Is the NHL back to being one of the "4 Major Sports" in the US

[slimkay]

There is a fair bit of passing in the middle of the pack.

The problem with F1 is that the engineers and drivers are exceptionally skilled. The engineers are always finding ways to make the cars go faster until the FIA (governing body of F1) puts in new regulations to slow them down. They are also always introducing new concepts and rules to try and promote overtaking (passing, as you'd call it) but the drivers are always finding ways to adapt and limit overtaking opportunities.

The truth is that the gap in speed between the cars in every tier (if you think of it as high/mid/low tier cars) is pretty minimal, so you can't blow by guys on sheer speed. The end result is that you have to enter a turn faster, exit a turn faster, or take an alternate racing line in a turn to try and make the pass. Each track only has a few strong turns for overtaking, and there isn't a lot of track space for you to try and squeeze yourself on the inside of a turn or for you to try and go wide.

Most of the drivers in F1 are excellent at defending their racing line and boxing out an opponent. Every defensive maneuver throws the trailing car back some time because they have to slow down a little bit to avoid a collision.

I feel like the F1 vs NASCAR "debate" has some parallels to the defensive vs offensive style hockey "debate" in the NHL. F1 doesn't have a lot of passing, but it is a showcase of very skilled driving. NASCAR doesn't have that same kind of skill on display, but it does have a lot more action. The F1 fan is like the guy who would rather watch a 2-1 hockey game with two teams playing strong defensive systems, while the NASCAR fan is like the guy who would rather watch a 10-9 hockey game with a lot of run-and-gun offense with sloppy defensive/positional play.

To each their own. I have a hard time watching full races period, but I much prefer F1. I'll usually watch the races for my favourite circuits (maybe five out of the season) and that's it. The rest is just highlights. Ten minutes of NASCAR puts me to sleep.

The bolded part shows you don't know what you are talking about. And it's not your fault; it's just the common perception. For a full rebuttal, look at my posts on the previous page.

If NASCAR required no skills at all, you'd see every former open-wheel drivers (and we're talking F1 champions here like Jacques Villeneuve) succeed in NASCAR. Is that the case? Far, very far from it.

NASCAR requires different skill sets. Racing in a close pack, bump drafting, mastering those 4,000lbs/no-frills car is much different than driving a state-of-the-art 640kg F1.

 

[Rob]

I would think NBA and NHL are close to equal with the NBA having a slight edge...

It isn't even close. NBA teams get 30 million each from their national TV contract. NHL teams will be getting just 6 million.

It is still the Big 3 in the US, not the Big 4.

 

[NikkiSixx]

i would say NBA and NHL are definatly miles behind MLB and NFL, but the fact that Hockey is growing in the states is great. It's a great sport and definatly deserves to be more popular. I'm thrilled to see it's fan base growing every year!

 

[Swept In Seven]

I think that it is

 

[Duke749]

Nascar isn't a sport its a game/entertainment.

Hockey, Basketball, Baseball, Soccer, Football, etc are all much more games then NASCAR.

uh tony stewart?

And i'm willing to bet he's in as good of shape as any other athlete.

So much ignorance in this thread its unreal

We honestly need a new word for it. Saying there's ignorance in this thread would be an insult to the word itself.

 

[NJDevils11]

If NBC stepped up to the plate and put hockey on one of Tuesday-Thursday nights prime time. It will make a comeback.

Please tell me the sport that is on prime time on a weeknight on one of the major networks. Its ridiculous to suggest that NBC should put the NHL on prime time on a Tuesday-Thursday for regular season games.

 

[BigT2002]

We honestly need a new word for it. Saying there's ignorance in this thread would be an insult to the word itself.

After living all over the world, I would have to agree with you Sir.

 

[Machinehead]

The answer's obvious, though. LeBron James/Kobe Bryant and Peyton Manning/Brady/Favre/Brees/etc. are AMERICAN. The GOATs are AMERICAN.

Hockey is the one sport where Americans are not the best at (they're getting there though). LeBron and Kobe are replaced by Tim Horton's Sidney Crosby and Russia's Ovechkin. Had one or both of those guys been American, the media coverage would have been far better.

Well you got that right. But I'm not worried. Some day the true American megastar will arrive, and then it'll go to another level.

 

[Jzk]

Please tell me the sport that is on prime time on a weeknight on one of the major networks. Its ridiculous to suggest that NBC should put the NHL on prime time on a Tuesday-Thursday for regular season games.

Monday Night Football was on ABC for 35 years. Sorry but Saturday or Sunday at 1 in the after noon isn't going to cut it. Especially for the next 10 years.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

No love for the MLS ? it's growing faster than NHL.

It's easy to grow fast when you're growing from nothing.

 

[RistucciaRat]

Who cares, really? More money in the game will only ruin it. Let it remain Canada's national game and a regional niche sport in America. It's the best game on Earth and it's all ours. Let the masses enjoy those wonderful athletes in the NBA and MLB.

 

[nnynetpotato]

NFL



NCAA football/basketbaal (depending on conference and market)



MLB
NBA



NHL


the rest

 

[capt midnight]

a) nascar, golf, bowling..etc are all sports. everybody has a different individual definition about what exactly a sport is so it's hard to reach a consensus. personally, when i think sports i think it is an activity that involves some sort of physical and equally mental skill that is utilized to compete against others or against yourself within the boundaries of set rules. i guess all of those could fall under that category. do i consider them to be "athletic" sports? absolutely not. they do require a certain level or physical and mental ability but not what the typical idea of what "athletic" is within the sports world. consider nascar to be same league, different ballpark as hockey/football/baseball etc... if we want to talk sterotypes (i.e. nascar is a redneck sport) an argument could be made that hockey is a sport for middle-class white kids from conservative backgrounds; both are stretching the truth to a degree but still pretty generalized.
]

 

[NJDevils11]

Monday Night Football was on ABC for 35 years. Sorry but Saturday or Sunday at 1 in the after noon isn't going to cut it. Especially for the next 10 years.

Exactly that's the only one you can come up with, and even MNF is now on ESPN. There is no way any of the major networks are going to waste a prime time weekday spot on regular season sports besides the NFL's MNF which was a staple for years and I already mentioned that's on cable too now. It would be one of the dumbest marketing decisions of all time to have an NHL, NBA or MLB regular season game every week on a weeknight.

 

[Jzk]

Exactly that's the only one you can come up with, and even MNF is now on ESPN. There is no way any of the major networks are going to waste a prime time weekday spot on regular sports. It would be one of the dumbest marketing decisions of all time.

It's not dumb at all form a studio stand point. It's down right genius if you ask me. You'd still have 3 prime time slots during the winter. ESPN is as good or better than a standard TV network so it's not even a down grade from a NFL stand point.

 

[NJDevils11]

It's not dumb at all form a studio stand point. It's down right genius if you ask me. You'd still have 3 prime time slots during the winter. ESPN is as good or better than a standard TV network so it's not even a down grade from a NFL stand point.

I don't understand any part of you said. My point is simple, why would a major network waste a prime time slot every week on NHL regular season games that would probably never garner more than a 2.0 rating and probably less than that. It would make no sense and its absolutely unrealistic to even suggest something like that.

 

[Hooch314]

Regardless of the fact that some of you might think NASCAR doesn't completely suck, NHL has easily exceeded NASCAR in popularity in the entirety of the United Stated.

It's not close to the other big sports. You could even call them the big 3 now. But if the NBA (who is the only big 4 sport NHL could ever catch) has a lockout, we could shoot right up there with them.

 

[Jzk]

I don't understand any part of you said. My point is simple, why would a major network waste a prime time slot every week on NHL regular season games that would probably never garner more than a 2.0 rating and probably less than that. It would make no sense and its absolutely unrealistic to even suggest something like that.

As apposed to a 2.0 rating on a failed show? You realize NBC Tuesdays is The Biggest Loser and The Voice(American idol rip off). They don't have that much going for them. And my point is having a Sports night in prime time isn't bad business at all. They could spend more money on shows they already have pushing the quality up. Hockey could easily draw 3.5-4m views a week(what the biggest loser pulls and I couldn't find the voices numbers)

 

[C77]

Hockey is getting back on the radar. Kids know who Sidney Crosby is...because much to our chagrin as die-hard hockey fans, the league has done a a good job promoting its stars.

I'd definitely say it lost its Top 4 status during/after the lockout.

 

[clefty]

If that was the case, then F1 drivers would have OWNED everyone when they made the switch.

Jacques Villeneuve, former F1 champ, has 0 wins in NASCAR and can't even find a seat in the Sprint Cup.

Juan Montoya, former F1 runner-up, has 2 wins (road courses only, no oval wins) and is getting better... in his FIFTH season.

Stock car racing, MOTO GP, F1 and rallying are different discipline. Believe me, stock car racing is MUCH, MUCH harder than it looks. Just like F1 is very hard, despite the cars being the best there is on the planet. You just need different skill sets to succeed in different motorsport series.

It's really insulting to see all those cliches about NASCAR and "rednecks"...

As for NASCAR's popularity... well the problem is twofold:
1- TV ratings are down because of :
-- races are too long (upwards of 2h30min)
-- same dude is winning the championship (5 years in a row)
-- the current format makes the first 26 races useless (there's playoff-like format for the last 10 races)
-- too many ads
-- different broadcasters (ESPN, FOX, TNT, etc.) so it's hard to follow

2- Attendance is down because of the increasing ticket price and also because of some of the factors above (same dude winning, first 26 races mostly irrelevant).

Finally.. nearly all the studies show that NASCAR followers are the most brand-loyal people out there so there will still be much more money pumped into NASCAR than in the entire NHL for the foreseeable future. Since NASCAR rely so much on sponsorship money, they had difficulty during the recession but now everything's fine.

They're two different beasts.

Villenueve to start with, is 40 years old, that F1 title came fourteen years ago. His best days behind a wheel are long past him, and even in his best days he was a bit of a flash in the pan.

There's a significant difference between cutting your teeth through your formative racing years in open wheel cars on European circuits to then start driving heavy stock cars going around in circles. Villeneuve, while being North American, moved to Europe when he was in his late teens, he developed as a driver on European circuits in lightweight, open wheelers. Although he returned to race a couple of seasons in CART, he's not been built for NASCAR.

And it works both ways. You honestly think the best NASCAR driver could compete in Formula 1? Hell, moving to F1 from North America in any category of racing is hard enough in itself, only Michael Andretti has had any significant success. Juan-Pablo Montoya too, to a much lesser extent, he was at least competitive before he decided he was more suited to crapping out on his conditioning and getting fat. But guys like Sebastien Bourdais, who won four straight Champ Car titles lasted 27 races with just four point-scoring efforts before being kicked to the curb in favour of a 19-year-old. And as of right now, I don't believe a single American holds a Racing Superlicense required to drive in F1.

 

[NJDevils11]

As apposed to a 2.0 rating on a failed show? You realize NBC Tuesdays is The Biggest Loser and The Voice(American idol rip off). They don't have that much going for them. And my point is having a Sports night in prime time isn't bad business at all. They could spend more money on shows they already have pushing the quality up. Hockey could easily draw 3.5-4m views a week(what the biggest loser pulls and I couldn't find the voices numbers)

Where do you even find these numbers, the past five seasons of the Biggest Loser have averaged over 9 million viewers (2 of the seasons over 10 million). And none of 11 the seasons have ever averaged less than 8 million, if you think NHL numbers would ever be close to that you are nuts. Game 6 of last years FINALS drew 8.28 million viewers, the most in 36 years and that barely matched the Biggest Loser's worst season. The NHL regular season would never come close to matching the current prime time lineup which is by no means a good one, executives would have their heads chopped off if they did that.

 

[macavoy]

Regardless of the fact that some of you might think NASCAR doesn't completely suck, NHL has easily exceeded NASCAR in popularity in the entirety of the United Stated.

I'm curious, what are you basing your statement that the NHL easily exceeds Nascar in popularity in the entirety of the US?

I honestly have no clue. As a Canadian who is currently living in Michigan but has lived for over the past year in Indiana, I'd say that Nascar is more popular in the mid west than hockey. But I've lived in non hockey cities though.

But I'm more curious from an overall revenues or overall fan size figure if that was some how quantifiable.

 

[Rick Nash homework]

a) nascar, golf, bowling..etc are all sports. everybody has a different individual definition about what exactly a sport is so it's hard to reach a consensus. personally, when i think sports i think it is an activity that involves some sort of physical and equally mental skill that is utilized to compete against others or against yourself within the boundaries of set rules. i guess all of those could fall under that category. do i consider them to be "athletic" sports? absolutely not. they do require a certain level or physical and mental ability but not what the typical idea of what "athletic" is within the sports world. consider nascar to be same league, different ballpark as hockey/football/baseball etc... if we want to talk sterotypes (i.e. nascar is a redneck sport) an argument could be made that hockey is a sport for middle-class white kids from conservative backgrounds; both are stretching the truth to a degree but still pretty generalized.
]

I have never heard the stereotype that hockey for conservative middle-class whites. Explain me that?

 

[Rick Nash homework]

Hockey is catching up with the NBA for the third spot. The NFL and MLB are still far more popular then NHL of course in America and we could put NCAA football/basketball as well if were including college sports into the mix.

 

[Epsilon]

It's not dumb at all form a studio stand point. It's down right genius if you ask me. You'd still have 3 prime time slots during the winter. ESPN is as good or better than a standard TV network so it's not even a down grade from a NFL stand point.

It's not dumb, it's downright idiotic. You are clearly approaching this from a hockey fanboy standpoint rather than one that displays any knowledge of how the TV industry works. The shows with the lowest ratings tend to be reality TV schlock that has incredibly low production costs compared to sporting events, and still draws higher ratings than anything the NHL could manage.

Also, "ESPN is as good or better than a standard TV network"? Hahaha that is so wrong it's not even funny. The availability of ESPN pales in comparison to the broadcast networks, and basically nothing gets a higher rating on ESPN than it would on NBC, CBS, ABC, or FOX. When the BCS moved there this year, the ratings for all the games fell off, and since MNF switched to ESPN it's been treated as a 2nd-tier game in terms of matchups while Sunday night football on NBC gets all the best games.