Player Discussion: John Tavares- Part IV

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lazycop

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Mar 25, 2006
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i don't see the team being considered a contender as of now, but i don't think it's very far away.

there are lots of contributing factors for success, but the most critical one, IMO, is goaltending. and we have it.

both goalies are experienced and have had playoff success before. i would certainly be more comfortable if we had a top 10 tender, even with a below average back up, but i am not unhappy with the two we have. drama aside...

also, very important, is coaching. too early to tell if Doug and staff are legitimate, but 40 games is not chopped-liver.

talent is important, but bad coaching and goaltending will kill any team, regardless of their skill level. we don't have the skill level of the upper echelon of teams, but we have good depth/balance. i would take a team of superior talent IF health is not an issue. but teams like PIT would be in big trouble if Crosby and Malkin went down at the same time. argue all you want, but injuries play a part.

i think it's funny how some posters are calling for Snow's head, citing past performance, but seem to ignore that we had the 2nd best record in the league, the 2nd half of the season.

This. Don't underestimate the impact of adding Weight and his staff, and more significantly, subtracting Crappy. This team WILL be better.
 

aronjudge11

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Jul 2, 2017
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" Even after tanking to acquire these two top players on their roster it took them over a decade to win their first Cup. I agree with the poster who said anything can happen in the PO's it is indeed a new season."

I could of sworn I saw the penguins with crosby and malkin win a cup early in their career..
 

Richie Daggers Crime

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Mar 8, 2004
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" Even after tanking to acquire these two top players on their roster it took them over a decade to win their first Cup. I agree with the poster who said anything can happen in the PO's it is indeed a new season."

I could of sworn I saw the penguins with crosby and malkin win a cup early in their career..

He joined the team in 05-06, they were in the finals in 08-09 and won the next year.
 

Rehabguy

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Oct 2, 2011
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" Even after tanking to acquire these two top players on their roster it took them over a decade to win their first Cup. I agree with the poster who said anything can happen in the PO's it is indeed a new season."

I could of sworn I saw the penguins with crosby and malkin win a cup early in their career..

You are right, my bad- and I thought they did as well, but the issue had been for a long time they were supposed to be Cup contenders perennially and it never happened. The fact that I forgot that they had won one earlier tells you how far they were apart.

The point being that even if you have all this skill on your team, it doesn't guarantee success.
 

MJF

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Sep 6, 2003
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What JT's delay in signing and his comments yesterday indicate to me is that if Belmont fails the owners may not want to remain in Brooklyn and could take the team out of market or sell the team and he was made aware of this by ownership.
 

PK Cronin

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Feb 11, 2013
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What JT's delay in signing and his comments yesterday indicate to me is that if Belmont fails the owners may not want to remain in Brooklyn and could take the team out of market or sell the team and he was made aware of this by ownership.

I didn't take it that far, though I do think it's a very real possibility if they don't get their own arena in the area, but I think Tavares doesn't want to sign up for 8 years of living and working in an unknown area.
 

TommytheCat

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Oct 23, 2010
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What JT's delay in signing and his comments yesterday indicate to me is that if Belmont fails the owners may not want to remain in Brooklyn and could take the team out of market or sell the team and he was made aware of this by ownership.
if this were to happen i feel that this is some typical bs that would happen to the isles fan base ... as soon as we may be turning the corner, the building we are in is having issues and our franchise player not staying because of it ... good lord ... really hope all of this is resolved and the new owners can build a championship team ...
 

Rehabguy

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Oct 2, 2011
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What JT's delay in signing and his comments yesterday indicate to me is that if Belmont fails the owners may not want to remain in Brooklyn and could take the team out of market or sell the team and he was made aware of this by ownership.

There's stoking the flames and then there's STOKING THE FLAMES. You're STOKING THE FLAMES! :laugh:
 

Sidney the Kidney

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I didn't take it that far, though I do think it's a very real possibility if they don't get their own arena in the area, but I think Tavares doesn't want to sign up for 8 years of living and working in an unknown area.

Maybe it's just a different perspective that I have, but I don't know why that's such a big deal to players. Does the city you play in really matter all that much in comparison to whether or not that organization is a successful one? If Tavares believed in the organization's direction, does it really matter if that meant playing in Seattle, Kansas City or Quebec instead of Long Island or Brooklyn?

I can understand it being somewhat of a concern, but I, personally, don't really see why not knowing where I'm playing in a couple of years would be the biggest reason I'd be leery of signing a contract. IMO, as long as I'm getting paid what I'm worth and as long as the organization is heading in the right direction, I don't know if the actual city would matter nearly as much.
 

seafoam

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May 17, 2011
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Maybe it's just a different perspective that I have, but I don't know why that's such a big deal to players. Does the city you play in really matter all that much in comparison to whether or not that organization is a successful one? If Tavares believed in the organization's direction, does it really matter if that meant playing in Seattle, Kansas City or Quebec instead of Long Island or Brooklyn?

I can understand it being somewhat of a concern, but I, personally, don't really see why not knowing where I'm playing in a couple of years would be the biggest reason I'd be leery of signing a contract. IMO, as long as I'm getting paid what I'm worth and as long as the organization is heading in the right direction, I don't know if the actual city would matter nearly as much.

I agree. Maybe from Tavares' viewpoint, he'd want to be remembered as an Islander as opposed to a Seattle Highlander or whatever.

I honestly don't know what is going through his mind, I didn't foresee him dragging the situation out into the season.
 

PK Cronin

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Feb 11, 2013
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Maybe it's just a different perspective that I have, but I don't know why that's such a big deal to players. Does the city you play in really matter all that much in comparison to whether or not that organization is a successful one? If Tavares believed in the organization's direction, does it really matter if that meant playing in Seattle, Kansas City or Quebec instead of Long Island or Brooklyn?

I can understand it being somewhat of a concern, but I, personally, don't really see why not knowing where I'm playing in a couple of years would be the biggest reason I'd be leery of signing a contract. IMO, as long as I'm getting paid what I'm worth and as long as the organization is heading in the right direction, I don't know if the actual city would matter nearly as much.

It's probably a concern for guys who are looking to start a family. They want to make sure that the areas they're moving to are a good fit for their potential needs. I'd personally sign up to play anywhere in the world for $8 million per year, but that's probably because I don't have the option of choosing where I want to go.

There's a chance he might not want to go to specific markets as well.
 

kmo429

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Jul 22, 2011
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Although it's true that no team is perfect in a cap world, I don't agree with this line of reasoning.

The teams who are legitimate contenders tend to be elite at at least one aspect of the game to compensate for any shortcomings the team has elsewhere. Pittsburgh's elite forwards made up for any perceived shortcomings on defense (though I believe those are overstated). Nashville's elite top four on defense made up for the lack of depth at center.

So while it's true every team has flaws at some spot in the lineup, the true contenders make up for it by being dominant/elite somewhere else. IMO, I'm not sure you can say that about the Isles.

I mean, that's fine but We have finished 4th, 10th, and 11th the last 3 years in goal scoring with a completely inept PP, and just upgraded from Strome to Eberle and Ho-Sang is arguably our 2nd most talented forward, and he was not on the team the last 3 years. The team has an absolute good chance to be top 5 in the league in goal scoring, and if the PP can be a top 10 unit it will be top 3 (possible with Eberle, Ho-Sang, Pulock, etc having ahigh ceilings there, thank God a right handed shot!)

Let's also not forget that in 2015-16 our goalies were .925, 2.36 and .919, 2.30. Were ruined last year with horrible management, but I think both goalies will find their way closer to 5-16 totals than 16-17 without a doubt.

So keep pretending this team is mediocre everywhere. We are not elite/dominant anywhere, but we are very solid just about everywhere.
 

Sidney the Kidney

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I mean, that's fine but We have finished 4th, 10th, and 11th the last 3 years in goal scoring with a completely inept PP, and just upgraded from Strome to Eberle and Ho-Sang is arguably our 2nd most talented forward, and he was not on the team the last 3 years. The team has an absolute good chance to be top 5 in the league in goal scoring, and if the PP can be a top 10 unit it will be top 3 (possible with Eberle, Ho-Sang, Pulock, etc having ahigh ceilings there, thank God a right handed shot!)

Let's also not forget that in 2015-16 our goalies were .925, 2.36 and .919, 2.30. Were ruined last year with horrible management, but I think both goalies will find their way closer to 5-16 totals than 16-17 without a doubt.

So keep pretending this team is mediocre everywhere. We are not elite/dominant anywhere, but we are very solid just about everywhere.

I didn't call the team mediocre, someone else did who quoted me. :help:

I commented on a team having to be elite in at least one (preferably more) area in order to compensate for any weaknesses for them to be Cup contenders, and thus, by your own words, the Isles don't meet that criteria.
 

MJF

Hope is not a strategy
Sep 6, 2003
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I didn't take it that far, though I do think it's a very real possibility if they don't get their own arena in the area, but I think Tavares doesn't want to sign up for 8 years of living and working in an unknown area.

If the owners intended to stay in Brooklyn if Belmont fails they would have told Tavares that. As a few posters here have already stated travelling to Brooklyn for games from Manhasset or Garden City shouldn't be an issue. If staying at Barclays was Plan B then I don't see a reason why Tavares wouldn't have signed already. Yet he hasn't.

If as he said he is watching the arena developments then it's fair to assume that the owners have told him what their plans are should Belmont fall apart. And if that's the case it looks to me like they have indicated to Tavares that they will move or sell the team. That's why he hasn't signed here yet.

Sorry to **** on everyone's corn flakes.
 

MJF

Hope is not a strategy
Sep 6, 2003
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Maybe it's just a different perspective that I have, but I don't know why that's such a big deal to players. Does the city you play in really matter all that much in comparison to whether or not that organization is a successful one? If Tavares believed in the organization's direction, does it really matter if that meant playing in Seattle, Kansas City or Quebec instead of Long Island or Brooklyn?

I can understand it being somewhat of a concern, but I, personally, don't really see why not knowing where I'm playing in a couple of years would be the biggest reason I'd be leery of signing a contract. IMO, as long as I'm getting paid what I'm worth and as long as the organization is heading in the right direction, I don't know if the actual city would matter nearly as much.

If it means organizational stability, it shouldn't. But if a move also comes with the sale of the team, then JT may not want to stick around for another regime change. He's entering his prime years right now having played his entire career for one of the least stable franchises in the NHL.
 

Original Rob

Registered User
Aug 9, 2011
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If the owners intended to stay in Brooklyn if Belmont fails they would have told Tavares that. As a few posters here have already stated travelling to Brooklyn for games from Manhasset or Garden City shouldn't be an issue. If staying at Barclays was Plan B then I don't see a reason why Tavares wouldn't have signed already. Yet he hasn't.

If as he said he is watching the arena developments then it's fair to assume that the owners have told him what their plans are should Belmont fall apart. And if that's the case it looks to me like they have indicated to Tavares that they will move or sell the team. That's why he hasn't signed here yet.


Sorry to **** on everyone's corn flakes.

As concerned as I am about this situation, I don't buy this argument. The team has more financial value with a superstar like Tavares locked up long-term. Telling Johnny that we may move to KC or somewhere else lessens his likelihood of re-signing, which reduces potential resale value.

While it may be true that the owners would look to sell if they can't work it out in Belmont, I don't see them being incentivized to tell this to Johnny.
 

Doshell Propivo

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Dec 5, 2005
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If as he said he is watching the arena developments then it's fair to assume that the owners have told him what their plans are should Belmont fall apart. And if that's the case it looks to me like they have indicated to Tavares that they will move or sell the team. That's why he hasn't signed here yet.

Sorry to **** on everyone's corn flakes.

Ahhh, reading between the lines again are we?
 

MJF

Hope is not a strategy
Sep 6, 2003
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As concerned as I am about this situation, I don't buy this argument. The team has more financial value with a superstar like Tavares locked up long-term. Telling Johnny that we may move to KC or somewhere else lessens his likelihood of re-signing, which reduces potential resale value.

While it may be true that the owners would look to sell if they can't work it out in Belmont, I don't see them being incentivized to tell this to Johnny.

You don't think Ledecky and Malkin are keeping JT apprised of every development on this front? They talked to his agent about becoming a team executive to try to entice him to sign.
 

PK Cronin

Bailey Fan Club Prez
Feb 11, 2013
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If the owners intended to stay in Brooklyn if Belmont fails they would have told Tavares that. As a few posters here have already stated travelling to Brooklyn for games from Manhasset or Garden City shouldn't be an issue. If staying at Barclays was Plan B then I don't see a reason why Tavares wouldn't have signed already. Yet he hasn't.

If as he said he is watching the arena developments then it's fair to assume that the owners have told him what their plans are should Belmont fall apart. And if that's the case it looks to me like they have indicated to Tavares that they will move or sell the team. That's why he hasn't signed here yet.

Sorry to **** on everyone's corn flakes.

It says Tavares doesn't like the plan B, but we don't know what the plan B is. It could be staying in Brooklyn, moving the franchise, going back to the Coliseum, or trying to build an arena elsewhere (Queens).

I'd suspect that you're correct, since we know that Willets Point thing is going to be a nightmare for a team to navigate. I highly doubt they'll go back to the Coliseum full time and I also don't think they'll stay in Brooklyn and take a pay cut from them.

Again, I still think it's a mix of things but at least we have acknowledgement that the arena is playing a factor for him. That makes me more hopeful that he'll sign. I really don't see these financial powerhouses in the region being turned down by the state.
 

MJF

Hope is not a strategy
Sep 6, 2003
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It says Tavares doesn't like the plan B, but we don't know what the plan B is. It could be staying in Brooklyn, moving the franchise, going back to the Coliseum, or trying to build an arena elsewhere (Queens).

I'd suspect that you're correct, since we know that Willets Point thing is going to be a nightmare for a team to navigate. I highly doubt they'll go back to the Coliseum full time and I also don't think they'll stay in Brooklyn and take a pay cut from them.

Again, I still think it's a mix of things but at least we have acknowledgement that the arena is playing a factor for him. That makes me more hopeful that he'll sign. I really don't see these financial powerhouses in the region being turned down by the state.

Yeah, I don't want to say it's in the bag because they could always lose to a competing bidder. But my confidence is pretty high that the Isles will win the RFP and JT will come on board as soon as it's done.
 
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