Player Discussion: John Tavares- Part IV

[seafoam]

It's called "moving the goalposts" and it's often the last resort of someone who makes a BS claim and gets called out on it.

"What legit NHL player would play at Barclays if they had a choice to playing anywhere else?"
"Here are 5 legit NHLers who chose to play at Barclays when they would've definitely had many other options."
"They don't count!"

I'm not making a claim that they didn't want to play of Barclays guys c'mon...all I'm saying is all five of those guys wouldn't have gotten those contracts anywhere else so whether or not they wanted to play at Barclays or not probably wasn't given much thought.

 

[seafoam]

I didn't even make that claim lol

 

[seafoam]

I just don't think you'd see guys walk away from their one shot at cashing in over an arena.

 

[JKP]

If I could get $10 mil/year from the Isles and win nothing.. or go to a contender, make 8.5 Million and have a much better chance of winning what I have wanted since I was 8....

Which one you think he is going to pick?

That's not how it works. The agents and union put A LOT of pressure on the players to max every dollar in order to pave the way for the next guy. Seldom do they leave $$ on the table in UFA.

 

[aronjudge11]

That's not how it works. The agents and union put A LOT of pressure on the players to max every dollar in order to pave the way for the next guy. Seldom do they leave $$ on the table in UFA.

LOL sorry guys but Tavares will still be respected around the league when he takes less to go to a top 8 team. Many players take a couple million less. Paul Oneil did it with the yankees im sure mariano rivera did. Winners throw up at the thought of losing. They cant sleep at night, they die on the inside. When I watched the Isles go from a real organization in 85 to a loser organization in 95 96, I wanted to throw up for many years. Now im ok with it but it took 10 years to get used to it.

 

[ScaredStreit]

I just don't think you'd see guys walk away from their one shot at cashing in over an arena.

While I agree with this, it's not taking into consideration:

1) Tavares is going to get paid by somebody-money will NOT be an issue with him

2) We're not just with a questionable arena situation...we're in a questionable market situation...and yes that is something you'd see players walk away from

 

[YearlyLottery]

While I agree with this, it's not taking into consideration:

1) Tavares is going to get paid by somebody-money will NOT be an issue with him

2) We're not just with a questionable arena situation...we're in a questionable market situation...and yes that is something you'd see players walk away from

The thing about JT is I fully believe he would look past the arena issues if the team had a bit more on ice success in his tenure here.

 

[JKP]

LOL sorry guys but Tavares will still be respected around the league when he takes less to go to a top 8 team. Many players take a couple million less. Paul Oneil did it with the yankees im sure mariano rivera did. Winners throw up at the thought of losing. They cant sleep at night, they die on the inside. When I watched the Isles go from a real organization in 85 to a loser organization in 95 96, I wanted to throw up for many years. Now im ok with it but it took 10 years to get used to it.

There's a lot of pressure in the hockey world for guys to maximize contracts from the union and agents. Canadian media up here talks about it all the time. A real "owe it to the next guy" mindset.

There's no way Tavares takes 1.5M less over 7 or 8 yrs if he was a UFA, IMO, being as big a union guy as he is. Not that much.

 

[aronjudge11]

Thats interesting. The agents I know they can go take a walk. The fact that they get so much for about a hundred hours of work is amazing. The union thing I can see but at the same time..tavares took a 2 million a year discount on the last deal when you consider what he was making and he was already a all star type of player and the captain when he signed that deal. I think he took that deal cause he was uncomfortable with money, and was always hearing about wang losing money. Sure snow sold him the whole "we will build a cup team if you take less" story. End of the day Tavares doesnt sign with the Islanders just to keep on good terms with the union in my opion. Wouldnt it be funny if you are right, he goes UFA and signs a top dollar deal with the devils florida or colorado.

 

[periferal]

Im sure she wont mind living anywhere if hubby is making 11 million a year

You say that, but Chris Pronger's wife was the reason he asked for (and got) a trade from Edmonton.

 

[aronjudge11]

Gretzky got traded to LA because his wife wanted to be a star...woman call the shots in this country or continent...I know in many other countries its like America was up till the 70's and 80's when the men were calling the shots.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Ok to be fair, you are right it's not ridiculous, just a perception that seems to be taking things to an extreme, but we should respect peoples opinions. So it's all good.

Mighty kind of you to retract, and I will certainly try to be more respectful. LGI!

 

[LeapOnOver]

https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/1065557-tavares-would-not-count-on-me-joining-maple-leafs

I don't know about you but a lot changes in a year. Especially a big life change like getting hitched. I would take that 2016 interview with a grain of salt. Not saying he's going to the leafs...but I wouldn't hold your evidence as gold either.

 

[LeapOnOver]

That's not how it works. The agents and union put A LOT of pressure on the players to max every dollar in order to pave the way for the next guy. Seldom do they leave $$ on the table in UFA.

Sorry, calling horsepoop on this one. The arguably best player in the game (or at least up and coming cornerstone) took money off the table he didn't even have to when he signed. You can still keep your seldom argument in there but when a player of that ilk doesn't max it out...I don't buy what you are selling.

 

[Le Grec]

What if JT's hold up is based on knowing that Garth is going to make a big move and doesn't want his new contract messing up the teams cap going forward???

I mean if Snow gets Duchene, I'm sure John would like to leave some room to re-sign him...

 

[JKP]

Gretzky got traded to LA because his wife wanted to be a star...woman call the shots in this country or continent...I know in many other countries its like America was up till the 70's and 80's when the men were calling the shots.

Do you just make **** up? You're 100% wrong on this.

Bruce McNall was on Prime Time Sports in Toronto earlier this month on the anniversary of the trade and told the story of how it went down.

It was all McNall pestering Pocklington until Pocklington told him how much cash he needed.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/590/prime-time-sports/prime-time-sports-august-9-6pm-2/

 

[JKP]

Sorry, calling horsepoop on this one. The arguably best player in the game (or at least up and coming cornerstone) took money off the table he didn't even have to when he signed. You can still keep your seldom argument in there but when a player of that ilk doesn't max it out...I don't buy what you are selling.

Just telling you what a lot of the talking heads in this country say. I've heard Elliotte Friedman say in before, I've heard McKenzie say it before. There is pressure to take the most you can for the next guy's benefit.

McDavid left 0.5M on the table from 14M, which is ~3.5%. The suggestion I responded to was Tavares taking 8.5 in lieu of 10, which is leaving 15% on the table.

That's a big difference.

Tavares would get an angry call from the PA and he'd have his agent "remind" him he'll be setting benchmarks for future UFA deals and arbitration numbers.

Yes, ultimately it's the player's call, their life, their needs, wants and desires. But the pressure is there. And Tavares is a loyal union guy as well. I can't imagine he'd leave 15% on the table.

 

[lazycop]

What if JT's hold up is based on knowing that Garth is going to make a big move and doesn't want his new contract messing up the teams cap going forward???

I mean if Snow gets Duchene, I'm sure John would like to leave some room to re-sign him...

I posted this previously and still think it could be the case. Snow may have gone to JT and said 'there are moves coming before the season starts, you'll get whatever $$$ you want, just wait until after these other acquisitions so we can structure things correctly for the good of the team'. Seems like a JT thing to do to wait. I do think Snow is going to make a big move before training camp, be it Duchene or someone else. Just hope he doesn't overpay too bad.

 

[lazycop]

Just telling you what a lot of the talking heads in this country say. I've heard Elliotte Friedman say in before, I've heard McKenzie say it before. There is pressure to take the most you can for the next guy's benefit.

McDavid left 0.5M on the table from 14M, which is ~3.5%. The suggestion I responded to was Tavares taking 8.5 in lieu of 10, which is leaving 15% on the table.

That's a big difference.

Tavares would get an angry call from the PA and he'd have his agent "remind" him he'll be setting benchmarks for future UFA deals and arbitration numbers.

Yes, ultimately it's the player's call, their life, their needs, wants and desires. But the pressure is there. And Tavares is a loyal union guy as well. I can't imagine he'd leave 15% on the table.

Vanek turned down 7 X 50(Thank God) to sign in Minny for 3 X 19.5.

 

[aronjudge11]

Tavares left at least 15% of the table on his last deal.

 

[JKP]

Tavares left at least 15% of the table on his last deal.

Tavares traded term for dollars. He would have had little leverage in a bridge deal except to hold out. He took more dollars in the early part and gave up a couple years of UFA but also got security. So I don't think he left anything behind.

The signing the star to giant dollar and term after ELC wasn't happening back then, the bridge deals were the norm as deal 2 to get to UFA.

In the scenario I responded to, we'd be talking max term as a UFA. So the choice would be 10x8 or 8.5x7 (80 v. 59.5). Hard to imagine him leaving $20M on the table.

 

[JKP]

Vanek turned down 7 X 50(Thank God) to sign in Minny for 3 X 19.5.

Didn't say no one does it. Said the union and agents discourage and pressure not to do it. I don't see Tavares and Vanek as equivalent personality types.

 

[seafoam]

Gretzky got traded to LA because his wife wanted to be a star...woman call the shots in this country or continent...I know in many other countries its like America was up till the 70's and 80's when the men were calling the shots.

Are you actually 11 years old? Half of your posts are just made up and you didn't even spell Aaron right in your username.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Just telling you what a lot of the talking heads in this country say. I've heard Elliotte Friedman say in before, I've heard McKenzie say it before. There is pressure to take the most you can for the next guy's benefit.

McDavid left 0.5M on the table from 14M, which is ~3.5%. The suggestion I responded to was Tavares taking 8.5 in lieu of 10, which is leaving 15% on the table.

That's a big difference.

Tavares would get an angry call from the PA and he'd have his agent "remind" him he'll be setting benchmarks for future UFA deals and arbitration numbers.

Yes, ultimately it's the player's call, their life, their needs, wants and desires. But the pressure is there. And Tavares is a loyal union guy as well. I can't imagine he'd leave 15% on the table.

I don't think the PA will have an issue with Tavares taking $8.5 million, even if his "fair market value" is closer to $10 million. I think you will only see him getting a stern talking to if he took something ridiculously low, like $6 million or less. They're not going to rake him over the coals if he decided to take $1.5 million less than he could have if he did so to allow his team to spend more elsewhere.

In the 2013-14 season, the salary cap was at $64.3 million. Crosby re-signed for $8.7 million, which was $4.16 million below what he could have gotten if he signed for the maximum salary allowed (20% of the $64.3 million is $12.86 million). The NHL PA didn't seem to have an issue with Crosby doing that, even though it was quite a bit below what he could have gotten.

So I think as long as Tavares gets money that is in "top line player" range (so anything above $8 million per year), the PA likely won't have an issue with it.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

Gretzky got traded to LA because his wife wanted to be a star...woman call the shots in this country or continent...I know in many other countries its like America was up till the 70's and 80's when the men were calling the shots.

While that was a rumor after the fact, it was started in Edmonton by fans who were pissed off.

The real reasons he got traded and to whom starts at step 1: Peter Pocklington has no soul and sold Gretzky for a giant buy back. LA gave him some big money along with picks/players. The league also saw the chance to expand their interests by this into very hockey-unfriendly territory.