Player Discussion: John Tavares- Part IV

[PK Cronin]

Previous thread - http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2346307

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[aronjudge11]

Previous thread - http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2346307

another missed playoffs no way he signs. 1st round and out i seriously doubt he signs. a long term comitment with brooklyn but no ice pipes repair...i think he leaves unless they win a cup this year. im asuming they offered him 12 million a year. but they arent the brightest minds they may rather sign 2 kulemins at 6 million a year then 1 tavares.

 

[SI90]

Every time I read a statement from Tavares I feel worse. LoL could be because I'm a pessimist

 

[aronjudge11]

If you take him for his word, (which I wouldnt) hes more concerned with what arena would the isles play in. I dont think they are leaving the NYC area, I think they would play in MSG if they had to. I could be wrong. So I dont know why he cares at all about which arena the billionair owners bring the team to. Unless he really hates the brooklyn ice. But at the end I think he leaves asuming Snow cant bring in two high level players within the month, and the team has a washington capitals type of season or NY rangers type of season. In other words not scraping by to make the playoffs. The NY Islanders, really shouldnt ALWAYS be scraping by to see the playoffs...I thought I remember a YAshing team once that had a really good regular season.

 

[Kevin27NYI]

Every time I read a statement from Tavares I feel worse. LoL could be because I'm a pessimist

Really? I feel better. It's better to know, he outlined a bit of timeline, explained the lack of pressure he will feel and believes in the team around him.

 

[duster19]

Every time I read a statement from Tavares I feel worse. LoL could be because I'm a pessimist

Me too. Still think there is a good chance he signs but it looks like something is going to have to change for him to sign. Maybe it's an arena. Maybe it's something else. Who really knows other then JT?

Have to think that Snow is going to have to start considering, at least internally, what his price point and deadline are for JT.

 

[Clutcherbuck]

He's waiting to see how the arena situation pans out. Relax.
Put yourself in his shoes. It's common sense that he would. Nothing will get done before 9/28. No one in their right mind, in his position, would sign before 9/28 given the uncertainty.

He seems to be a fan of Belmont, and could be, you know, posturing a little for that to happen.

 

[Rehabguy]

http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey...one-1.14061200


Ahaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh!!!!!!

Where's LeaponOver now? Where's Ahab and his minions?

Looks like I was right on the mark about the situation eh LeapOnOver?

Like I told you guys, chill out!!!

And I do agree with JT, this team going into next year has the talent to be a Cup contender.

I'd bet you guys a million bucks JT reads this stuff for laughs. Again, coming from the horse's mouth- he wants to remain an Islander for the next 8 years, but just wait a few posts, the sky is falling crowd hasn't chimed in yet.

 

[Rehabguy]

http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey...one-1.14061200


Ahaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh!!!!!!

Where's LeaponOver now? Where's Ahab and his minions?

Looks like I was right on the mark about the situation eh LeapOnOver?

Like I told you guys, chill out!!!

And I do agree with JT, this team going into next year has the talent to be a Cup contender.

I'd bet you guys a million bucks JT reads this stuff for laughs. Again, coming from the horse's mouth- he wants to remain an Islander for the next 8 years, but just wait a few posts, the sky is falling crowd hasn't chimed in yet.

Originally Posted by Rehabguy View Post
Well, you see, that's what irks me about you guys.

In the midst of all your doubts, criticisms, and recent negative feelings about John Tavares, did it EVER cross your minds that the condition of the arena, the make-up of the team, the stability of the Islander's home location were the exact reasons John Tavares was holding off signing a contract extension now. Did you ever think that he takes his position as Captain of the New York Islanders seriously (which I think we all know he does) and that as Captain, he feels a obligation TO HIS FELLOW TEAMMATES to do every thing in his power to make sure these issues be taken care of before he agrees to sign on the dotted line.

Yes, the #1 priority for next season MUST, I REPEAT MUST, be the terrible condition of the ice. Kyle Clutterbuck was very vocal about this stating that the reason John Tavares was injured at the end of last season was because of the poor quality of the ice.

I'm willing to bet (and yes this IS speculation) that John Tavares is using his contract (which honestly are the ONLY cards he holds) as leverage to put pressure on Ledecky, Malkin, and Snow to get this circus under control so that he can lead this team under the appropriate conditions. It is NOT (again sensible speculation) a sign that he is having second thoughts about remaining an Islander, and we can extrapolate this from the simple fact that he has said OVER and OVER and OVER again that he wants to be an Islander and bring home the Stanley Cup.

If he signs now, what leverage does he have? NONE, other than promises from the owners that things will improve- the ice will be improved, the arena location will be finalized, but as we all know talk is cheap and money talks. If this is what it takes, then good for John Tavares. It only proves what a great character, leader, franchise player he really is. For all we know, John Tavares is doing the MOST John Tavares thing that he known for doing- CARRYING THE EFFING TEAM ON HIS BACK!

You see, if you would for once take off you're damned "the sky is falling" glasses off once in a while, you might actually understand what actually is going on, but if every thing that comes out of your mind is negative your going to keep missing the forest for the trees like you always do.

I had to quote myself so I can gloat; AND I AM gloating

 

[LeapOnOver]

http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey...one-1.14061200


Ahaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh!!!!!!

Where's LeaponOver now? Where's Ahab and his minions?

Looks like I was right on the mark about the situation eh LeapOnOver?

Like I told you guys, chill out!!!

And I do agree with JT, this team going into next year has the talent to be a Cup contender.

I'd bet you guys a million bucks JT reads this stuff for laughs. Again, coming from the horse's mouth- he wants to remain an Islander for the next 8 years, but just wait a few posts, the sky is falling crowd hasn't chimed in yet.

Not quite sure what you are gloating about. It's the same lip service he's been giving. I already said I think he's waiting to see what direction the team is going in just like you (that includes where they'll be playing) . As far as taking team friendly contacts he took ONE as an rfa. Big whoop...

Lastly if this doesn't tell you we are screwed if nothing good comes out of new arena talks or it doesn't happen in a timely fashion....I don't know what brand of rose colored glasses you wear but they are something special. The way you are acting I thought I was going to read an article announcing he signed. Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back for absolutely nothing.

PS. Still trying to figure out who Kyle Clutterbuck is....

 

[bigtim1988]

Not quite sure what you are gloating about. It's the same lip service he's been giving. I already said I think he's waiting to see what direction the team is going in just like you (that includes where they'll be playing) . As far as taking team friendly contacts he took ONE as an rfa. Big whoop...

Lastly if this doesn't tell you we are screwed of nothing good comes out of new arena talks or it doesn't happen in a timely fashion....I don't know what brand of rose colored glasses you wear but they are something special. The way you are acting I thought I was going to read an article announcing he signed. Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back for absolutely nothing.

LOL yea, there was nothing in that article that told me that JT signed his new contract.....nothing stating that JT just signed a 8yr deal = nothing to be happy about !!!

I do think that we're far too pessimistic about the situation however.( understandably so). Lets not kid ourselves, this is a talented roster, and i think that a majority of the players knew cappy wasn't going to be the one to lead them to the promise land. They prob half-assed it at the beginning of the year, so he'd get booted.

 

[aronjudge11]

Im sorry but how is this a cup contending team? If you put them in a video game, and had them in the playoffs ten years with this team, they probably win one round in ten years which would be 11 rounds since you won once. Really. Who exactly would they be better then? Tampa would beat them without its best player. pens/caps would beat them. Boston you know would beat them. ottawa probably. Rangers maybe its 40% chance of winning. You cant say your better then the rangers who won like ten rounds the last ten years. And have a front office with profesional scouts when the isles have wang and snow deciding everything.

 

[JKP]

Every team is flawed in the cap era. Nashville went to the finals with the same regular season points total.

Once you get into the POs it's anyone's game. There are few perennial dynastic teams anymore.

A guy who works for me is a massive pens fan and he kept expecting their D to **** the bed in every series last year.

All these teams are flawed. the separation in the cap world is minimal. Guys like JT surrounded by a decent cast that get hot at the right time is what wins now.

Of course this team is a contender.

 

[aronjudge11]

ok but i dont buy it myself. I keep seeing the same 6 teams winning the cup

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Every team is flawed in the cap era. Nashville went to the finals with the same regular season points total.

Once you get into the POs it's anyone's game. There are few perennial dynastic teams anymore.

A guy who works for me is a massive pens fan and he kept expecting their D to **** the bed in every series last year.

All these teams are flawed. the separation in the cap world is minimal. Guys like JT surrounded by a decent cast that get hot at the right time is what wins now.

Of course this team is a contender.

Although it's true that no team is perfect in a cap world, I don't agree with this line of reasoning.

The teams who are legitimate contenders tend to be elite at at least one aspect of the game to compensate for any shortcomings the team has elsewhere. Pittsburgh's elite forwards made up for any perceived shortcomings on defense (though I believe those are overstated). Nashville's elite top four on defense made up for the lack of depth at center.

So while it's true every team has flaws at some spot in the lineup, the true contenders make up for it by being dominant/elite somewhere else. IMO, I'm not sure you can say that about the Isles.

 

[Lame Lambert]

Although it's true that no team is perfect in a cap world, I don't agree with this line of reasoning.

The teams who are legitimate contenders tend to be elite at at least one aspect of the game to compensate for any shortcomings the team has elsewhere. Pittsburgh's elite forwards made up for any perceived shortcomings on defense (though I believe those are overstated). Nashville's elite top four on defense made up for the lack of depth at center.

So while it's true every team has flaws at some spot in the lineup, the true contenders make up for it by being dominant/elite somewhere else. IMO, I'm not sure you can say that about the Isles.

This. Everything about this team is mediocre.

 

[PK Cronin]

Im sorry but how is this a cup contending team? If you put them in a video game, and had them in the playoffs ten years with this team, they probably win one round in ten years which would be 11 rounds since you won once. Really. Who exactly would they be better then? Tampa would beat them without its best player. pens/caps would beat them. Boston you know would beat them. ottawa probably. Rangers maybe its 40% chance of winning. You cant say your better then the rangers who won like ten rounds the last ten years. And have a front office with profesional scouts when the isles have wang and snow deciding everything.

Your shtick is getting old, quickly.

Although it's true that no team is perfect in a cap world, I don't agree with this line of reasoning.

The teams who are legitimate contenders tend to be elite at at least one aspect of the game to compensate for any shortcomings the team has elsewhere. Pittsburgh's elite forwards made up for any perceived shortcomings on defense (though I believe those are overstated). Nashville's elite top four on defense made up for the lack of depth at center.

So while it's true every team has flaws at some spot in the lineup, the true contenders make up for it by being dominant/elite somewhere else. IMO, I'm not sure you can say that about the Isles.

I think there are the top tier teams (Penguins, Blackhawks, Capitals, etc.) that are locks for the playoffs and typically to advance at least once. Then there's the next group that are good enough for the playoffs but can be bounced in round 1 by anybody, but they have the chance to give one of the better teams trouble. Ottawa wasn't very good and were very opportunistic in their run to the semi-finals I think. The Islanders fall into that tier for me. They could knock off some of the teams, but are very unlikely to make it to the finals. The current playoff system does make it possible for inferior teams to make it further than they should.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I think there are the top tier teams (Penguins, Blackhawks, Capitals, etc.) that are locks for the playoffs and typically to advance at least once. Then there's the next group that are good enough for the playoffs but can be bounced in round 1 by anybody, but they have the chance to give one of the better teams trouble. Ottawa wasn't very good and were very opportunistic in their run to the semi-finals I think. The Islanders fall into that tier for me. They could knock off some of the teams, but are very unlikely to make it to the finals. The current playoff system does make it possible for inferior teams to make it further than they should.

I have zero doubt that the Isles -- or any team -- that makes the playoffs could win a round. There's enough parity in the NHL nowadays that even the 8th seed, in any given year, can knock out the top seed due to a variety of factors (hot goalie, lucky bounces, injuries to the other team, etc.).

But I think in order for a team to have a legitimate shot of defeating four teams en route to the Stanley Cup, they'll need to be elite at at least a couple of areas, and solid in every area they're not elite in. A team like Nashville, IMO, has that ridiculously good top four defense that can offset any shortcomings they have up front. That's, IMO, the kind of "elite in one area or more" thing a team has to have going for it.

Ottawa, IMO, is more of an example of a Cinderella story to me than Nashville was. It's an example of a team that got lucky one year, but who is just as likely to miss the playoffs entirely the next year than it is to repeat that performance, because it is simply good throughout, but not really elite at any one area.

I think the Isles, as they are constructed on August 16, 2017 (putting this in here in case Snow goes out and acquires a couple of studs prior to the season), are closer to the Sens than they are the Preds.

 

[PK Cronin]

I have zero doubt that the Isles -- or any team -- that makes the playoffs could win a round. There's enough parity in the NHL nowadays that even the 8th seed, in any given year, can knock out the top seed due to a variety of factors (hot goalie, lucky bounces, injuries to the other team, etc.).

But I think in order for a team to have a legitimate shot of defeating four teams en route to the Stanley Cup, they'll need to be elite at at least a couple of areas, and solid in every area they're not elite in. A team like Nashville, IMO, has that ridiculously good top four defense that can offset any shortcomings they have up front. That's, IMO, the kind of "elite in one area or more" thing a team has to have going for it.

Ottawa, IMO, is more of an example of a Cinderella story to me than Nashville was. It's an example of a team that got lucky one year, but who is just as likely to miss the playoffs entirely the next year than it is to repeat that performance, because it is simply good throughout, but not really elite at any one area.

I think the Isles, as they are constructed on August 16, 2017 (putting this in here in case Snow goes out and acquires a couple of studs prior to the season), are closer to the Sens than they are the Preds.

To be clear, I was and do agree with that assessment. They're a team that needs everything to go right for them and not a team that will dictate play and persevere as currently constructed.

 

[periferal]

Every team is flawed in the cap era. Nashville went to the finals with the same regular season points total.

Once you get into the POs it's anyone's game. There are few perennial dynastic teams anymore.

A guy who works for me is a massive pens fan and he kept expecting their D to **** the bed in every series last year.

All these teams are flawed. the separation in the cap world is minimal. Guys like JT surrounded by a decent cast that get hot at the right time is what wins now.

Of course this team is a contender.

Yes - All teams are flawed, but I think the KEY thing you're missing is...

All Cup teams have some real high-end talent the Isles don't.

The top players on teams like Chicago, LA, TB, Pitt, and even Nashville are superior to the mostly ok/average/bottom-6 talent the Isles have had since Tavares was drafted. Go look at any of those teams "Top-5" players...Then compare them to the Isles "top-5" players. In that way the Isles are truly Tavares and the *****cats, why this team is NOT a Cup contender, and absolute proof on how snow has failed and why he should be fired.

 

[Rehabguy]

Not quite sure what you are gloating about. It's the same lip service he's been giving. I already said I think he's waiting to see what direction the team is going in just like you (that includes where they'll be playing) . As far as taking team friendly contacts he took ONE as an rfa. Big whoop...

Lastly if this doesn't tell you we are screwed if nothing good comes out of new arena talks or it doesn't happen in a timely fashion....I don't know what brand of rose colored glasses you wear but they are something special. The way you are acting I thought I was going to read an article announcing he signed. Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back for absolutely nothing.

PS. Still trying to figure out who Kyle Clutterbuck is....

So even after this you still consider him a "two-faced liar".

Sounds like sour grapes to me.

I think you would be a hard person to get along with if you can't even take the most honorable people by their word.

Unless you can show me where he specifically stated he would sign by last July 1st, then your perception of the situation is completely ridiculous.

 

[Rehabguy]

Yes - All teams are flawed, but I think the KEY thing you're missing is...

All Cup teams have some real high-end talent the Isles don't.

The top players on teams like Chicago, LA, TB, Pitt, and even Nashville are superior to the mostly ok/average/bottom-6 talent the Isles have had since Tavares was drafted. Go look at any of those teams "Top-5" players...Then compare them to the Isles "top-5" players. In that way the Isles are truly Tavares and the *****cats, why this team is NOT a Cup contender, and absolute proof on how snow has failed and why he should be fired.

Yes, we are counting on several rookies to get this team to the next level. We don't have "established" high-end talent, but neither did teams like the Lightning who have been making headlines lately, last year like the Isles only a hiccup.

This makes next season all the more exciting to see what they can do.

I believe at the very least they have more than enough talent to be a playoff contender, but can they get it all to together to be a true Cup contender. That's the question.

 

[Rehabguy]

Although it's true that no team is perfect in a cap world, I don't agree with this line of reasoning.

The teams who are legitimate contenders tend to be elite at at least one aspect of the game to compensate for any shortcomings the team has elsewhere. Pittsburgh's elite forwards made up for any perceived shortcomings on defense (though I believe those are overstated). Nashville's elite top four on defense made up for the lack of depth at center.

So while it's true every team has flaws at some spot in the lineup, the true contenders make up for it by being dominant/elite somewhere else. IMO, I'm not sure you can say that about the Isles.

For years, Pittsburgh was considered a Cup contender but failed for many seasons until they won their first Cup recently even though they've had top end talent throughout their line-ups all these years. A lot has to come together for a team to just make the Cup finals and Pittsburgh hadn't been particularly dominant in that regard until later in Malkin's and Crosby's careers. Even after tanking to acquire these two top players on their roster it took them over a decade to win their first Cup. I agree with the poster who said anything can happen in the PO's it is indeed a new season.

They have 3 or 4 rookies/young players who will most likely join the line-up this year all of whom may turn out to be "top end" talent- we just have to watch how they do.

 

[rikker]

i don't see the team being considered a contender as of now, but i don't think it's very far away.

there are lots of contributing factors for success, but the most critical one, IMO, is goaltending. and we have it.

both goalies are experienced and have had playoff success before. i would certainly be more comfortable if we had a top 10 tender, even with a below average back up, but i am not unhappy with the two we have. drama aside...

also, very important, is coaching. too early to tell if Doug and staff are legitimate, but 40 games is not chopped-liver. i can't be wrong on this. the only thing that is chopped liver, is chopped liver.

talent is important, but bad coaching and goaltending will kill any team, regardless of their skill level. we don't have the skill level of the upper echelon of teams, but we have good depth/balance. i would take a team of superior talent IF health is not an issue. but teams like PIT would be in big trouble if Crosby and Malkin went down at the same time. argue all you want, but injuries play a part.

i think it's funny how some posters are calling for Snow's head, citing past performance, but seem to ignore that we had the 2nd best record in the league, the 2nd half of the season.

 

[Axel574]

For years, Pittsburgh was considered a Cup contender but failed for many seasons until they won their first Cup recently even though they've had top end talent throughout their line-ups all these years. A lot has to come together for a team to just make the Cup finals and Pittsburgh hadn't been particularly dominant in that regard until later in Malkin's and Crosby's careers. Even after tanking to acquire these two top players on their roster it took them over a decade to win their first Cup. I agree with the poster who said anything can happen in the PO's it is indeed a new season.

They have 3 or 4 rookies/young players who will most likely join the line-up this year all of whom may turn out to be "top end" talent- we just have to watch how they do.

I couldn't agree more ... some make it seem easy for a GM to go out and acquire elite talent to play along side JT, anchor the second line or dominate the blue-line and those type of players rarely become available. The Islanders have a lot of promising young players at various positions of need and it's high time we see them on the ice.