Player Discussion: John Tavares- Part IV

[ndgolden]

I am curious how motivated the owners are going to be to seek a new arena in NY if it is looking like Tavares is not going to re-sign, probably going to hang around Brooklyn if that is the case and if the attendance is going to inevitably start plummeting look to get rid of the team.

A solidified arena plan will be needed not just to retain 91 but also to keep, draw and sign future and current players of this franchise. The "new" arena idea will not be tabled if Tavares leaves. If so, the Islanders will have left the building. Kansas City here we come......

 

[Tres Peleches]

If he's not gonna sign you have to trade him... work out a sign and trade with a western team (Blues or whatnot) for the maximum return. Stipulate that if they trade him to the eastern conference, the Isles get an additional 2 first round picks or something... I'm not even sure that is legal as per the CBA, but of all the worst case scenarios, that is the least detestable to me

 

[redbull]

I'd be amazed if the team doesn't make the playoffs this year. I personally don't feel outside of Carolina the division got much better and the Rangers and Jackets had insane runs last year that probably skewed their seasons.

Florida was decimated by injuries last year, Buffalo will be MUCH better, Tampa will have a healthy Stamkos, Leafs are better - I'm not sure swapping Eberle for Strome and Hamonic makes the Isles any better.

An injury to the Isles, especially in goal or to #91, would devastate the team. If all goes perfectly, maybe they're a #7-#8 seed - hardly a cup contender.

If winning is what Tavares cares about, there are far better options. Can't ignore that fact in the pitch to re-sign him.

 

[PK Cronin]

If Tavares' reluctance to re-sign is due to the ice/arena situation, then why is it even a possibility he re-signs? Even if a new arena is built, aren't the Isles basically stuck at Barclay's for the next 3-4 years (or however long it takes to build a new arena)?

If the ice or travel to the arena situation is that big of a factor, then how does this situation get rectified to convince him to stay since those things will be a factor for at least the first 3 or 4 seasons of his extension?

Some people are willing to put up with a bad situation for a little while if they know it'll get better after that. 3 seasons of a commute you don't like and 5 for one where it's literally a 5 minute drive? Might be worth it.

I honestly feel bad for JT if he leaves about the treatment some of the mouth breathers are gonna give him when he returns for games. He's gonna be flat out abused. The real fans I think will definitely understand why he left

I'd be really pissed off if he left. He's paid fans too much lip service to not get abused if he leaves. Don't lie to the fans and you won't get ridiculed.

That said, I don't think I'd boo him. If he ended up with the Rangers or Penguins though, then I might.

The owners should be very interested in building their own arena whether Tavares wants to stay here or not. The arena at Belmont plus the related project they would have a stake in will provide revenue streams for the Islanders they will never have in Brooklyn, not to mention a long term home where they are the landlords.

John Tavares is 28 years old and reasonably can be expected to play 10 more years. A new arena will be the Isles home long after Tavares is gone.

Yeah, the owners wanting the arena doesn't hinge on convincing Tavares to stay. They want the arena because it's more profitable and that's it.

If he's not gonna sign you have to trade him... work out a sign and trade with a western team (Blues or whatnot) for the maximum return. Stipulate that if they trade him to the eastern conference, the Isles get an additional 2 first round picks or something... I'm not even sure that is legal as per the CBA, but of all the worst case scenarios, that is the least detestable to me

The Blues won't take him because he'll cost too much money. They're a low budget franchise.

I don't know what you're talking about with the stipulation, if Tavares is being traded Snow gets to choose which team he's trading with. Tavares has a limited NTC, so he can only block a small number of destinations. Otherwise, Snow is free to deal with whomever he wants and can ask for whatever he wants. The other team still needs to agree though.

 

[Axel574]

Florida was decimated by injuries last year, Buffalo will be MUCH better, Tampa will have a healthy Stamkos, Leafs are better - I'm not sure swapping Eberle for Strome and Hamonic makes the Isles any better.

An injury to the Isles, especially in goal or to #91, would devastate the team. If all goes perfectly, maybe they're a #7-#8 seed - hardly a cup contender.

If winning is what Tavares cares about, there are far better options. Can't ignore that fact in the pitch to re-sign him.

FLA doesn't scare me in the least, Buffalo and TML both have swiss cheese defense, all three of those teams are in the Atlantic.

Prlly Homer glasses on but I believe the Islanders are better than CBJ, Rangers with a chance even to surpass the Caps and don't think it far fetched to compete for second in the Metro.

 

[BMOK33]

Florida was decimated by injuries last year, Buffalo will be MUCH better, Tampa will have a healthy Stamkos, Leafs are better - I'm not sure swapping Eberle for Strome and Hamonic makes the Isles any better.

An injury to the Isles, especially in goal or to #91, would devastate the team. If all goes perfectly, maybe they're a #7-#8 seed - hardly a cup contender.

If winning is what Tavares cares about, there are far better options. Can't ignore that fact in the pitch to re-sign him.

I would be real careful on Ottawa and Toronto. Most felt Ottawa was a fluke. Their advanced stats and GA/GF argued they overachieved and Toronto has been picked my many experts. Some who are very saavy to have a setback this year which is common for young teams after they have that first big year. Tampa and Buffalo I have no doubt will be better. Florida I don't know. Ask any Florida fan and many think the abberation was not last year but 2015-16. There are many Panthers fans who are pessimistic about the roster changes that have occurred the last 15 months

 

[Tres Peleches]

The Blues won't take him because he'll cost too much money. They're a low budget franchise.

I don't know what you're talking about with the stipulation, if Tavares is being traded Snow gets to choose which team he's trading with. Tavares has a limited NTC, so he can only block a small number of destinations. Otherwise, Snow is free to deal with whomever he wants and can ask for whatever he wants. The other team still needs to agree though.

Sending him out west and keeping him out of the East is more a personal preference, the alternative being the Islanders have to face him many times a year which I would hate. That being said if a team like Carolina offered the moon and the stars to get him, Then you have to make the move

And also, by the stipulation I meant if the Blues flip him back to the eastern conference, not the Original trade from the Islanders

 

[BMOK33]

Sending him out west and keeping him out of the East is more a personal preference, the alternative being the Islanders have to face him many times a year which I would hate. That being said if a team like Carolina offered the moon and the stars to get him, Then you have to make the move

And also, by the stipulation I meant if the Blues flip him back to the eastern conference, not the Original trade from the Islanders

The Blues wouldn't trade him for like 6 years probably when he was nearing the end of the contract. I can't imagine the Isles would care what happens that far down the road

 

[PK Cronin]

Sending him out west and keeping him out of the East is more a personal preference, the alternative being the Islanders have to face him many times a year which I would hate. That being said if a team like Carolina offered the moon and the stars to get him, Then you have to make the move

And also, by the stipulation I meant if the Blues flip him back to the eastern conference, not the Original trade from the Islanders

Ah, that second bit clears it up. Thanks.

I think if Tavares is to be traded that we'd all prefer him to go out west someplace so we don't have to see him as often. Not sure if a stipulation like the one you're suggesting is allowed per the CBA, but if I had to take a guess I'd say it's not.

 

[steveat]

Everything is a wait and see with this team.

Weight coaches a different style and a more offensive game.

JT is up in the air

CDH is up in the air

Barzal is up in the air (people penciling him in like he's a sureshot)

Eberle's scoring is up in the air (who knows if he will have chemistry)

Ladd is up in the air as we have to wait and see if he will be consistent this year. TBH I think last year it was all about creating chemistry which is why it took him a while to settle in. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt.

This is what I am hoping....teams will find it difficult to play us for at least the first 3-4 months because we switched systems. We might have an edge?...

What is important this year is not to lose games that we should win. I hope we don't see any last minute of the 3rd period goals again..EVER! last year wasn't as bad as previous years, but still.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

FLA doesn't scare me in the least, Buffalo and TML both have swiss cheese defense, all three of those teams are in the Atlantic.

Prlly Homer glasses on but I believe the Islanders are better than CBJ, Rangers with a chance even to surpass the Caps and don't think it far fetched to compete for second in the Metro.

Anything can happen, obviously. Cup favorite Tampa missed the playoffs last year as proof of this. But I'm not sure how you can look at the Isles roster and think they're better than Columbus, the Rangers, or the Caps. What area are they clearly superior to those teams?

 

[gramatanboy]

Anything can happen, obviously. Cup favorite Tampa missed the playoffs last year as proof of this. But I'm not sure how you can look at the Isles roster and think they're better than Columbus, the Rangers, or the Caps. What area are they clearly superior to those teams?

The Rangers defense is nothing to write home about. They just lost their #1 center in the offseason and they have very little depth in their system if they do have any significant injuries during the course of the season. I normally like your posts STK, but
I think that you are wrong about the Rangers-they are not that impressive. Columbus on the other hand, will be a very good team and I would not be surprised if they are better than the Islanders.

 

[SI90]

We lose both Tavares and CDH that's going to hurt. Obviously Tavares is an astronomical loss but CDH has turned into a reliable top4 Defensman.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

The Rangers defense is nothing to write home about. They just lost their #1 center in the offseason and they have very little depth in their system if they do have any significant injuries during the course of the season. I normally like your posts STK, but
I think that you are wrong about the Rangers-they are not that impressive. Columbus on the other hand, will be a very good team and I would not be surprised if they are better than the Islanders.

People weren't impressed by the Rangers forward group last year, either, but they ended up scoring a truckload of goals by committee. They finished 4th in the entire league in goals for. The Stepan deal could hurt them, though, for sure. All depends on whether Zibanejad can take over as 1C and whether Hayes is capable of being a 2C.

As for their defense, I'd say it improved tremendously from last year by adding Shattenkirk and subtracting Girardi. They finished 12th in the league in team GAA last year with that defense, and it only got better.

Again, I'm not saying it's impossible or unlikely for the Isles to finish ahead of them. I'm just struggling, based "on paper" to see what the Isles have that puts them clearly ahead of the Rangers. A legitimate 1C is about all I can come up with.

 

[islesfan186]

The Rangers defense is nothing to write home about. They just lost their #1 center in the offseason and they have very little depth in their system if they do have any significant injuries during the course of the season. I normally like your posts STK, but
I think that you are wrong about the Rangers-they are not that impressive. Columbus on the other hand, will be a very good team and I would not be surprised if they are better than the Islanders.

Also, Lundqvist is no spring chicken anymore. And their backup is Ondrej Pavelec...a guy who couldn't crack the Jets roster last year and their goaltending was beyond horrid. Says a lot
I think the years of the rags riding Hank's coat tails are drawing to a close sooner rather than later

 

[TommytheCat]

We lose both Tavares and CDH that's going to hurt. Obviously Tavares is an astronomical loss but CDH has turned into a reliable top4 Defensman.

garf will not be willing to pay and calvin will get his money elsewhere... as for Jt i'm already anticipating his departure... think about it ...we moved to a newer arena and it's still not good enough for @&ck sake....... bad luck or poor planning ... it's engrained in the franchises culture ...

 

[SI90]

garf will not be willing to pay and calvin will get his money elsewhere... as for Jt i'm already anticipating his departure... think about it ...we moved to a newer arena and it's still not good enough for @&ck sake....... bad luck or poor planning ... it's engrained in the franchises culture ...

Just feels like everything is ready to blow up. Hamonic gone. Tavares and CDH leave. The snow era comes to an end.

Then, Dipietro becomes general manager and is able to start his own rebuild.

 

[TommytheCat]

Just feels like everything is ready to blow up. Hamonic gone. Tavares and CDH leave. The snow era comes to an end.

Then, Dipietro becomes general manager and is able to start his own rebuild.

hey if the youngins can come in and make some noise and the coaching staff can get these guys amped night after night maybe the team can gel and play for one another ... as for jt it will hurt tremendously cause we all envisioned him leading the charge... hope dude isn't blowing smoke that he wants to stay here but he could hit us with , it's a business blah blah in the end ... will garf pull a rabbit out or will he be just garf , the guy that everyone &@its on ....

 

[Seph]

People weren't impressed by the Rangers forward group last year, either, but they ended up scoring a truckload of goals by committee. They finished 4th in the entire league in goals for. The Stepan deal could hurt them, though, for sure. All depends on whether Zibanejad can take over as 1C and whether Hayes is capable of being a 2C.

As for their defense, I'd say it improved tremendously from last year by adding Shattenkirk and subtracting Girardi. They finished 12th in the league in team GAA last year with that defense, and it only got better.

Again, I'm not saying it's impossible or unlikely for the Isles to finish ahead of them. I'm just struggling, based "on paper" to see what the Isles have that puts them clearly ahead of the Rangers. A legitimate 1C is about all I can come up with.

Rangers only scored 14 more goals than the Islanders last season, despite the Islanders having an abysmal PP and starting off the year with Capuano choking the life out of the offense. A full year under Weight, and with Eberle to give JT a scoring option on the left boards during the PP, not to mention the Rangers losing their #1 forward, and I could see the Islanders outscoring the Rangers next season. Rangers still have better goaltending and a true #1 Dman though, so they could still end up ahead of the Isles. But I don't see them as being the de facto better team.

Columbus also needs to show they're for real as a top team. After their win streak ended, they really came back to earth with 24-22-5 record, which is hardly a top team's record (is a pace for 85 points). Panarin is an upgrade in some ways over Saad, but Saad has such a great all around game that I don't see this move improving them notably.

Washington and Pittsburgh are the only teams I see as being definitively better, with the Isles being roughly on the same tier as Columbus and the Rangers.

 

[Sparksrus3]

If he's not gonna sign you have to trade him... work out a sign and trade with a western team (Blues or whatnot) for the maximum return. Stipulate that if they trade him to the eastern conference, the Isles get an additional 2 first round picks or something... I'm not even sure that is legal as per the CBA, but of all the worst case scenarios, that is the least detestable to me

So you have JT signing with us then being traded. That team gives up a max return
because he is signed. That team becomes worse possibly even worse if not already than the isles
Because they gave up a max return. Then maybe that team is unhappy with JT and trades him east.

Why would JT not just sign where he wants as an UFA next summer? Even this fictitious team in your trade.
If he is traded tomorrow or in February why would he have to sign the deal with us?
He becomes the property of the new team and can max deal Years with them if he wants and the team did not give up your max return and they remain a better hockey team.
Why would JT not have a no trade clause in his new deal?
But it all goes back to why does JT do any of this? It's the time in his career that he has the control.
You are so silly

 

[PK Cronin]

Rangers only scored 14 more goals than the Islanders last season, despite the Islanders having an abysmal PP and starting off the year with Capuano choking the life out of the offense. A full year under Weight, and with Eberle to give JT a scoring option on the left boards during the PP, not to mention the Rangers losing their #1 forward, and I could see the Islanders outscoring the Rangers next season. Rangers still have better goaltending and a true #1 Dman though, so they could still end up ahead of the Isles. But I don't see them as being the de facto better team.

Columbus also needs to show they're for real as a top team. After their win streak ended, they really came back to earth with 24-22-5 record, which is hardly a top team's record (is a pace for 85 points). Panarin is an upgrade in some ways over Saad, but Saad has such a great all around game that I don't see this move improving them notably.

Washington and Pittsburgh are the only teams I see as being definitively better, with the Isles being roughly on the same tier as Columbus and the Rangers.

I also don't think the Islanders had any player outscore their normal pace, everyone produced about on par with what they normally would or less than that. I'm very skeptical of the hot and cold Grabner putting up as many goals for the Rangers next season.

 

[LeapOnOver]

The Rangers defense is nothing to write home about. They just lost their #1 center in the offseason and they have very little depth in their system if they do have any significant injuries during the course of the season. I normally like your posts STK, but
I think that you are wrong about the Rangers-they are not that impressive. Columbus on the other hand, will be a very good team and I would not be surprised if they are better than the Islanders.

The same crap is said about the Rangers every year. Then, by December we'll be saying "They can't sustain this" and then come April we'll be conjecturing about them losing in a 1st round upset. I've learned to expect the Rangers will do well.

I don't think we are better than Columbus and I don't think last season was a fluke for them. I think we've creeped closer to the Capitals but aren't there yet. However, if things go our way we could surpass them in the standings.

 

[seafoam]

Every year I think the wheels are gonna fall off of the Rangers, and every year they're in the playoffs and typically winning a round.

Columbus is better than us I think. Vezina caliber goalie, depth up the wazoo, and Werenski-Jones is a hell of a pairing.

They might not be a 108 point team again, but I expect them to be the thick of things and a team to watch in the playoffs.

Washington will be competitve as long as they have Backstrom, Carlson, Holtby, and Ovechkin.

 

[Local290]

I really don't have much doubt that he will sign if the arena deal goes through.

But, I do worry about what he may know. The team may be being very transparent with him (as they should). For all we know, they have told him that if Belmont doesn't work they will be leaving. Which would be an obvious reason for the hold up.

 

[BMOK33]

Also, Lundqvist is no spring chicken anymore. And their backup is Ondrej Pavelec...a guy who couldn't crack the Jets roster last year and their goaltending was beyond horrid. Says a lot
I think the years of the rags riding Hank's coat tails are drawing to a close sooner rather than later

Lundqvist is more or less what derailed them in the Ottawa series. If he's even slightly above average they probably win that series