Helm may be better, but he doesn't fit with offensive minded players. He has no passing ability.
Andersson doesn't have Helm's physical abilities, but he's a smarter player with more awareness and better passing ability
Helm may be better, but he doesn't fit with offensive minded players. He has no passing ability.
Andersson doesn't have Helm's physical abilities, but he's a smarter player with more awareness and better passing ability
The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
I don't know how much I buy that. Don't get me wrong, Helm is no Marc Savard or Joe Thornton from a passing standpoint, but his assist potential hasn't been reached IMO. The best offensive goal scorer that Helm has regularly played with the past few years is who - Patrick Eaves? Those two had decent chemistry, and that all pretty much revolved around Helm cycling the puck until Eaves would sneak into the high slot and receive a pass from Helm which he'd fire on net. Several of Eaves goals pre-injury were of that nature. We seen what happened when Datsyuk was playing with Abdelkader and Cleary as his two wingers - he was only picking up assists on defenceman goals and banking it off of Abdelkader. When even one of the better playmakers in the world struggles to create goals for grinding wingers, Helm is going to struggle.
I think his solo ability to cycle in the offensive zone opens up a lot of passing lanes for him that most players don't get. I remember thinking when Tatar was up that he and Helm might potentially make a productive 3rd line because of Tatar's offensive zone awareness.
And when it comes to Andersson, where exactly has he shown to be a better passer? And keep in mind that Andersson has played with far superior offensive talent than Helm has. There's no doubt in my mind that Brunner-Helm-Nyquist is just as if not more effective then the line with Andy in the middle... And they were pretty darn effective.
Didn't Helm play with Hudler for a year or two?
Helm makes plays happen with speed and quick reaction plays. He's not a playmaker. He doesn't seem to see the ice well at all.
If he did -- with his speed, he'd be amazing
Helm makes plays happen with speed and quick reaction plays. He's not a playmaker. He doesn't seem to see the ice well at all.
If he did -- with his speed, he'd be amazing
I'd much rather Helm's speed on the 3rd line with any 2 of Nyquist, Brunner or Tatar. Helm can be the forechecker, and the guy who retrieves pucks, the other 2 can provide the majority of the offence.
That would give us a 3rd line that would give any opposition fits.
Personally I think Helm is better than Andersson in every facet of the game, with the exception of durability.
If he did it was in his rookie season or in 2009 as a sophmore.
In his last 2 seasons he's played with Miller and Cleary then Miller and Eaves.
Vladdy84
L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y
The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
He played with him quite a bit during the 07-08 postseason, but you have to keep in mind that Helm was a regular in two straight postseasons before he played as a regular during the regular season. It seems like he's been on the team forever because of his impact and energy from those two long playoff runs, but Helm's first full regular season was 09-10.
And yeah I'm not saying that Helm has a pure playmaker's vision, but his speed and ability to carry and cycle the puck open up a lot of simple passing lanes for him. And IMO he knows how to find them. And if he's feeding the puck to Nyquist, Tatar, or Brunner rather than Eaves, Miller, and Abdelkader, that's going to increase his assist totals by a bit I have to imagine. Helm is a good at sustaining the puck in offensive zone. Surround him with guys that have skill and know how to find the back of the net and he can be successful in my mind. Personally, I'd rather have Helm on Datsyuk's wing than Abdelkader. Just because he's a better puck possession player and forechecker. But obviously he's going to be utilized as a center with Babcock, assuming he's healthy and playing.
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nothing against andersson, love all the talk about the 3rd line, if helm is out andy is a great replacement, super solid 2 way guy. but a tatar helm brunner line or tatar helm gus line would be sick.
again no hate on andy i think he will be solid, and did great as his first real year with DET. but like people said he has real potential. but if you look at it, he had 4g 3a this season(not playoffs) 2 goals came in 1 game where we smoke Vancouver. and im pretty sure all 3 apples were to tatar. people saying hes a better play maker than helm i think is kind of crazy, every game i watched he was real responsible in both ends but he usually just dished it out to gus who flew into the other teams zone and tried to find brunner. helm has put up better numbers on the 3rd line with worse offensive linemates. i mean miller/eaves/cleary v gus/brunner.
If helm is healthy andy is a great 4th line C, but i think the question is do you have tats/helm/gus or tats/helm/brunner with gus with Z or pav? I think gus and tats would be awesome but then you have to trust brunner with a top 6 role. But who knows maybe he gets stronger this offseason.
again no hate on andy i think he will be solid, and did great as his first real year with DET. but like people said he has real potential. but if you look at it, he had 4g 3a this season(not playoffs) 2 goals came in 1 game where we smoke Vancouver. and im pretty sure all 3 apples were to tatar. people saying hes a better play maker than helm i think is kind of crazy, every game i watched he was real responsible in both ends but he usually just dished it out to gus who flew into the other teams zone and tried to find brunner. helm has put up better numbers on the 3rd line with worse offensive linemates. i mean miller/eaves/cleary v gus/brunner.
If helm is healthy andy is a great 4th line C, but i think the question is do you have tats/helm/gus or tats/helm/brunner with gus with Z or pav? I think gus and tats would be awesome but then you have to trust brunner with a top 6 role. But who knows maybe he gets stronger this offseason.
Cyborg Yzerberg
Registered User
I don't want Emmerton back next year, and Ideally, Andersson is behind Pavs, possibly Z(if he's a center), (Weiss, if signed), and Helm.
Andersson is better than Helm by default; he can skate. I doubt you see Helm until Decemeber and don't expect him to come out skating like a bat out of Hell because he will be afraid to blow out his back at first. Plan for January or February to see a 100% Helm, assuming he ever gets back (pun intended) to 100%. I hate it, but at this point it's time to start looking ahead.
I think you replace Nyquist with Brunner though, Brunner will never be able to play in the top 6. Let Andersson park himself in front of the net, Brunner can camp the slot and Tatar will be able to dance around opposing teams third lines' and either create a chance for himself or for Brunner. I've said it before and I'll say it again, a line of Brunner - Andersson - Tatar could do some serious damage vs other teams' third lines.
I think you replace Nyquist with Brunner though, Brunner will never be able to play in the top 6. Let Andersson park himself in front of the net, Brunner can camp the slot and Tatar will be able to dance around opposing teams third lines' and either create a chance for himself or for Brunner. I've said it before and I'll say it again, a line of Brunner - Andersson - Tatar could do some serious damage vs other teams' third lines.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
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Only problem with that line is they aren't great defensively. Brunner is still pretty one-dimensional, though his defense has improved, and Tatar's two-way play has improved as well, but it still probably has some more developing to do at the NHL level. I can't see Babcock playing those two together, and I even believe in mlive articles when Tatar was not played in the top 6 last year, the reason cited was he didn't have enough of an "all-around game" yet.
Andersson would have to carry a lot of the burden to make up for the other two, and the fact that he can't cover a lot of ground himself (mehhh skater) would hurt his ability to do that. On paper I think it's an awesome line and it would be great offensively, and bump Nyquist up to the top 6 where I think he belongs, but it's definitely not a line I think Babcock would like. He likes "safe" "boring" players who won't mistakes.
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Helm with a wonky back is still a better skater than Andersson. Skating is easily the biggest flaw in Andersson's game.
Tatar and Brunner are both goal scorers who are better when they have someone to feed them pucks. Tatar really took off offensively in the Calder Cup Playoffs when Nyquist was sent back to the AHL, and Brunner was at his best playing with Zetterberg on the 2nd line or on the 3rd when Nyquist was up.
If they bring Brunner back its going to cost them a few million so at that price I think playing him in the top 6 is the only way we make that contract worth it.
Put him back with Zetterberg, and play Nyquist - Helm/Andersson - Tatar as the 3rd line. One that can play a lot more minutes than they did this season.
Helm has no playmaking vision.
He works best when paired with crashers and bangers.
The best Helm has played was the Miller-Helm-Cleary line from last year. It was a good worker bee line. We're a puck possession team that thrives on passing. But puck possession lines with guys who can't pass become lines that spend more time in their own end than in the other end.
Like we saw with Datsyuk+Abdelkader in the playoffs
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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I actually think Helm's passing isn't that bad. Thought he got a lot better at gaining the zone with speed then pulling up and looking for a trailer, and contributing in the cycle.
Still think he has poor hands (can't keep up with his feet) and one of the worst shots on the team though. He's not ideal for a 3rd scoring line but I think if you put him with talented young energetic wingers you could still have a scoring line.
Don't think Andersson is really great in any one area himself, in terms of a skill set, but he is a smart guy and thinks the game well.
I've been saying for years that Helm is a dilemma.
He's too good to be a fourth liner. But if he's your third line center, you're probably running two lines that can't possess the puck.
He's too good to be a fourth liner. But if he's your third line center, you're probably running two lines that can't possess the puck.
SportsballChic
Registered User
I don't think he's an elite player or anything; but I really liked how responsible his passing was. I don't recall many hand grenade moments and I don't remember him getting caught up ice much.
I mean I dunno if he has the skill to be an initiator on the 3rd line, or to ever move up (probably not?) but if our plan is to fill out that line with energy scorers who might not be elite 2 way players yet; there are much worse lynchpin players than he'd be. I'm not really sure I want to rotate in all these kids with a Center who's fancy/trying to score a bunch.
I just don't understand how you can say that Helm works better with crashers and bangers when that's pretty much the only players he's actually played with at this level?
Don't you remember Helm finding Eaves in the slot many times? It didn't always result in a goal obviously, but that speaks to having some vision and offensive zone awareness.
Abdelkader had 4 assist this year in 60 games (reg season and postseason combined).
Helm had 17 assists in the 69 games he played in 11-12 (reg season and postseason combined.)
The difference is that one spent most of his time alongside the teams' leading goal scorer and Franzen (and Zetterberg) and the other played exclusively with bottom 6 wingers.
Using Abdelkader's success or lack there of as a playmaker is unfair to Helm.
Yeah, sorry. I don't see any sort of touch with his passes or ability to to function well with skill guys in the offensive zone. Helm's advantage is on the rush and through a chaotic cycle.
You want Tatar to score? You better get him someone who can get him the puck. A Nyquist. A Datsyuk. A Zetterberg.
You want Tatar to score? You better get him someone who can get him the puck. A Nyquist. A Datsyuk. A Zetterberg.
InjuredChoker
Registered User
WingsOverAvs
Non Right Winger
JmanWingsFan
Your average Jman
He looked plenty tough when I saw him play. Toughness lead to a goal or two.
Brick Top
LANA!!!!!
And this is when I want to light myself on fire.
That can't really be a concern with this kid, right? He showed more willingness to go to the net than plenty of Wings bigger than him (he scored his goals parked in front of the net).
And of any team in the league, it's laughable for Detroit to question a guy's toughness given the soft players they've relied on over the years. I mean, do they want him to drop the gloves more often?
He handled himself nicely in that brawl-filled AHL game earlier this season.
If you're going to do it, please be safe.
Also, Tatar fighting for minutes on the 4th line isn't ideal, but that's likely how the season starts. Hopefully by season's end he'll be rolling more minutes.
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