Value of: Jonathan Toews for CGY

[section 218]

No way Toews is moved. Him and Kane will stick around, similar to Giroux/Voracek sticking around in Philly.

Only place Toews would waive his NMC for is Winnipeg
Very Comfortable in Chicago

 

[Double Dion]

If you may recall, once Ward became coach he moved Backlund to Monahan and Gaudreau's right wing, a position he's literally never played before, and left him there for like 20 or 30 games. And the second he wised up and moved Backlund back to center (at Backlund's request of course), he took off.



Actually, the only fanboy fantasy is the notion that Gaudreau and Monahan are magically going to return to form playing together. That line combo is STALE and it's absurd that folks think both have to be played together forever and always. Literally the Sedin TWINS spent time on separate lines when things weren't working but for Flames fans, it's somehow impossible to even begin to consider separating Gaudreau and Monahan. Perhaps because somewhere deep down, even you realize how useless Monahan would be if Gaudreau wasn't there to prop him up.

Anyone that thinks Monahan as the top line center will lead the team to the cup obviously doesn't get it.

I've learned it's not worth posting with guys who can just read the back of a hockey card. Without Backlund we would be a 12th place team in the West. Gotta have someone to matchup with elite centers when you don't have one. Monahan gets his head caved in against guys like McDavid. If they can't see that then they don't really understand the sport.

 

[HighLifeMan]

If you may recall, once Ward became coach he moved Backlund to Monahan and Gaudreau's right wing, a position he's literally never played before, and left him there for like 20 or 30 games. And the second he wised up and moved Backlund back to center (at Backlund's request of course), he took off.

Yes, I do recall that experiment. It was closer to the 12-15 game range (17% of his even strength ice time for the year). It certainly wasn't 30. Regardless, that roster change was just as much trying to get Backlund going as it was getting Johhny and Monahan going as he had just 9 points in 27 games prior to the coaching change. He underperformed for the large majority of the season. His saving grace was obviously his play down the stretch.

His jump in production also directly coincides with the promotion of Mangiapane to that line as well. That trio was dynamite together.

 

[qwerty]

Let's not get carried away here with the Backlund hype machine here.... He outpeformed Monahan for 20 games down the stretch where he got incredibly hot playing with the team's leading scorer. How quick some forget just how bad he was to start the season..

Backlund had 6 goals his first 52 games this season playing over 18 minutes a night.. He was on a 35 point pace.

Back to the thread at hand though.. I don't get the appeal to add Toews. Adding the required pieces to include a Lucic, or getting the Hawks to retain the needed salary will make the deal completely lopsided. I don't see a viable trade here.

Backlund was playing a lot of wing at that time where he’s not comfortable at all. He’s a good puck distributor and needs to play up the middle to be more effective. He and Tkachuk since the day he arrived have had chemistry playing together. These 2 play against top lines and force them to defend them on the cycle, that’s a winning formula.

If Backlund was to moved in favor of Monahan, I think he’d fail in the same position. Monahan can’t defend against elite level centers, he’s not quick enough or hard to play against. That’s why Backlund has to do the heavy lifting. I’ll give Monahan the clear edge offensively, but he always seems to disappear when things tighten up. He’s great at run and gun, but that’s not the style of game played in the playoffs.

 

[Sparky93]

Let's not get carried away here with the Backlund hype machine here.... He outpeformed Monahan for 20 games down the stretch where he got incredibly hot playing with the team's leading scorer. How quick some forget just how bad he was to start the season..

Backlund had 6 goals his first 52 games this season playing over 18 minutes a night.. He was on a 35 point pace.

Back to the thread at hand though.. I don't get the appeal to add Toews. Adding the required pieces to include a Lucic, or getting the Hawks to retain the needed salary will make the deal completely lopsided. I don't see a viable trade here.

To me, a deal that included both Backlund and Lucic wouldn't require retention. The cap is more or less equal. I think the team is close with the talent that we have. What we lack is a true veteran leader that could drive these guys to their full potential. When the guys are on they can play with any team in the league, but its the mental fragility that kills us.

 

[HighLifeMan]

To me, a deal that included both Backlund and Lucic wouldn't require retention. The cap is more or less equal. I think the team is close with the talent that we have. What we lack is a true veteran leader that could drive these guys to their full potential. When the guys are on they can play with any team in the league, but its the mental fragility that kills us.

I agree, but Chicago would want additional assets for having to take on Lucic. That's where the deal would kill us.

Roster wise Toews is 100% a great fit, I just don't think there is a realistic deal to be made, and I certainly don't think Calgary would be a preferred destination for him either.

To many hoops to jump through here.

 

[qwerty]

Only place Toews would waive his NMC for is Winnipeg
Very Comfortable in Chicago

Would Toews be comfortable playing for a last place team? The current Chicago goaltending duo looks more like Bowman wanting to win lottery than the Stanley Cup.

Winnipeg probably makes some sense from personal standpoint. But with Mark Scheifele already established as a clear #1, Toews would then have to play second fiddle to Scheifele which I’m not sure he’s 100% ok with. Winnipeg also just traded for Paul Stastny, so not sure if they just ship him out to make things work out salary wise or if they like the idea of a $6M 3rd line center.

 

[Sparky93]

I agree, but Chicago would want additional assets for having to take on Lucic. That's where the deal would kill us.

Roster wise Toews is 100% a great fit, I just don't think there is a realistic deal to be made, and I certainly don't think Calgary would be a preferred destination for him either.

To many hoops to jump through here.

Agreed that it would be a hard sell but I think stability playing with Tkachuk and Mangi might be appealing.

It really depends on futures. I'm pretty happy with our pool, if we added Teows, I wouldn't think twice about burning our next 2 1st rounders. Then again, I'd rather take a shot and go all in, opposed to rebuilding, just as the team becomes competitive.

 

[qwerty]

To me, a deal that included both Backlund and Lucic wouldn't require retention. The cap is more or less equal. I think the team is close with the talent that we have. What we lack is a true veteran leader that could drive these guys to their full potential. When the guys are on they can play with any team in the league, but its the mental fragility that kills us.

These are just a bunch of words jumbled together to create a narrative that you like. This isn’t a video game. How does one true veteran leader get the most potential out of an entire team? A generational duo in Toews and Kane struggled just to make Chicago relevant over the last half decade.

Also, mental fragility? What is this exactly? Like, is the entire team inflicted with mental fragility or just a few guys collectively that drag everyone else down? Like this team adds just one new guy and all of sudden they’re no longer mentally fragile?

 

[Yukon Joe]

I made it through the first 4 pages without anyone really questioning the premise - why on earth would Toews ask for a trade?

He has a full no-move clause, so he's well within his rights to stay in Chicago. He's been with Chicago his entire career. He's played with Patrick Kane for his entire career. His girlfriend is from Chicago. He won 3 Stanley Cups for Chicago. He'll go down as a legend in Chicago when he retires. Chicago is a big beautiful vibrant city. He'll still be signing autographs at fan functions 30 years from now in Chicago.

So Chicago is going to rebuild. He has won his cups - playing for a losing team isn't going to tarnish his reputation. There's just far too many quality of life reasons for him to want to stay in Chicago.

 

[HawksDub89]

Only place Toews would waive his NMC for is Winnipeg
Very Comfortable in Chicago

You’ve said this about Kane to Buffalo and now same with Toews. This is based on nothing.

Toews literally a couple weeks ago said he wants to be in Chicago, even while pissed about the Saad deal.

This idea that every player wants to play in their hometown is lazy.

 

[qwerty]

I made it through the first 4 pages without anyone really questioning the premise - why on earth would Toews ask for a trade?

He has a full no-move clause, so he's well within his rights to stay in Chicago. He's been with Chicago his entire career. He's played with Patrick Kane for his entire career. His girlfriend is from Chicago. He won 3 Stanley Cups for Chicago. He'll go down as a legend in Chicago when he retires. Chicago is a big beautiful vibrant city. He'll still be signing autographs at fan functions 30 years from now in Chicago.

So Chicago is going to rebuild. He has won his cups - playing for a losing team isn't going to tarnish his reputation. There's just far too many quality of life reasons for him to want to stay in Chicago.

Toews is a winner and competitiveness is built in to his DNA. I’m not surprised he went off on his GM like he did saying he didn’t sign up for a rebuild. Then a few days later you have Bowman responding with a letter announcing a rebuild.

That’s a pretty good reason in itself to believe Toews may be shipped out. Unless he wants to go through what the Red Wings are going through right now, I think it’d be wise for him to leave. He doesn’t seem like the type that takes losing too well.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Toews is a winner and competitiveness is built in to his DNA. I’m not surprised he went off on his GM like he did saying he didn’t sign up for a rebuild. Then a few days later you have Bowman responding with a letter announcing a rebuild.

That’s a pretty good reason in itself to believe Toews may be shipped out. Unless he wants to go through what the Red Wings are going through right now, I think it’d be wise for him to leave. He doesn’t seem like the type that takes losing too well.

Going off about the rebuild is one thing. You're right - he's a competitor. He wants to win now, and doesn't care about setting up the Blackhawks to be able to win in 7-8 years.

But I'm pretty sure he wants to win as a Blackhawk with the C on his chest - not as a short-term rental somewhere. It sounds like things were smoothed over via a Zoom call earlier this week.


As for the "he'll wave his NMC to go to Winnipeg"... Toews is a proud Winnipegger, but he hasn't lived in Winnipeg since 2003. Since he went to boarding school, then UND, he's lived away from Winnipeg for longer than he lived there. Speaking as a proud Winnipegger who left in 2000... just because it's your hometown and you still have friends and family there doesn't mean you're going to drop all the connections you've made in the meantime in order to rush back.

 

[qwerty]

Going off about the rebuild is one thing. You're right - he's a competitor. He wants to win now, and doesn't care about setting up the Blackhawks to be able to win in 7-8 years.

But I'm pretty sure he wants to win as a Blackhawk with the C on his chest - not as a short-term rental somewhere. It sounds like things were smoothed over via a Zoom call earlier this week.


As for the "he'll wave his NMC to go to Winnipeg"... Toews is a proud Winnipegger, but he hasn't lived in Winnipeg since 2003. Since he went to boarding school, then UND, he's lived away from Winnipeg for longer than he lived there. Speaking as a proud Winnipegger who left in 2000... just because it's your hometown and you still have friends and family there doesn't mean you're going to drop all the connections you've made in the meantime in order to rush back.

Yeah you're preaching to the choir with the Winnipeg thing. I don't think it makes sense for the Jets to go after Toews and vice versa when their defense was the real issue. Pionk was absolutely owned in the play in round. Toews still has pride and an ego, I'm not sure how excited he'd be playing second fiddle to Scheifele.

As for the Blackhawks. Listen I love Chicago, awesome city. But he's not a short term rental. 3 years is a long time and this is the last kick at the can for him at his age. The idea of rebuilding and losing a lot was enough to piss him off to say something publicly which doesn't happen a lot. Last time I saw a letter like this was from Eugene Melnyk. A few days later, Erik Karlsson was traded. Not saying it will happen, but that's why you're seeing so many Toews/Kane threads.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Yeah you're preaching to the choir with the Winnipeg thing. I don't think it makes sense for the Jets to go after Toews and vice versa when their defense was the real issue. Pionk was absolutely owned in the play in round. Toews still has pride and an ego, I'm not sure how excited he'd be playing second fiddle to Scheifele.

As for the Blackhawks. Listen I love Chicago, awesome city. But he's not a short term rental. 3 years is a long time and this is the last kick at the can for him at his age. The idea of rebuilding and losing a lot was enough to piss him off to say something publicly which doesn't happen a lot. Last time I saw a letter like this was from Eugene Melnyk. A few days later, Erik Karlsson was traded. Not saying it will happen, but that's why you're seeing so many Toews/Kane threads.

We may not even see anything until closer to TDL or even after expansion but the possibility of any of the remaining big 3 being moved has increased 10 fold. For example, I could totally see Keith waiving to play under Q again in Florida. the needs match too

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

I happen to think Toews would be a good fit play wise in Calgary and that he has more gas in the tank than this board gives him credit for. The big problem with him is his 10.5 million dollar AAV. Just not a lot of ways the Flames can fit that in. Would need either some significant retention or Lucic going back.

If I'm Bowman, I'd be willing to retain $3-3.5M to make his cap hit a very palatable $7-7.5M if there were young legit quality assets coming back.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

If I'm Bowman, I'd be willing to retain $3-3.5M to make his cap hit a very palatable $7-7.5M if there were young legit quality assets coming back.

Should be noted that Chicago can only retain on 1 more contract this year. You are only allowed to retain on a maximum of 3 contracts, Saad's will end next off season and Maatta the year after

 

[Bounces R Way]

If I'm Bowman, I'd be willing to retain $3-3.5M to make his cap hit a very palatable $7-7.5M if there were young legit quality assets coming back.

I'd have to think the Flames would be very interested in Toews at that number. Maybe a young roster player with upside like Dube or Mangiapane and a 2021 1st? + Lucic and Ryan as cap out. Lucic is overpaid but plays decent defense and looks out for the youth physically. Ryan has one year left and is a pretty good bottom 6 center.

Among the better prospects we have I could really only see Pelletier being available. Zary is the team's only real quality C prospect and Valimaki is too important to the team's future.

 

[Pertti]

Would Toews be comfortable playing for a last place team? The current Chicago goaltending duo looks more like Bowman wanting to win lottery than the Stanley Cup.

Winnipeg probably makes some sense from personal standpoint. But with Mark Scheifele already established as a clear #1, Toews would then have to play second fiddle to Scheifele which I’m not sure he’s 100% ok with. Winnipeg also just traded for Paul Stastny, so not sure if they just ship him out to make things work out salary wise or if they like the idea of a $6M 3rd line center.

Bolded: I don't think that would be an issue because for Canada Toews been happy to be 13 forward if it means to win.

Underline: I think this makes it unlikely to Winnipeg to trade for Toews, I think re-signing Stastny is actually closer that trade for Toews.

 

[ref19]

Only place Toews would waive his NMC for is Winnipeg
Very Comfortable in Chicago

And likely Minnesota obviously.

 

[ChiHawk21]

Should be noted that Chicago can only retain on 1 more contract this year. You are only allowed to retain on a maximum of 3 contracts, Saad's will end next off season and Maatta the year after

i did not know this. thanks for the info

 

[flamesforcup]

Monahan+Lucic for Toews (no retention) is what i would be willing to do and it makes sense for both teams (assuming Toews wants to still compete and has asked for a move). Hawks get younger and Flames upgrade. Maybe add a minor piece here and there but absolutely no Valimaki.

 

[Sniper99]

Only place Toews would waive his NMC for is Winnipeg
Very Comfortable in Chicago

nah he either finishes in Chicago or moves on to a contender for one more cup run.

 

[treple13]

So here's the biggest problem with any of these proposals. Zero chance Lucic waives his NMC to go to a rebuilding Chicago. Even IF you believe Toews wants out, that will kill any possible deal