Jack, Dahlin, Reinhart vs Matthews, Marner, Rielly

[typicalsavage]

Be careful with calling Rielly a top 7 defender. He is middle of the pack at best and feeds off of playing with amazingly talented forwards.

Even if he puts up 50 points thats still better than most dmen,

 

[Halla]

Dahlin is a FAR superior defender. He may not put up the number of points that Rielly does, but he also isn't continually on the ice with high production players.
Rielly is a good overall player, but I'm pretty sure there are at least 20 other defensemen who would put up his numbers and play a better defense if put in his position.

wait...20 other dmen who would put up 72 pts playing in toronto with PP time?

I call BS on that big time. what a terrible take. There are 5-10 guys max that have that ability. The "product of the team" argument to devalue a player is absolute garbage. We don't hear a peep about that when discussing stamkos/kucherov/hedman or crosby/malkin/letang etc

 

[Halla]

I think its time to lock it up. 70% feel the leafs are better. then there are 30% who are sabres fans/hate the leafs

am34>eichel
Rielly=Dahlin
Marner>>>Reinhart

not close

 

[dire wolf]

I think its time to lock it up. 70% feel the leafs are better. then there are 30% who are sabres fans/hate the leafs

am34>eichel
Rielly=Dahlin
Marner>>>Reinhart

not close

I love when people put things like "not close." It's extremely close if you're being honest. Saying Rielly = Dahlin is puzzling, at best. The poll asks who you would rather have going forward.

First of all, Dahlin is 6 years younger, so even if you think they are roughly comparable in quality, you're going to get a lot of extra years out of Dahlin.

Second of all, Rielly didn't even hit 40 points until he was 23 and the Leafs stacked their roster. Dahlin did that at 18 on a garbage Buffalo team. Rielly was still in juniors at that age. I think they are roughly comparable defensively at this point, but Dahlin's ceiling is much higher. Dahlin is clearly a better choice going forward. I don't see how you can credibly argue otherwise.

Marner is definitely better than Reinhart to date. The question is how much. That's what makes this poll interesting. Personally, I don't think the difference is enough to make up for Dahlin. Matthews and Eichel are close enough not to sway the poll in either direction for me.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

wait...20 other dmen who would put up 72 pts playing in toronto with PP time?

I call BS on that big time. what a terrible take. There are 5-10 guys max that have that ability. The "product of the team" argument to devalue a player is absolute garbage. We don't hear a peep about that when discussing stamkos/kucherov/hedman or crosby/malkin/letang etc

I call BS on the bolded. We hear that all the time on HF whenever the discussion of where Letang ranks as a defenseman league wide comes up. "LOL he only puts up those points because of the forwards he plays with. Anyone would pile up points passing to Crosby and Malkin".

 

[Atomos2]

I love when people put things like "not close." It's extremely close if you're being honest. Saying Rielly = Dahlin is puzzling, at best. The poll asks who you would rather have going forward.

First of all, Dahlin is 6 years younger, so even if you think they are roughly comparable in quality, you're going to get a lot of extra years out of Dahlin.

Second of all, Rielly didn't even hit 40 points until he was 23 and the Leafs stacked their roster. Dahlin did that at 18 on a garbage Buffalo team. Rielly was still in juniors at that age. I think they are roughly comparable defensively at this point, but Dahlin's ceiling is much higher. Dahlin is clearly a better choice going forward. I don't see how you can credibly argue otherwise.

Marner is definitely better than Reinhart to date. The question is how much. That's what makes this poll interesting. Personally, I don't think the difference is enough to make up for Dahlin. Matthews and Eichel are close enough not to sway the poll in either direction for me.

Rielly is a top 10 defenceman already. Even if you expect Dahlin to be significantly better in the future, if you’re using age in one argument it seems incredibly ignorant to act oblivious to it in the other. Marner is already significantly better than Reinhart and is younger as well. At the very least the difference between Marner and Reinhart is the same as Dahlin and Rielly. At the very least. You’re overrating Dahlin significantly until he shows a clear advantage over Rielly similar to the clear advantage Marner has shown over Reinhart who hasn’t shown to be better than Marner at any stage.

 

[Aladyyn]

top 10 lmfao

 

[Snippit]

im honestly surprised that the leafs are sub 70% despite having the best 2 players in the poll

Well HF has consistently had Eichel ahead of Marner(unless Rielly was supposed to be one of the two?)

 

[The S5]

wait...20 other dmen who would put up 72 pts playing in toronto with PP time?

I call BS on that big time. what a terrible take. There are 5-10 guys max that have that ability. The "product of the team" argument to devalue a player is absolute garbage. We don't hear a peep about that when discussing stamkos/kucherov/hedman or crosby/malkin/letang etc

Look, Rielly is a dumpster fire in his own end. You may not like it or agree, but it plays out on a regular basis.
Yes, he has offensive ability, but when you look up and every time you are on the ice, so is any combo of Marner, Matthews, Tavares, Nylander, your ability to put up points increases exponentially. I don't see him as a driver of offense. Guys like Karlsson, Burns, Hedman drive offense. Rielly is more of a passenger.

 

[Atomos2]

top 10 lmfao

Cute. But 72 points and leading all dmen in goal scoring and top 5 Norris finishing regardless of your excuses. If you don’t consider Rielly just as much of an offensive threat as any leaf than that’s your opinion. Regardless TSN and Nhl.com has him in the top 10. So I’ll go with them. Especially over anyone who thinks Reinhart is anywhere close to Marner’s level.

 

[The Podium]

Second of all, Rielly didn't even hit 40 points until he was 23 and the Leafs stacked their roster. Dahlin did that at 18 on a garbage Buffalo team. Rielly was still in juniors at that age. I think they are roughly comparable defensively at this point, but Dahlin's ceiling is much higher. Dahlin is clearly a better choice going forward. I don't see how you can credibly argue otherwise.

Babcock intentionally neutered Rielly's offence because Babcock knew that part of his game was there and wanted him to learn how to play defence. It was not until he got top PP time that his offence exploded.

I think Dahlin will be better, but youre talking about one of the best D in the league. I think even if he hits his potential the gap between Rielly and Dahlin is still smaller than the gap between Marner and Reinhart.

 

[The Podium]

top 10 lmfao

Rielly has never had even a top 4D partner

 

[GOALOFSSON]

Cute. But 72 points and leading all dmen in goal scoring and top 5 Norris finishing regardless of your excuses. If you don’t consider Rielly just as much of an offensive threat as any leaf than that’s your opinion. Regardless TSN and Nhl.com has him in the top 10. So I’ll go with them. Especially over anyone who thinks Reinhart is anywhere close to Marner’s level.

 

[Atomos2]

Lol right. Why trust them when we have your credibility

 

[GOALOFSSON]

Lol right. Why trust them when we have your credibility

You can trust me when I say Dahlin is being underrated

 

[dire wolf]

Sorry, but I'm not buying this hype. Up until last year -- his 6th in the league -- he was never considered a top tier defensemen (by non-Toronto fans). He's had literally 1 truly impressive offensive campaign, and his defensive game is certainly not top tier. For most of his career, his offensive numbers were decent and his defensive game was below average. If Dahlin only turns out to be a little better than Rielly in his career, it will be considered a massive disappointment. I don't know if Dahlin will be multiple Norris winner or not, but the purpose of this thread is to project who you would rather have going forward. Dahlin is projected to be better offensively and defensively than Rielly, and will do it for many more years. To me, that more than makes up for the delta between Marner and Reinhart (who is also being under-rated in this thread)

 

[McKappa]

Matthews >= Eichel
Dahlin >> Rielly
Marner >>>>>>> Reinhart

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

'Going forward' (= personal bias)

Eichel >= Matthews (slim edge Eichel)
Dahlin > Reilly*
Reinhart <<<< Marner

*Rielly is clearly better right now, Dahlin is an absolute stud with higher upside & age advantage.

Voted Buffalo b/c I'm such a fan of Eichel+Dahlin. Marner tips the scales to Toronto right now. A vote for Buffalo is purely betting on potential which I am.

 

[valet]

So Sabre fans can say Dahlin will be 100% better than Rielly but as soon as a Leafs fan suggests Auston Matthews could one day reach MacKinnon level HF goes nuts

I guess mcdavid could one day reach Gretzky level, then

give me a break. Lol

Matthews will never get to MacKinnon's level. He doesn't have the physical or mental tools to do so

 

[Dekes For Days]

Matthews will never get to MacKinnon's level.

He is already there.

 

[Atomos2]

Sorry, but I'm not buying this hype. Up until last year -- his 6th in the league -- he was never considered a top tier defensemen (by non-Toronto fans). He's had literally 1 truly impressive offensive campaign, and his defensive game is certainly not top tier. For most of his career, his offensive numbers were decent and his defensive game was below average. If Dahlin only turns out to be a little better than Rielly in his career, it will be considered a massive disappointment. I don't know if Dahlin will be multiple Norris winner or not, but the purpose of this thread is to project who you would rather have going forward. Dahlin is projected to be better offensively and defensively than Rielly, and will do it for many more years. To me, that more than makes up for the delta between Marner and Reinhart (who is also being under-rated in this thread)

Umm it’s called a breakout season. Players have it all the time. Go take a look at Mackinnon. And yes Rielly was considered a top tier defenceman the year before when he put up 52 points in like 76 games (which I consider impressive regardless of your standards). Go look at the Rielly threads at the time. People had him as a solid #1 close to top 20 but not in it yet.

And Reinhart is being underrated?? Seriously. Underrated at being what a 94 pt winger? Reinhart has done dick all to show he’s being underrated compared to Marner. He’s at Nylander level. You want to know who’s being underrated, the guy who was a top 5 f***ing Norris contender last year.
Unbelievably hypocritical.

 

[Signupnow]

Sabres trio is doing pretty good right now.. I wonder what people will think by seasons end.. Taking youth, contracts into consideration going forward.

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

Still take the Toronto trio. I actually think Dahlin is going to be the best player of the six, while Matthews/Marner/Eichel/Rielly are in the same ballpark in terms of impact.

Then there's Reinhart, a fine player who feels out of place in this grouping entirely.

 

[Voight]

Toronto trio, they have some playoff experience plus have performed better.

 

[Team Cozens]

Yupp and by that time Buffalo still won't even be making the playoffs.

Leafs might not make the playoffs this year