Pre-Game Talk: Hurrican... forget it, LET'S TALK LINES!!!

[Ogrezilla]

 

[Shockmaster]

I wonder what happens if Iginla tells Bylsma he doesn't want to play LW...

Bylsma either does one of two things: puts him on Crosby's RW, or puts him on the third line. If he does the latter, I'm not sure how Shero doesn't stick his foot up Bylsma's ass.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Things to remember:

1. Iginla did not choose to come here to play on a line centered by Jokinen or Sutter, and I'm sure DB recognizes that. Experimenting with this line is hardly apocalyptic, because if it develops some chemistry, it gives the team a few options.

2. Switching wings can work. Everybody and their sister told us Neal sucked on RW, then he comes here and tears it up. Everybody said it was stupid when Ovie was tried on RW early in the season and struggled, and now he's an MVP candidate.

I'd like to see Iggy with Sid too, but he's out, and we have the opportunity to try a few different looks.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I care more that Iginla is playing with Neal than that he's on the left wing. No reason for either to happen.

 

[LGP6687]

Things to remember:

1. Iginla did not choose to come here to play on a line centered by Jokinen or Sutter, and I'm sure DB recognizes that. Experimenting with this line is hardly apocalyptic, because if it develops some chemistry, it gives the team a few options.

2. Switching wings can work. Everybody and their sister told us Neal sucked on RW, then he comes here and tears it up. Everybody said it was stupid when Ovie was tried on RW early in the season and struggled, and now he's an MVP candidate.

I'd like to see Iggy with Sid too, but he's out, and we have the opportunity to try a few different looks.

If we had 25 more games for Iggy to get used to it I might agree..

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I care more that Iginla is playing with Neal than that he's on the left wing.

How would you go about it?

Neal isn't leaving Malkin.
Iginla should play with one of Crosby or Malkin.
Crosby isn't playing.

 

[Shockmaster]

Things to remember:

1. Iginla did not choose to come here to play on a line centered by Jokinen or Sutter, and I'm sure DB recognizes that. Experimenting with this line is hardly apocalyptic, because if it develops some chemistry, it gives the team a few options.

2. Switching wings can work. Everybody and their sister told us Neal sucked on LW, then he comes here and tears it up. Everybody said it was stupid when Ovie was tried on RW early in the season and struggled, and now he's an MVP candidate.

I'd like to see Iggy with Sid too, but he's out, and we have the opportunity to try a few different looks.

Two flaws with that:

1.) When Neal switched wings, he was still very young and did not establish himself in the NHL yet. Iginla has been around since the mid-90's and has established himself in the NHL playing RW all that time. You don't mess with that.

2.) Ovechkin may have adjusted to RW now, but he struggled mightily for much of the season trying to adjust. Want to see Iginla struggle for the postseason trying to adjust?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

If we had 25 more games for Iggy to get used to it I might agree..

I'm sure we'd all like more time for players to get acclimated to new lines and roles. It's a luxury we don't have.

 

[Darth Vitale]

Rowdy: your statements about Neal and Ovy are true but both of those guys had the benefit of something Iginla doesn't: a couple months worth of games on the opposite side to get used to it.

This could end badly IMO if Bylsma is inflexible after a certain amount of time. Iggy is fine on the left half-wall on the Powerplay but not even strength. Maybe next year we could try it if he re-signs and starts there in camp but for now it's a dumb idea because there's not enough time for him to acclimate.

 

[Ogrezilla]

How would you go about it?

Neal isn't leaving Malkin.
Iginla should play with one of Crosby or Malkin.
Crosby isn't playing.

I don't buy that he's playing with Geno and Neal because Sid is out. He's playing with Geno and Neal because Disco is seriously considering keeping him there when Sid is back. Getting some time playing with his playoff wing partner - even with a different center - would be more useful if we were looking ahead. Not to mention, Geno and Neal haven't looked great all season long. They need as much practice as possible with their long term line-mate.

Iginla is the wrong fit for them though. He doesn't do the things they need someone to do. Morrow, Dupuis, Kunitz, maybe Jokinen and maybe even Bennett would make a better __ - Geno - Neal line than Iginla does. Did Iginla come here to play with Sid or Geno? No, he came here to win the Stanley Cup. If playing away from Sid or Geno for one more regular season game helps us do that, he'd do it in a heart beat.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Two flaws with that:

1.) When Neal switched wings, he was still very young and did not establish himself in the NHL yet. Iginla has been around since the mid-90's and has established himself in the NHL playing RW all that time. You don't mess with that.

2.) Ovechkin may have adjusted to RW now, but he struggled mightily for much of the season trying to adjust. Want to see Iginla struggle for the postseason trying to adjust?

Those aren't flaws, they are factors.

1. Neal had most certainly established himself. He was a 3-time 20+ goal scorer and was on pace for 30 in the year he was traded here.

2. Ovechkin was expected to be the best player on his line. Iginla doesn't have to be the best, or even 2nd best.

 

[wej20]

If Iggy is going to play with Dupuis and Sid (which the most recent practice lines seem to suggest) it seems rather silly to play him LW. When everyone's healthy who does Jussi knock out of of the lineup Glass or Kennedy?

 

[Shockmaster]

Those aren't flaws, they are factors.

1. Neal had most certainly established himself. He was a 3-time 20+ goal scorer and was on pace for 30 in the year he was traded here.

And he was only 23 years old and had training camp and the beginning of the season to adjust. No comparison between him and Iginla.

2. Ovechkin was expected to be the best player on his line. Iginla doesn't have to be the best, or even 2nd best.

This doesn't even make sense.

No, Iginla doesn't need to be the best player, but does that mean he should struggle adjusting to a new position when there are BETTER OPTIONS?

 

[IcedCapp]

Things to remember:

1. Iginla did not choose to come here to play on a line centered by Jokinen or Sutter, and I'm sure DB recognizes that. Experimenting with this line is hardly apocalyptic, because if it develops some chemistry, it gives the team a few options.

2. Switching wings can work. Everybody and their sister told us Neal sucked on RW, then he comes here and tears it up. Everybody said it was stupid when Ovie was tried on RW early in the season and struggled, and now he's an MVP candidate.

I'd like to see Iggy with Sid too, but he's out, and we have the opportunity to try a few different looks.

Just once I would like someone on the wrong side of this debate to not bring up Iggy playing with Sid. That's not what this is about. Iggy didn't come here to play with Geno or Crosby, he came here to win. Iggy on the 2nd-line LW isnt winning.

People kept harping on ES production for the 2nd-line at the beginning of the year. It's just as bad now, because it doesn't work.

 

[KIRK]

Things to remember:

1. Iginla did not choose to come here to play on a line centered by Jokinen or Sutter, and I'm sure DB recognizes that. Experimenting with this line is hardly apocalyptic, because if it develops some chemistry, it gives the team a few options.

2. Switching wings can work. Everybody and their sister told us Neal sucked on RW, then he comes here and tears it up. Everybody said it was stupid when Ovie was tried on RW early in the season and struggled, and now he's an MVP candidate.

I'd like to see Iggy with Sid too, but he's out, and we have the opportunity to try a few different looks.

All of that would be perfectly reasonable IF it didn't fly in the face of all logic.

Tonight's lines are 'what if Sid isn't ready to go'. If Sid is ready to go, then the lines will be Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis and Iginla-Malkin-Neal. That's a fact.

Of all the possible line combinations that include Dupuis in the top six (not to mention all the possible combinations that include Dupuis at L3 RW), that is the WORST, and it's not even close. Dupuis-Crosby-Iginla + Kunitz-Malkin-Neal is better. Kunitz-Crosby-Iginla + Dupuis-Malkin-Neal is even better. Why? Because Dupuis can play either wing and Iginla is a markedly inferior player on LW compared to RW. That is a fact.

You can sugar coat it however you like. The Pens acquired a future HOF RW who came here to play with Sid or Geno and who would be best suited to help the Pens win a cup playing RW in that role.

Bylsma has chosen to say 'Dupuis is a RW who has to be L1 RW' and 'Iginla still has to be in the top six', however less optimal a utilization of personnel that might be vis-a-vis what should be the ultimate goal be damned.

Sugar coat it however you like: Bylsma is a bigger impediment to the Pens reaching the finals than any possible opponent in the East. And, yes, that is now a fact.

 

[Waffle Fries]

How would you go about it?

Neal isn't leaving Malkin.
Iginla should play with one of Crosby or Malkin.
Crosby isn't playing.

I had a ton of hope in the days leading up to Thursday's game, especially of Dupuis-Malkin-Iggy was a line during a game. On Thursday, that hope was destroyed by his insistence to play Iggy on the left with that Iggy-Malkin-Bennett line. Then yesterday, more hope resurfaced with the emergence of Kunitz-Malkin-Neal practicing. And now today's Iginla-Malkin-Neal line kind of almost ruins it again.


What I quoted is the only thing that gives me slight hope. Maybe Dan is just trying to give Iggy the best center available during games, and the lines in practice yesterday were what he is planning for playoffs.

I read (albeit in an article by Rossi) that Dan said he had two sets of playoff lines, one that existed with Sid and one that existed without. Let's just hope that these are the sans Crosby lines and the other set is much, much better.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I don't buy that he's playing with Geno and Neal because Sid is out. He's playing with Geno and Neal because Disco is seriously considering keeping him there when Sid is back. Getting some time playing with his playoff wing partner - even with a different center - would be more useful for doing that. Not to mention, Geno and Neal haven't looked great all season long. They need as much practice as possible with their long term line-mate.

It can be two things. Like I said, Crosby is out now, so there's the opportunity to try it. It could give us some added flexibility moving forward.

The way Dupes and Kunitz have worked with Crosby this year I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to try to keep the line together, and in that case, where else does Iggy go?

Rowdy: your statements about Neal and Ovy are true but both of those guys had the benefit of something Iginla doesn't: a couple months worth of games on the opposite side to get used to it.

This could end badly IMO if Bylsma is inflexible after a certain amount of time. Iggy is fine on the left half-wall on the Powerplay but not even strength. Maybe next year we could try it if he re-signs and starts there in camp but for now it's a dumb idea because there's not enough time for him to acclimate.

What about Sid's acclimation time? He's coming back from injury with limited vision, and adjusting to new linemates and different tendencies in the playoffs with those limitations isn't ideal either.

No matter what, somebody's are going to have a lot to get used to in a short period of time.

 

[KIRK]

Just once I would like someone on the wrong side of this debate to not bring up Iggy playing with Sid. That's not what this is about. Iggy didn't come here to play with Geno or Crosby, he came here to win. Iggy on the 2nd-line LW isnt winning.

People kept harping on ES production for the 2nd-line at the beginning of the year. It's just as bad now, because it doesn't work.

Curiously, I also thought Bylsma wanted to win, not to assuage Pascal Dupuis' or Jerome Iginla's non-existent egos.

 

[KIRK]

It can be two things. Like I said, Crosby is out now, so there's the opportunity to try it. It could give us some added flexibility moving forward.

The way Dupes and Kunitz have worked with Crosby this year I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to try to keep the line together, and in that case, where else does Iggy go?



What about Sid's acclimation time? He's coming back from injury with limited vision, and adjusting to new linemates and different tendencies in the playoffs with those limitations isn't ideal either.

No matter what, somebody's are going to have a lot to get used to in a short period of time.

Morrow-Malkin-Neal
Cooke-Sutter-Iginla

is better than

Iginla-Malkin-Neal
Morrow-Sutter-Cooke

Not just because each player is in his natural position but also because Morrow at LW is a better choice for Malkin and Neal than Iginla is. And, I do hope that I shouldn't have to explain why.

 

[KIRK]

And it would be disrespectful to him. Since when is Iginla a 3rd line winger? I think he needs to be on Sid's line and let Duper play on the 3rd line. He won't get upset about that. He is a team man. Not sure about Beauner on the 2nd line in the playoffs. Put Morrow up there and give Geno and Neal a net presence.

That is my two cents anyway.

You and everyone else thinks that this is how it should go. BUT, it won't. Because keeping Dupuis in the top six at RW and having Iginla in the top six because it's disrespectful otherwise is more important than winning a cup.

 

[Shockmaster]

You and everyone else thinks that this is how it should go. BUT, it won't. Because keeping Dupuis in the top six at RW and having Iginla in the top six because it's disrespectful otherwise is more important than winning a cup.

Doesn't have to be like that. Unlike Iginla, Dupuis actually can move to LW. So take advantage of that:

Dupuis-Crosby-Iginla
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal

Not sure why Bylsma hasn't figured it out.

 

[KIRK]

I hope they lose 10 nothing and that line is a solid -10.

Looks like he's going to force feed that line until they're down to an elimination game, when it'll already be too late.

Congrats DB. I could have never hated you, but you just planted the seed.

You know there's precedence for this, right? He did it in 2009 with Sykora. Insisted that Sykora belonged with Malkin and Feds, even with the system change, all the way up to the Pens being down 2-0 to Washington. And that was when he had a voice of reason on his bench in Fitzie instead of a couple of puppets in Granato and Reirden.

 

[Waffle Fries]

What about Sid's acclimation time? He's coming back from injury with limited vision, and adjusting to new linemates and different tendencies in the playoffs with those limitations isn't ideal either.

Maybe I'd be worried about Sid adjusting to new linemates if Dan was trying to change his position as well. But he's not. Sid can play with anyone and make them look good. Last season Matt Cooke had back to back 2 goal games because he was playing with Sid.

And I really don't think Sid will mind adjusting to having someone on his line that can finish a greater majority of the plays he makes.

 

[Ogrezilla]

It can be two things. Like I said, Crosby is out now, so there's the opportunity to try it. It could give us some added flexibility moving forward.

The way Dupes and Kunitz have worked with Crosby this year I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to try to keep the line together, and in that case, where else does Iggy go?

The third line or Right Wing with Geno. Morrow is a far superior left wing to complement Geno and Neal. Neal has played most of his career as a left wing putting up goals in the 20s in Dallas. Either of those options are better than this one.

Or, you know, not crippling the team by forcing Kunitz - Sid - Dupuis to stay together.

What about Sid's acclimation time? He's coming back from injury with limited vision, and adjusting to new linemates and different tendencies in the playoffs with those limitations isn't ideal either.

No matter what, somebody's are going to have a lot to get used to in a short period of time.

Its not ideal. But its better than putting two shooters together on a line and nobody to go get them the damn puck. One of them playing out of position.

 

[KIRK]

Doesn't have to be like that. Unlike Iginla, Dupuis actually can move to LW. So take advantage of that:

Dupuis-Crosby-Iginla
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal

Not sure why Bylsma hasn't figured it out.

What you have above is the best possible combination of personnel IF both Iginla and Dupuis must be in the top six, and it's not even close.

As for the bolded part (why Bylsma hasn't figured it out), it's actually pretty easy to figure out why.

Frankly, I think our only hope is for Kunitz-Malkin-Neal to light it up tonight. Otherwise (and perhaps even in that case), Iginla-Malkin-Neal is a done deal when Sid returns.