Player Discussion: John Tavares- Part IV

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A Pointed Stick

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Dec 23, 2010
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Do you just make **** up? You're 100% wrong on this.

Bruce McNall was on Prime Time Sports in Toronto earlier this month on the anniversary of the trade and told the story of how it went down.

It was all McNall pestering Pocklington until Pocklington told him how much cash he needed.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/590/prime-time-sports/prime-time-sports-august-9-6pm-2/

My bad, you already nailed it.

On an off-note it also shows the stupidity behind trading an elite (or better) player. Edmonton got hosed in that deal. They won a cup afterwards but how many more do they win with Gretzky still there? The Lindros trade paid off but he wasn't a proven commodity yet despite all the obvious upside, and CO got a bit lucky with the parts as well.
 

JKP

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My bad, you already nailed it.

On an off-note it also shows the stupidity behind trading an elite (or better) player. Edmonton got hosed in that deal. They won a cup afterwards but how many more do they win with Gretzky still there? The Lindros trade paid off but he wasn't a proven commodity yet despite all the obvious upside, and CO got a bit lucky with the parts as well.
Gretz wasn't traded, according to McNall. He was sold. They then put some players around it to make it look like a trade. Pocklington needed cash.

Thankfully this type of deal isn't possible anymore!

But, yes, I agree that trading the best player in the gm in his prime is seldom a good idea because it's very rare you'd ever get back something comparable.
 

Chapin Landvogt

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If JT's major concern with resigning long-term to a rich contract with the NYI is the 'arena situation' (and I suspect there's more to it than that), then we must assume that Snow is working under the guise of having to move him between, well, now and the trade deadline.

And if JT has a very slow start to the upcoming season, can't even imagine what things are gonna be like around here or in Islanderville in general.
 

LeapOnOver

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Jan 23, 2011
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What if JT's hold up is based on knowing that Garth is going to make a big move and doesn't want his new contract messing up the teams cap going forward???

I mean if Snow gets Duchene, I'm sure John would like to leave some room to re-sign him...

I doubt it but I guess it's not out of the realm of possibility. Draisaitl and McDavid got their contracts and didn't seem to do each other any favors. McDavid took a little less money but I don't think Draisaitl did.
 

Brunomics

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I'm at the point with this I"d rather know now JT isn't resigning so that I could move him. Losing him for nothing is far worse for the franchise long term and the return for a full season of him will be much bigger than if it is a trade deadline deal.

Honestly trade for a guy like RNH, a 1st and a top prospect from EDM. Give RNH 1st line center duty and watch him put up 55-65 points playing a really good two way game. 2 years from now him and Barzal as a 1-2 combo will provide really good production and depth.
 

A Pointed Stick

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Dec 23, 2010
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Some scary thoughts from Staple today. If JT goes unsigned by October we need to get a new GM in and hope he can trade his way into keeping Tavares. Any club that loses a guy like this does not deserve a franchise or fans. We are done if it happens.
 

aronjudge11

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Jul 2, 2017
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I'm at the point with this I"d rather know now JT isn't resigning so that I could move him. Losing him for nothing is far worse for the franchise long term and the return for a full season of him will be much bigger than if it is a trade deadline deal.

Honestly trade for a guy like RNH, a 1st and a top prospect from EDM. Give RNH 1st line center duty and watch him put up 55-65 points playing a really good two way game. 2 years from now him and Barzal as a 1-2 combo will provide really good production and depth.
sounds good to me. if Tavares was worried about a trade hed at least sign a 2 year deal now. he wants out. fire garth. hire u to do that trade garths a moron.
 

LeapOnOver

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I'm at the point with this I"d rather know now JT isn't resigning so that I could move him. Losing him for nothing is far worse for the franchise long term and the return for a full season of him will be much bigger than if it is a trade deadline deal.

Honestly trade for a guy like RNH, a 1st and a top prospect from EDM. Give RNH 1st line center duty and watch him put up 55-65 points playing a really good two way game. 2 years from now him and Barzal as a 1-2 combo will provide really good production and depth.

I'm with you on the trading thing, but lol at Edmonton paying 32m+ to 3 players!!!
 

aronjudge11

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No my point is, if Tavares is concerned about the Isles moving in a few years out of the area, and really loved the islanders like dipietro, tavares would sign a 2 year deal now, to avoid being traded at any moment...unless you are saying Tavares current deal has a NMC...if it does I guess garths hands are tied...
 
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Metnut

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The Isles might have to offer Tavares an 8 year deal with player opt-out options after years 2 and 4.
 

SCMURRAY

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Some scary thoughts from Staple today. If JT goes unsigned by October we need to get a new GM in and hope he can trade his way into keeping Tavares. Any club that loses a guy like this does not deserve a franchise or fans. We are done if it happens.

I'm going to bet he doesn't sign until the new year.
 

Brunomics

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I'm with you on the trading thing, but lol at Edmonton paying 32m+ to 3 players!!!

If I'm Edmonton I would do it to take a shot at the cup right now(and probably be the overwhelming favorite throughout the season and even in the playoffs) even though your not going to be able to hold onto JT going into the off season.
 

seafoam

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The Isles might have to offer Tavares an 8 year deal with player opt-out options after years 2 and 4.

I don't think that is allowed in the CBA.

In the NHL, it's basically referred to as a 'Trade Request'.
 

Metnut

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I don't think that is allowed in the CBA.

In the NHL, it's basically referred to as a 'Trade Request'.


My mistake. Opt-outs have become a big thing in MLB free agency and might've made sense with Tavares given the current situation.
 

blitzkriegs

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Some scary thoughts from Staple today. If JT goes unsigned by October we need to get a new GM in and hope he can trade his way into keeping Tavares. Any club that loses a guy like this does not deserve a franchise or fans. We are done if it happens.

You are assuming that JT's issue with resigning is solely based on the GM and the team's performance or success or lackthereof. It may be something entirely different.

If he didn't believe in the team/GM he could always just ask for a trade? Why wait for UFA?
 

Chapin Landvogt

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You are assuming that JT's issue with resigning is solely based on the GM and the team's performance or success or lackthereof. It may be something entirely different.

Exactly. Like the arena issue, a new wife who'd love to be in Canada, living in the hustle and bustle of New York, dealing with Brooklynites, tolerating Boychuk's breath...

We can't assume JT is watching Snow like a hawk and is basing his decision to stay on whether HE feels Snow is bringing in the personnel he approves of.

Which is something I think a lot of fans seem to think is a key priority.

If he didn't believe in the team/GM he could always just ask for a trade? Why wait for UFA?

I think the most important thing here is that the GM does what the GM has to do - place the team ahead of any and all individuals, even the face of the franchise.

Snow knows better than anybody how things are looking on the JT front. Technically, Snow's job should be on the line for any combination of "JT leaves/Team flounders".

As such, it's either keep JT here and succeed or move him for other helpful pieces and succeed.

I've mentioned in recent weeks that if JT were traded now, before the season begins, some likely targets and returns could look like this:
- To San Jose for Logan Couture, Josh Norris, and 2018 1st rounder
- To Calgary for Michael Backlund, Sam Bennett, and Oliver Kylington
- To Toronto (with de Haan) for Kadri, Nylander, Andrew Nielsen, and 2018 1st rounder

Naturally, any dealing of Tavares would have to bring back a return allowing us to continue to have a team ready to compete for the playoffs while contributing some form of replacement down the line.

Whereas any team obtaining him would be doing so for just one season and the knowledge that he'd likely be resigning a long-term contract next, there would surely be enough teams in the fray (5-8) to provide the NYI with a fair price.

Again, the best thing would be for him to be signed long-term and Snow can go about the business of worrying solely about how best to surround JT. For me, about the worst thing that can happen is that we enter the season with him unsigned and simply make a go of it for one year, not knowing if he has to be moved at the trade deadline (should we be out of a playoff spot, which I'm not expecting) or if we'll enter the summer with our hearts in our guts as July 1st approaches.

Actually, that last part is the single-most scenario I don't want to see and is unfortunately the one I MOST expect us to see.

Which tells me the GM hasn't done that which is most important from a GM...
 

aronjudge11

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Jul 2, 2017
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I agree with you. Trade him now for the fans sake, Tavares sake, the teams sake. The odds are so low that he will resign, probably 5% that its not worth keeping him. The only motivating factor for him to resign is that he gets emotionally disturbed and depressed dealing with fans media teammates, isles staff, with everyone constantly asking if hes leaving after the year. Imagine getting out of bed every morning knowing, in your heart you are probably leaving, and you cant say it to everyone, but they know, and are upset, and your the captain essentialy bailing on the team... Just move him he doesnt want this team. We were out of his league to begin with but with the whole arrianged marriage thing he got stuck with us.
 

BMOK33

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Oct 5, 2005
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I honestly would have signed already if I was him and simply agree to waive the NMC in 2 years if the team looks like they'll end up moving or still stinks. It's really a huge risk to enter the season not signed and then suffer some sort of major concussion that could end your career. It's also a win win for Snow. Think about what he can get back for JT at age 29-30 who is still signed for 6 more years. And if it doesn't come to that you've got the guy for another 8 years. This is the only reason I sort of think he is considering leaving for reasons other than arena/team. If you weren't then why not just do the above?
 

A Pointed Stick

No Idea About The Future
Dec 23, 2010
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You are assuming that JT's issue with resigning is solely based on the GM and the team's performance or success or lackthereof. It may be something entirely different.

If he didn't believe in the team/GM he could always just ask for a trade? Why wait for UFA?

Staple recently said it was more like a stew of arena, team makeup, etc. Money is likely the last of the problems. If Malkin and Ledecky are messing with him then guess what? We are all screwed because it would mean they are morons.
 

Stercrazy

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My vote is to trade him. Get a couple of established players....a prospect and a 2018 draft pick. The current management will not ice a product of substance until a home is established....and why not trade while the value is high?
 

periferal

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Jul 5, 2007
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My vote is to trade him. Get a couple of established players....a prospect and a 2018 draft pick. The current management will not ice a product of substance until a home is established....and why not trade while the value is high?

1. There's ZERO reason to trade Tavares if he's likely to stay - And none of us here know that.
2. I do agree if he isn't signed by the start of the season then you should absolutely be looking into what you can get for him.
3. If Tavares is traded, do you trust the GM in charge to ever lead us to a Stanley Cup no matter how many assets he has access to?
 
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