000 retained = $6.1m

So, if Vegas wanted this to happen badly enough they could do it but the price would be steep. Hawks would probably want a combination of Glass, Krebs, Brisson, Hague and high picks.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Yes but you're one of the guys who always seems to undervalue Backlund. I'd move Monahan waaayyyyy before Backlund.

What? I am a big fan of Backlund but Toews does everything Backlund does but better. Also Monahan is a goal scorer, Backlund is not. You can't trade away the teams sole best goal scorer and not replace him with another one. I understand why you would want to keep Backlund over Monahan, overall 2-way game Backlund is far better, offensively Monahan has a massive edge though. The idea of bringing in a guy like Toews is to upgrade that 2-way top 6 center, not downgrade the teams offensive ability.

 

[blankall]

Haws would be looking for picks, prospects, maybe one expiring contract to help the Flames make it work cap-wise.

2021 1st, Valimaki, and Derek Ryan for Jonathan Toews (maybe with 10% retention)

Thought you'd just casually slide in Calgary's best prospect/young player? Valimaki is killing it right now in a men's league in Europe and looks like he has legit #1 d-man potential. He might be the most untouchable player on the team right now.

 

[Falco Lombardi]

As a Blues fan, it would be too weird to ever see Toews in any other uniform and I hope and think it never happens.

 

[blankall]

Absolutely true it is about supply and demand; the supply of players with Toews talent and resume is extremely limited. Demand; pretty much every team in NHL would want him.

Cap space would not be an issue for any team seriously interested in Toews. Even if a team is sitting with $0 cap available they can have Toews, they just have to be creative and willing to pay the price. For example, negotiate that the Hawks eat half of his cap and send players worth the remaining cap it back to the Hawks. The catch is they would have to offer up an extremely attractive combination of players, prospects and draft picks for that to happen.

For example purpose only:

Toews 50% retained and Subban to Vegas = $6.1m

Fleury to Chicago $900,000 retained = $6.1m

So, the f Vegas wanted this to happen badly enough they could do it but the price would be steep. Hawks would probably want a combination of Glass, Krebs, Brisson, Hague and high picks.

Yeah...Vegas isn't giving you all that. You're trying to create some kind of false market for Toews. Toews would be great. He's, however, 33 and declining. Even if you even out his massive cap hit, no way the Flames, or any other team, are giving up multiple 1sts.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Yup, would strongly consider something around Monahan for Toews with the Hawks either retaining salary or the Flames adding in cap dumps (Lucic or Ryan).

E.g., Monahan+Ryan+2nd+Parsons for Toews @ 9M per (1.5M retained)

Futures straight up doesn't work for obvious reasons but the Flames are also not in a position to be giving away their highest picks and best prospects given the relatively shallow prospect pool.

Backlund foe Toews doesn't actually change the needle for the Flames despite Toews being better (at least in some areas). In that scenario, Toews would simply become the Flames' shutdown centre leaving Monahan as the top line centre essentially making the whole an exercise in futility. It has to be Monahan going the other way or a deal built around other pieces to make sense. Plus, Backlund as a NTC and is unlikely to waive for a rebuilding team.

Disagree with this, Toews would become the top line center, well more or less the current 2nd line would become the 1st line. They would still play that full 2-way game but with Tkachuk as Toews winger you end up with a similar result to Hossa - Toews - xxx. Gaudreau and Monahan would then run the 2nd line in a similar way that Kane and Sharp ran Chicago's 2nd line.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Toews has three Cups for a reason. The guy is seriously good in crunch time. He excels in playoff style hockey. He’d be great in Calgary.

Calgary would be close to cup favourites if they added Toews with Backlund being the only core roster piece going out. With the addition of Marky in net and Tanev on the blue line they would truly be a scary team.

 

[Sinbad]

Yeah...Vegas isn't giving you all that. You're trying to create some kind of false market for Toews. Toews would be great. He's, however, 33 and declining. Even if you even out his massive cap hit, no way the Flames, or any other team, are giving up multiple 1sts.

I never said they were giving all of that, I said “a combination”. I also said “for example purposes”, obviously comprehension isn’t a strength of yours.

 

[bert]

There is no scenario Toews makes the Flames more competitive

Yeah he sucks doesnt even belong in the league. He brings nothing to the table.

 

[blankall]

I never said they were giving all of that, I said “a combination”. I also said “for example purposes”, obviously comprehension isn’t a strength of yours.

When you make a list and then put "and" at the end, it implies you want a combo of all those players plus the high picks. If you wanted to state that you just wanted some of those assets, you should have used "or", or better yet listed how many assets you actually wanted.

For example if I were to say I want a shirt with a combination of red, yellow, and blue colours on it, that implies that I want a shirt with all 3 colours. If use the word "or", it implies that having all 3 colours is not essential, but I'm also not specifying how many of the 3 colours I require.

 

[Some Other Flame]

Disagree with this, Toews would become the top line center, well more or less the current 2nd line would become the 1st line. They would still play that full 2-way game but with Tkachuk as Toews winger you end up with a similar result to Hossa - Toews - xxx. Gaudreau and Monahan would then run the 2nd line in a similar way that Kane and Sharp ran Chicago's 2nd line.

Who's the shutdown centre that takes up all the hard matchups in that scenario? Because no one else on the roster, especially not Monahan, is capable of replicating Backlund's defensive play.

Would much rather take a gamble on Toews finding new offensive life with Gaudreau feeding him (Kane-lite) and Lindholm on the other side (Hossa-lite) with Tkachuk-Backlund-Mangiapane taking the hard matchups than expecting someone like Ryan to carry the whole defensive load.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Who's the shutdown centre that takes up all the hard matchups in that scenario? Because no one else on the roster, especially not Monahan, is capable of replicating Backlund's defensive play.

Would much rather take a gamble on Toews finding new offensive life with Gaudreau feeding him (Kane-lite) and Lindholm on the other side (Hossa-lite) with Tkachuk-Backlund-Mangiapane taking the hard matchups than expecting someone like Ryan to carry the whole defensive load.

You don't really know who Toews is that well do you? He has consistently been one of the best 2-way forwards in the league since his 2nd season and is just as strong defensively as Backlund, maybe better. He is the obvious choice for shut down center. As for his line mates, Toews and Kane never played together, they have poor synergy so playing Toews with Gaudreau makes no sense. End of the day Gaudreau and Monahan still have good synergy, and Tkachuk would play even better with Toews than he does right now with Backlund. It doesnt really matter after that if you want to put Lindholm or Mangiapane as the 3rd guy on the Toews line, however I would argue that with Toews being one of the best faceoff guys in the league Lindholm is better suited for the Monahan line.

 

[Cotton]

Chicago wrote to their fans to express they will be rebuilding.

I expect Jonathan Toews to say to the management that he wants to leave. I feel like CGY is an appropriate trading partner. Looking for Cs + Toews is from Western Canada (Manitoba, but I don't think Jets have the room to move for Toews). + CGY is still a really good team with good vets and good young players.

Could the Flames be willing to obtain Toews in order to be really competitive for the next three seasons and possibly + ? What could be a deal that would be good for the two organizations? I was thinking vets that have important contract so that CGY has cap space to land Toews. How about :

Backlund
Rittich
Pelletier
1st in 2022

for

Toews
(possibly a small add here? Idk).

*Manitoba is actually central Canada, not western.

 

[FedorTyutin]

*Manitoba is actually central Canada, not western.

True. From Québec perspective, everything beyond Rivière des Outaouais seems Western.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Honestly I would love Toews. I think he fits the Flames would be of course the cap and the pieces going back.

 

[Zirakzigil]

That contract is disgusting. The only way I would do it is if Ryan and Lucic are headed the other way and the Hawks retained on Toews. Obviously that is completely unrealistic, which thankfully is also the thought that he comes to Calgary.

 

[bobholly39]

For what it's worth - Jonathan Toews shouldn't ask to be traded. I think it'd be crappy if he did.

The team helped him win 3 cups, and paid him a TON of money as a reward. He should be loyal to them. If there's mutual willingness on both sides to move on - sure, maybe you do. But if they want to keep him, I don't think he should be asking for a trade. Kane too.

 

[deckercky]

They wouldn't be a contender on the level of Tampa, but they would definitely be a team that could go on a long run over the next few years (ie, before markstrom and tanev decline).

Lucic + Rittich + futures for Toews @ $9m is cap neutral and removes nothing from the roster.

Chicago would ask for a ton, obviously, and this forum will never agree on the fair value, but there's definitely room to make a trade that makes Calgary miles more dangerous.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

For what it's worth - Jonathan Toews shouldn't ask to be traded. I think it'd be crappy if he did.

The team helped him win 3 cups, and paid him a TON of money as a reward. He should be loyal to them. If there's mutual willingness on both sides to move on - sure, maybe you do. But if they want to keep him, I don't think he should be asking for a trade. Kane too.

Toews doesn’t owe the Hawks shit. He helped them win just as much as they helped him. Toews has been a huge part of making the Hawks millions in revenue from multiple avenues. I actually love that here’s a guy, who’s won at every level, has won gold, made his millions and has every reason to take it easy and is pissed off about his team publicly not trying to win. It’s an insult to what a warrior like him has done for that team and city. Toews isn’t a loser and of course that won’t sit well with him. If he asked for a trade, it wouldn’t surprise me at all.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

You don't really know who Toews is that well do you? He has consistently been one of the best 2-way forwards in the league since his 2nd season and is just as strong defensively as Backlund, maybe better. He is the obvious choice for shut down center. As for his line mates, Toews and Kane never played together, they have poor synergy so playing Toews with Gaudreau makes no sense. End of the day Gaudreau and Monahan still have good synergy, and Tkachuk would play even better with Toews than he does right now with Backlund. It doesnt really matter after that if you want to put Lindholm or Mangiapane as the 3rd guy on the Toews line, however I would argue that with Toews being one of the best faceoff guys in the league Lindholm is better suited for the Monahan line.

Toews plays a ton with Kane, what are you smoking? They aren't always regular linemates but they've shared 1067 mins at 5v5 just in the last 3 years.

 

[qwerty]

Absolutely true it is about supply and demand; the supply of players with Toews talent and resume is extremely limited. Demand; pretty much every team in NHL would want him.

Cap space would not be an issue for any team seriously interested in Toews. Even if a team is sitting with $0 cap available they can have Toews, they just have to be creative and willing to pay the price. For example, negotiate that the Hawks eat half of his cap and send players worth the remaining cap it back to the Hawks. The catch is they would have to offer up an extremely attractive combination of players, prospects and draft picks for that to happen.

For example purpose only:

Toews 50% retained and Subban to Vegas = $6.1m

Fleury to Chicago $900,000 retained = $6.1m

So, if Vegas wanted this to happen badly enough they could do it but the price would be steep. Hawks would probably want a combination of Glass, Krebs, Brisson, Hague and high picks.

If that’s the expected return you think you’ll receive for Toews, I think you’re in for a surprise. I know Toews is still a heckuva player and has won everything.

But he’ll be 33 going into next season and based on the paltry returns that Eric Staal and Paul Stastny received, is Toews really worth a king’s ransom in comparison? I get that he’s better than the above 2, but I’d rather sell the farm on a Aleksander Barkov instead.

Kane on the other hand though, I think he’ll net the Blackhawks an absolute bounty.

 

[Some Other Flame]

You don't really know who Toews is that well do you? He has consistently been one of the best 2-way forwards in the league since his 2nd season and is just as strong defensively as Backlund, maybe better. He is the obvious choice for shut down center. As for his line mates, Toews and Kane never played together, they have poor synergy so playing Toews with Gaudreau makes no sense. End of the day Gaudreau and Monahan still have good synergy, and Tkachuk would play even better with Toews than he does right now with Backlund. It doesnt really matter after that if you want to put Lindholm or Mangiapane as the 3rd guy on the Toews line, however I would argue that with Toews being one of the best faceoff guys in the league Lindholm is better suited for the Monahan line.

Yeah, I'm well aware of who Toews is thanks, but what you're not understanding is that simply going from Backlund to Toews (while giving up significant assets on top of adding up to 5M to the cap) doesn't at all address the organizations actual problem. Which is, a top line offensive centre that is wholly dependent on his winger to create offensive while wilting in the playoffs.

See, Backlund on whatever line is an absolute strength for this team down the middle while Monahan is more of a weakness. Yes, Monahan scores goals but that's all he does. He doesn't drive the play, he can't carry a line or put the team on his back, he doesn't make his linemates significantly better. So the whole point of even looking into someone like Toews is to upgrade Monahan's spot, not Backlund, otherwise there's no point. And that upgrade in come in one of two ways, either directly by moving Monahan or indirectly by giving up Lucic and significant futures. So again, I'd much rather move Monahan than deplete an already shallow prospect pool.

And I'm pretty sure Toews and Kane have played fair bit with each other with the main reason behind them being separated is to spread out the offense. Unlike Monahan, both Backlund and Toews are capable of centering and carrying their own line.

 

[Oilers Propagandist]

Toews + Seabrook + 2 2nd Round picks
Markstrom, bennett and Monahan

14. 625 million going to the Hawks and 17.375 going to the Flames. Seabrook is currently on the IR too.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Toews plays a ton with Kane, what are you smoking? They aren't always regular linemates but they've shared 1067 mins at 5v5 just in the last 3 years.

That is heavily skewed by them being primary line mates for half of the 18/19 season. This year they played a total of 263 minutes together 5v5 (~28%) and in 17/18 they played 235 (23%) together. When Chicago won the cup in 14/15 Kane and Toews played a total of 145 minutes together that season at 5v5 (~13%), in 12/13 they played 99 minutes (15%) together. They are rarely regular linemates, however being the 2 top players on the team they will have multiple overlapping shifts. It's kind of like how Zibanejad and Panarin were not line mates this year yet still shared 234 minutes of 5v5 ice time together. Kane and Toews are more effective on different lines and are only deployed together on the man advantage and in line shuffles, with Gaudreau having such a similar game style to Kane I find it very unlikely Toews would be paired with him over Tkachuk (who is a lot more like Hossa).

 

[Gritty]

I love the idea of bringing in a true leader that has won it all and having a legit 2-3 years of contention. I would want to keep Backlund on the team to roll in the playoffs three solid lines.

2021 1st (or 2022)
2021 2nd (or 2022)
Jakob Pelletier
Ryan (Great defensive C who can help shelter the kids)
Lucic (This contract has to go the other way for any deal to work)

For

Toews

I really like the look of this team!

JG - Toews - Lindhom
Tkatchuk - Monahan - Mangi
Dube - Backlund - Bennett

Gio - Andersson
Hanifin - Tanev

Markstrom