Jack, Dahlin, Reinhart vs Matthews, Marner, Rielly

[Atomos2]

Here is a fact, Rielly choked up the puck again last night, directly resulting in a goal against. The guy is lost in his own end.

OMG! Send him to the AHL!!!

 

[Space Coyote]

Thinking about it, since this is the next 10 years we are talking about, how can anyone pick toronto?

Reilly is 25 and Dahlin is 19. Enjoy your 30yr old player while we have a 24 year old Norris stud.

We heard this 4 years ago. I remember when Buffalo won the McEichel lottery almost everyone on these boards claimed that the Sabres were years ahead of Toronto in their rebuild because Eichel, Reinhart, Ristolainen >>> Nylander, Marner, Rielly and Babcock made a huge mistake picking the Leafs over them.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Eichel over Matthews slightly.

Dahlin over Rielly substantially.

Marner over Reinhart even more substantially.

Slight advantage to Toronto.

 

[paulmm3]

Jack = Auston
Mitch > Sam
Dahlin >> Reilly

And that's no knock on Reilly. This is strictly me trying to project each player in a vacuum the next 10 years

 

[The S5]

OMG! Send him to the AHL!!!

I never said anything remotely like that. I just don't think a guy who isn't a complete player should be getting votes for an award given to the best player at that position.

 

[The S5]

You should know by now that EVERY single Leaf sucks defensively.

No, just Rielly.

 

[sparxx87]

I never said anything remotely like that. I just don't think a guy who isn't a complete player should be getting votes for an award given to the best player at that position.

Erik Karlsson and Brent Burns have never been accused of defending well without the puck - Do you not think they should have gotten votes?

Rielly hasn’t been sharp to start the year but he’s most often a very good defender. Not among the elite defensively, but still very good. Suggesting otherwise makes me question whether you understand his role and responsibilities.

 

[The S5]

Erik Karlsson and Brent Burns have never been accused of defending well without the puck - Do you not think they should have gotten votes?

Rielly hasn’t been sharp to start the year but he’s most often a very good defender. Not among the elite defensively, but still very good. Suggesting otherwise makes me question whether you understand his role and responsibilities.

I think both players mentioned are terrible and average respectively.
Look, I can put a playmaking wing on D and have him out there in all advantageous situation. He might put up 70 points. Does that make him a good defenseman?
I'm not stating that these guys are bad players. I just don't think they should be up for awards where they are not anywhere near the top in a skill critical to playing their position.
Maybe there should be a new award....Best Offensive Defenseman...a reverse-Selke for D.

 

[sparxx87]

I think both players mentioned are terrible and average respectively.
Look, I can put a playmaking wing on D and have him out there in all advantageous situation. He might put up 70 points. Does that make him a good defenseman?
I'm not stating that these guys are bad players. I just don't think they should be up for awards where they are not anywhere near the top in a skill critical to playing their position.
Maybe there should be a new award....Best Offensive Defenseman...a reverse-Selke for D.

I agree, I’ve been saying it for years. Most proficient at the position and top scorer aren’t usually the same player.

I just don’t agree with your assessment of Morgan Rielly. As someone whose watched his game evolve under Mike Babcock, I think he deserves a lot of credit.

 

[Martin Skoula]

I think both players mentioned are terrible and average respectively.
Look, I can put a playmaking wing on D and have him out there in all advantageous situation. He might put up 70 points. Does that make him a good defenseman?
I'm not stating that these guys are bad players. I just don't think they should be up for awards where they are not anywhere near the top in a skill critical to playing their position.
Maybe there should be a new award....Best Offensive Defenseman...a reverse-Selke for D.

That winger would get scored on more often than his team scored, him being on the ice would be counterproductive.

Rielly was on the ice for 115 goals for at even strength, he would have to be actively shooting at Andersen for his defensive impact to be worse than his offensive one.

I have a feeling top offensive guys would prefer to be going up against shotblocking defensive D than being stuck in their own end all night because Rielly's pushing the puck up constantly.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

That winger would get scored on more often than his team scored, him being on the ice would be counterproductive.

Rielly was on the ice for 115 goals for at even strength, he would have to be actively shooting at Andersen for his defensive impact to be worse than his offensive one.

I have a feeling top offensive guys would prefer to be going up against shotblocking defensive D than being stuck in their own end all night because Rielly's pushing the puck up constantly.

He certainly ranks high in the "for" categories. But I don't think anyone was disputing his ability with the puck in transition/offense. Him being so low in the "against" categories does lend evidence that he wasn't very good in his own zone.

(ES with 1000 or more minutes played)
SA/60 - 2nd worst
CA/60 - 7th worst
FA/60 - 3rd worst
SCA/60 - 8th worst
HDCA/60 - 18th worst

As for the bolded, I'm not so sure how accurate that description is given that most of his "for/against" rates fall roughly within the 49-53% range. It's not like he's absolutely tilting the ice in the offensive side of the rink to offset his questionable numbers when the puck is in the Leafs' zone.

 

[Atomos2]

Yep I'm gauranting it. Dahlin is Dahlin.
Wins this argument in skill alone, nevermind their ages in 5 years. It's gonna happen. Not sorry.

Also never said Reinhart was better but that doesn't change the fact he is underrated so...



Oh my bad bro I forgot, you are right.

Eichel being the 4th best forward in toronto is just as bad so I guess it's a tie between that and the Dahlin one I quoted.

You must be related to the Finnish fan who guaranteed Laine will score 120 goals in his prime. In one season

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Tough call.
Best will be Dahlin and worst will be Reinhart imo.
I’d take the Sabres trio because I think a clear number one D is the most important piece to build around. Rielly brings good offense but he’s pretty weak defensively so he just can’t bring the same level as Dahlin.

 

[GOALOFSSON]

You must be related to the Finnish fan who guaranteed Laine will score 120 goals in his prime. In one season

Totally the same bar.
Congratulations.

 

[Snippit]

I think both players mentioned are terrible and average respectively.
Look, I can put a playmaking wing on D and have him out there in all advantageous situation. He might put up 70 points. Does that make him a good defenseman?
I'm not stating that these guys are bad players. I just don't think they should be up for awards where they are not anywhere near the top in a skill critical to playing their position.
Maybe there should be a new award....Best Offensive Defenseman...a reverse-Selke for D.

So is nobody going to call this guy out for the scorching hot take that Karlsson is terrible and Burns is average?

 

[Highmarker]

Toronto's trio easily. Marner and Matthews are both easy takes over Reinhart and Eichel. Rielly is a norris contender at this point i have no issues in taking him over Dahlin either.

 

[IPS]

Toronto's trio easily. Marner and Matthews are both easy takes over Reinhart and Eichel. Rielly is a norris contender at this point i have no issues in taking him over Dahlin either.

Same here. I wouldn't be shocked if Dahlin never reaches Rielly's current level.

 

[Atomos2]

Totally the same bar.
Congratulations.

Yes because guaranteeing a 19 year old defenceman as a generational player is totally rational. My mistake.

 

[GOALOFSSON]

Yes because guaranteeing a 19 year old defenceman as a generational player is totally rational. My mistake.

Your mistake indeed.

Same here. I wouldn't be shocked if Dahlin never reaches Rielly's current level.

I know it's you and all, but... yikes.

He'll be there by season's end if not already.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

Matthews > Eichel (Slightly)
Marner > Reinhart (By a lot)
Rielly > Dahlin (Probably not for long tho)

Toronto's trio is better right now across the board.

I think Eichel and Reinhart will always remain behind their counterparts. However, Dahlin will jump in front of Rielly very soon.

 

[The S5]

So is nobody going to call this guy out for the scorching hot take that Karlsson is terrible and Burns is average?

I'm sure NHL19 ranks them really high.

 

[Highmarker]

Your mistake indeed.




I know it's you and all, but... yikes.

He'll be there by season's end if not already.

at this point i'd take Rielly at what he is rather than gamble on Dahlin. Especially when Marner and Matthews are both better than Eichel and Reinhart. Dahlin could very well surpass Rielly this year but i don't think he'll surpass him by a large enough margin to choose the Buffalo trio.
Reilly put up 20 goals and was almost a ppg last year. Most d men rarely put up those numbers in their career.

 

[Snippit]

I'm sure NHL19 ranks them really high.

And the rest of the hockey world, yes

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I’d take Dahlin over Reilly right now and the gap is only going to get bigger. This kid is going to be a very special all round two way defenseman.

 

[thadd]

Eichel = Matthews
Dahlin >>>>> Rielly
Marner >> Reinhart

I think that's more fair.