Player Discussion: John Tavares- Part IV

[Sidney the Kidney]

Rangers only scored 14 more goals than the Islanders last season, despite the Islanders having an abysmal PP and starting off the year with Capuano choking the life out of the offense. A full year under Weight, and with Eberle to give JT a scoring option on the left boards during the PP, not to mention the Rangers losing their #1 forward, and I could see the Islanders outscoring the Rangers next season. Rangers still have better goaltending and a true #1 Dman though, so they could still end up ahead of the Isles. But I don't see them as being the de facto better team.

My larger point with regards to the Rangers' offense is that every season people question their offense because they don't have that one big elite scorer, but every year they then proceed to finish top 10 in offense and show offense isn't an issue for them. So even if their offense does stumble a bit this year, IMO, it will still be good enough that it's not a "weakness" of theirs to drop them down the standings.

Their defense, by contrast, improved. They were better than the Isles last season with an anchor like Girardi on the team, so it stands to reason that their defense (and offense) will be improved with a guy like Shattenkirk getting those minutes instead.

Columbus also needs to show they're for real as a top team. After their win streak ended, they really came back to earth with 24-22-5 record, which is hardly a top team's record (is a pace for 85 points). Panarin is an upgrade in some ways over Saad, but Saad has such a great all around game that I don't see this move improving them notably.

The thing Columbus has going for them is they've got a really good top four on defense, with two guys who look like they could one day be in the conversation for the Norris (Jones and Werenski), and another guy who is incredibly underrated as a shutdown guy (Savard). IMO, their defense corps is superior to the Isles'. Add in a two-time Vezina winner in nets and their back end has the clear edge over the Isles.

Up front, they're sort of similar to the Rangers. They don't have that one stud offensive force, but they've got a tremendous amount of depth. Tavares is better than any one forward they have, but after that I'd probably take 3 or 4 of Columbus' forwards ahead of the next Islanders forward.

Washington and Pittsburgh are the only teams I see as being definitively better, with the Isles being roughly on the same tier as Columbus and the Rangers.

As surprising as it might seem, I don't see that big of a separation between the Caps and Pens, and the Jackets and Rangers. At least in the regular season. Where I think the Pens have the edge over those teams is their high end guys can take them farther in the playoffs when everyone plays a more tighter checking game, and scoring is at a premium and you need gamebreakers to win you games.

I also don't think the Islanders had any player outscore their normal pace, everyone produced about on par with what they normally would or less than that. I'm very skeptical of the hot and cold Grabner putting up as many goals for the Rangers next season.

Eh ... I don't know about that, PK. Anders Lee scored 34 goals and 52 points last year. His career high before that was 25. His career high in points was only 41. That's an increase of 9 goals and 11 points over his career bests. Bailey also shattered his career high in points, and Nick Leddy set a career high in both goals and points.

Could they reach those totals again? Maybe. But I think they "overachieved" just as much as any of the Rangers forwards did. If anything, some of the Rangers forwards who were expected to produce more (Nash, Zibanejad) under-performed.

 

[PK Cronin]

Eh ... I don't know about that, PK. Anders Lee scored 34 goals and 52 points last year. His career high before that was 25. His career high in points was only 41. That's an increase of 9 goals and 11 points over his career bests. Bailey also shattered his career high in points, and Nick Leddy set a career high in both goals and points.

Could they reach those totals again? Maybe. But I think they "overachieved" just as much as any of the Rangers forwards did. If anything, some of the Rangers forwards who were expected to produce more (Nash, Zibanejad) under-performed.

I think both Bailey and Lee benefited from top line minutes. If they didn't get career highs while playing nearly an entire season next to Tavares then they would've had serious issues. I guess I should've said that their production is on par with what I'd expect from them playing with Tavares and I think they hit them again pretty easily if they stay on that line. However, I fully expect both of them to regress in points if they aren't with Tavares.

Fair point about Nash and Zibanejad. Was Zibanejad's underperformance because of injury or because the expectations were too high?

 

[AIexisLafreniereNYR]

Apologizes I tend to be a lurker across rivals for no negativity..

If JT would ever think about signing with the Rangers it just proves that players don't really care which team they play for as long as it's a consistent playoff team and who pays the most $$$. Although we've seen some crazy **** in sports, JT ain't going anywhere especally since the Isles are a good team.

 

[doublechili]

Apologizes I tend to be a lurker across rivals for no negativity..

If JT would ever think about signing with the Rangers it just proves that players don't really care which team they play for as long as it's a consistent playoff team and who pays the most $$$. Although we've seen some crazy **** in sports, JT ain't going anywhere especally since the Isles are a good team.

Wait, is this some kind of Reverse Jinx?!?!

J/k, and thanks. But I don't know what it says about our posters when we have to rely upon a visiting NYR fan to supply some optimism!

 

[BMOK33]

The thing Columbus has going for them is they've got a really good top four on defense, with two guys who look like they could one day be in the conversation for the Norris (Jones and Werenski), and another guy who is incredibly underrated as a shutdown guy (Savard). IMO, their defense corps is superior to the Isles'. Add in a two-time Vezina winner in nets and their back end has the clear edge over the Isles.

Up front, they're sort of similar to the Rangers. They don't have that one stud offensive force, but they've got a tremendous amount of depth. Tavares is better than any one forward they have, but after that I'd probably take 3 or 4 of Columbus' forwards ahead of the next Islanders forward.



As surprising as it might seem, I don't see that big of a separation between the Caps and Pens, and the Jackets and Rangers. At least in the regular season. Where I think the Pens have the edge over those teams is their high end guys can take them farther in the playoffs when everyone plays a more tighter checking game, and scoring is at a premium and you need gamebreakers to win you games.

Pittsburgh may have a so so season this year due to minimal roster turnover since 2016 and hence most of these guys have played like 200 games in 2 years. We saw how awful the Rangers looked down the stretch and in the playoffs in 2016 after they had done that themselves the preceding 2-3 seasons. Remember Pittsburgh had an apparent cup hangover last season for most of the first half. It's likely to happen again at a worse level this time. I have a feeling neither Washington nor Pittsburgh will win the division this year

 

[Ori]

I think both Bailey and Lee benefited from top line minutes. If they didn't get career highs while playing nearly an entire season next to Tavares then they would've had serious issues. I guess I should've said that their production is on par with what I'd expect from them playing with Tavares and I think they hit them again pretty easily if they stay on that line. However, I fully expect both of them to regress in points if they aren't with Tavares.

Fair point about Nash and Zibanejad. Was Zibanejad's underperformance because of injury or because the expectations were too high?

I`m a Ranger fan, but it was a little of both of injury and probably too high expectations in the beginning of the season consider Zibanejad overall talent level.
Nash have struggled for two seasons now with the Rangers and low pts. production (30-40), but it has always been up for discussion if Nash is an elite player or not. But one thing is certain that his 7+ mil contract is certainly not worth it and this season is his contract year and I`ve notion that Jeff Gorton will move him end of this season. (2017-2018)

Anyway we`ve a fantasy discussion at the Ranger forum how we are suppose to sign John Tavares. And I said it will never happen, because of Rivalries between the two clubs, and at least in soccer a star player in Barcelona will never sign for Real Madrid in soccer or vice versa in La Liga.

 

[Bexlyspeed]

I`m a Ranger fan, but it was a little of both of injury and probably too high expectations in the beginning of the season consider Zibanejad overall talent level.
Nash have struggled for two seasons now with the Rangers and low pts. production (30-40), but it has always been up for discussion if Nash is an elite player or not. But one thing is certain that his 7+ mil contract is certainly not worth it and this season is his contract year and I`ve notion that Jeff Gorton will move him end of this season. (2017-2018)

Anyway we`ve a fantasy discussion at the Ranger forum how we are suppose to sign John Tavares. And I said it will never happen, because of Rivalries between the two clubs, and at least in soccer a star player in Barcelona will never sign for Real Madrid in soccer or vice versa in La Liga.

It's happened. Luis Figo went straight from Barca to Madrid !

 

[Bexlyspeed]

I`m a Ranger fan, but it was a little of both of injury and probably too high expectations in the beginning of the season consider Zibanejad overall talent level.
Nash have struggled for two seasons now with the Rangers and low pts. production (30-40), but it has always been up for discussion if Nash is an elite player or not. But one thing is certain that his 7+ mil contract is certainly not worth it and this season is his contract year and I`ve notion that Jeff Gorton will move him end of this season. (2017-2018)

Anyway we`ve a fantasy discussion at the Ranger forum how we are suppose to sign John Tavares. And I said it will never happen, because of Rivalries between the two clubs, and at least in soccer a star player in Barcelona will never sign for Real Madrid in soccer or vice versa in La Liga.

It's happened. Luis Figo went straight from Barca to Madrid !

 

[Islesfan22]

It's happened. Luis Figo went straight from Barca to Madrid !

Maybe we will see Messi go to Real Madrid.

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

Maybe we will see Messi go to Real Madrid.

Where is Pele playing these days?
He was good the last time I paid any attention to Soccer.

 

[Brunomics]

This is what I don't get about JT leaving as a free agent. Look around the league. You have the cream of the crop and then everyone else. Well the cream of the crop won't have room to sign him and for what he is going to sign for he's not elevating any other team to that status. The Isles are just as good a team as say Montreal or any other team.

It's all arena.

 

[redbull]

This is what I don't get about JT leaving as a free agent. Look around the league. You have the cream of the crop and then everyone else. Well the cream of the crop won't have room to sign him and for what he is going to sign for he's not elevating any other team to that status. The Isles are just as good a team as say Montreal or any other team.

It's all arena.

making a 7-8 year commitment cannot be to an organization that looks good today, because things can change rapidly. Does Tavares trust the organization (ownership, primarily, since GMs and coaches come and go - though not on Long Island)? I don't think anyone here really knows. Adding the cloud over the arena surely doesn't help.

I'm nervous as hell, as are many on this board, but I still think he's going to re-sign before next July.

Most (if not ALL) teams can make the money work to get Tavares signed, no doubt about it. But the "cream of the crop" as it appears today may be dramatically different in 2-3 years. See LA Kings.

I think teams with so much young talent and rich owners (EDM/TOR/BUF) are rare, they MAY become superpowers for an extended period, but who knows.

 

[PK Cronin]

Latest Staple tweet:

"Andrew Ladd on Tavares talk: "I think we know more in here than everybody else on the outside, so we’re comfortable where it’s at."

 

[Kevin27NYI]

Anders Lee comfortable too.

I think JT is committed to the Isles pretty thoroughly, the team and front office. Just wants to see what the arena situation is. Fair enough.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Latest Staple tweet:

"Andrew Ladd on Tavares talk: "I think we know more in here than everybody else on the outside, so we’re comfortable where it’s at."

Well that's a positive one....

 

[SI90]

Latest Staple tweet:

"Andrew Ladd on Tavares talk: "I think we know more in here than everybody else on the outside, so we’re comfortable where it’s at."

Savy veteran move. He and the boys don't know ****. He's trying to kill the distractions before they start.

 

[aronjudge11]

This is what I don't get about JT leaving as a free agent. Look around the league. You have the cream of the crop and then everyone else. Well the cream of the crop won't have room to sign him and for what he is going to sign for he's not elevating any other team to that status. The Isles are just as good a team as say Montreal or any other team.

It's all arena.

every team in hockey will scrape 8 or 9 million together for tavares. it will take them 2 hours to do it. im sure every team has plan in place to do such a thing incase any superstar suddenly becomes available. sure u lose players u like...but the team with the most superstars usually wins in the end.

 

[TheWhiteWhale30]

Latest Staple tweet:

"Andrew Ladd on Tavares talk: "I think we know more in here than everybody else on the outside, so we’re comfortable where it’s at."

Not worried. So many players now basically saying he is staying. Martin, Lee, Ladd etc... People who keep saying this is all word games are just reaching to be negative. I'm done worrying. He will sign. If I had any doubt as a teammate...I would simply say "Out of respect to John I will not speak on his situation" plain and simple there is nothing wrong with saying that...yet no one is. All are saying not worried and we know more then you, yet people get worked up by negative HF posters who don't know diddly lol Not this guy.

 

[IslandersFan17]

Not worried. So many players now basically saying he is staying. Martin, Lee, Ladd etc... People who keep saying this is all word games are just reaching to be negative. I'm done worrying. He will sign. If I had any doubt as a teammate...I would simply say "Out of respect to John I will not speak on his situation" plain and simple there is nothing wrong with saying that...yet no one is. All are saying not worried and we know more then you, yet people get worked up by negative HF posters who don't know diddly lol Not this guy.

Not one of them said he was staying. They said they aren't worried about the situation and understand where he's at.

Aka we are going to try and deflect the distraction and not let it become the elephant in the locker room.

Tavares isn't signing without the RFP approval and even then it's still not a guarantee.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Not one of them said he was staying. They said they aren't worried about the situation and understand where he's at.

Aka we are going to try and deflect the distraction and not let it become the elephant in the locker room.

Tavares isn't signing without the RFP approval and even then it's still not a guarantee.

This is what Lee said:

"I'm not worried about Johnny [returning] in the slightest. He means everything he says, and he's a great teammate and a great player and leader. He's the captain of our team and I don't expect that to change."

 

[IslandersFan17]

This is what Lee said:

"I'm not worried about Johnny [returning] in the slightest. He means everything he says, and he's a great teammate and a great player and leader. He's the captain of our team and I don't expect that to change."

Again, PC 101. At no point does lee come out directly say Tavares is staying.

He's saying what he's supposed to in order to prevent this from being a distraction.

"He means everything he says..." where has tavares said he's staying? Tavares has said their is open dialouge, but nothing implying he's staying.

All of his teammates are going to give their best answers to avoid media speculation running rampant.

I mean, everyone and their mother is saying it will hinge on our future of where we are playing, so does Lee know something we don't?

Because hard to guarantee Tavares staying without knowing our long term arena situation.

 

[TheWhiteWhale30]

This is what Lee said:

"I'm not worried about Johnny [returning] in the slightest. He means everything he says, and he's a great teammate and a great player and leader. He's the captain of our team and I don't expect that to change."

Don't even bother man lol Some people are going to continue to stay the course on their negativity. Like I've said a hundred times. All players could easily say " Out of respect to John I will not comment" and that would be a great comment...yet no one is going that route all are saying they are not worried about him leaving, when they do not have to. Ladd even throws a little jab as did one other teammate can't remember who "we know more than everyone else" as in "we know you dont...relax". Some just won't stop man. I get people's doubts but it's time to read between the lines and stop with the "everyone is lieing and what do you expect them to say" lol they don't have to say ****.....that's what some don't understand.....no matter how much they try to ease nerves people will keep manipulating why it's being said to fit their own negative agenda.

 

[IslandersFan17]

Don't even bother man lol Some people are going to continue to stay the course on their negativity. Like I've said a hundred times. All players could easily say " Out of respect to John I will not comment" and that would be a great comment...yet no one is going that route all are saying they are not worried about him leaving, when they do not have to. Ladd even throws a little jab as did one other teammate can't remember who "we know more than everyone else" as in "we know you dont...relax". Some just won't stop man. I get people's doubts but it's time to read between the lines and stop with the "everyone is lieing and what do you expect them to say" lol they don't have to say ****.....that's what some don't understand.....no matter how much they try to ease nerves people will keep manipulating why it's being said to fit their own negative agenda.

Are you going to act like people who oppose your OPINION don't want Tavares to stay?

I want Tavares to stay as much as the next fan. I have my two year old chanting let's go islanders in a semi-homemade Tavares shirt/jersey. JT is the fabric of this team and I would be crushed if he left.

However, to grasp at all these players comments and ignore the fact that he's still not signed and everyone else says the long term future of the team is what's most crucial...

Unless these players know that said long term future, none of them can be as confident in him staying as you are making it out to be.

 

[Rehabguy]

Don't even bother man lol Some people are going to continue to stay the course on their negativity. Like I've said a hundred times. All players could easily say " Out of respect to John I will not comment" and that would be a great comment...yet no one is going that route all are saying they are not worried about him leaving, when they do not have to. Ladd even throws a little jab as did one other teammate can't remember who "we know more than everyone else" as in "we know you dont...relax". Some just won't stop man. I get people's doubts but it's time to read between the lines and stop with the "everyone is lieing and what do you expect them to say" lol they don't have to say ****.....that's what some don't understand.....no matter how much they try to ease nerves people will keep manipulating why it's being said to fit their own negative agenda.

I know man jeez. I stay away from these boards weeks at a time and I see the same tire argument over and over again. There has never been any doubt in my mind that John Tavares will resign with the New York Islanders. And you are right, his teammates are relaying to the fans with statements of 99.9999% certainty that John Tavares wants and will remain and Islander but they're leaving that 00.00001% uncertainty for the owners in the hopes that he may influence with any clout that he possess a positive direction for the Islanders arena situation, ice situation etc.

But instead of having that desired effect the 00.00001% uncertainty has caused 99% of the HF boards fanbase to have a collective mental break down.

That's sad, really sad. Never change Islander fans, never change.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Again, PC 101. At no point does lee come out directly say Tavares is staying.

He's saying what he's supposed to in order to prevent this from being a distraction.

"He means everything he says..." where has tavares said he's staying? Tavares has said their is open dialouge, but nothing implying he's staying.

All of his teammates are going to give their best answers to avoid media speculation running rampant.

I mean, everyone and their mother is saying it will hinge on our future of where we are playing, so does Lee know something we don't?

Because hard to guarantee Tavares staying without knowing our long term arena situation.

"I'm not worried about Johnny [returning] in the slightest." is pretty far from PC 101. So are many of the comments JT has made about wanting and expecting to stay. Of course it guarantees nothing but at the very least, it is encouraging. Staple also believes he will sign.

As a fan, I'll take that over the standard, non-committal "We'll see what happens, it's up to my agent and GM" type comments.

I'm not naive to think that the possibility of JT leaving doesn't exist. But I wouldn't dismiss these comments as BS either.