Pre-Game Talk: Hurrican... forget it, LET'S TALK LINES!!!

[Ogrezilla]

Curiously, I also thought Bylsma wanted to win, not to assuage Pascal Dupuis' or Jerome Iginla's non-existent egos.

this is what kills me. I don't buy for a second that either Iginla or Dupuis would be upset by any decision that was putting the team above their personal position.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

And he was only 23 years old and had training camp and the beginning of the season to adjust. No comparison between him and Iginla.

Sure there is, and its exactly the reason I gave. He was an established scoring winger who switched sides and thrived.

This doesn't even make sense.

No, Iginla doesn't need to be the best player, but does that mean he should struggle adjusting to a new position when there are BETTER OPTIONS?

There aren't necessarily better options. Just different options. Bylsma's trying them out, he's not necessarily married to them.

This board has a tendency to think that anything happening right now is what will happen forever. Try some perspective.

All of that would be perfectly reasonable IF it didn't fly in the face of all logic.

Tonight's lines are 'what if Sid isn't ready to go'. If Sid is ready to go, then the lines will be Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis and Iginla-Malkin-Neal. That's a fact.

Of all the possible line combinations that include Dupuis in the top six (not to mention all the possible combinations that include Dupuis at L3 RW), that is the WORST, and it's not even close. Dupuis-Crosby-Iginla + Kunitz-Malkin-Neal is better. Kunitz-Crosby-Iginla + Dupuis-Malkin-Neal is even better. Why? Because Dupuis can play either wing and Iginla is a markedly inferior player on LW compared to RW. That is a fact.

You can sugar coat it however you like. The Pens acquired a future HOF RW who came here to play with Sid or Geno and who would be best suited to help the Pens win a cup playing RW in that role.

Bylsma has chosen to say 'Dupuis is a RW who has to be L1 RW' and 'Iginla still has to be in the top six', however less optimal a utilization of personnel that might be vis-a-vis what should be the ultimate goal be damned.

Sugar coat it however you like: Bylsma is a bigger impediment to the Pens reaching the finals than any possible opponent in the East. And, yes, that is now a fact.

It's not a fact KIRK, it's an opinion. Like the opinion at the beginning of the season that the Pens were going to get consistently exposed by an easily predictable stretch pass and Bylsma couldn't adjust.

Then we won 22 of 25 games and clinched 1st in the conference in spite of a rash of injuries to our best players.

 

[Waffle Fries]

What you have above is the best possible combination of personnel IF both Iginla and Dupuis must be in the top six, and it's not even close.

As for the bolded part (why Bylsma hasn't figured it out), it's actually pretty easy to figure out why.

Frankly, I think our only hope is for Kunitz-Malkin-Neal to light it up tonight. Otherwise (and perhaps even in that case), Iginla-Malkin-Neal is a done deal when Sid returns.

looks like I'm back to rooting for us to only score from the 3rd line, 4th line or powerplay again tonight.

 

[KIRK]

The third line or Right Wing with Geno. Morrow is a far superior left wing to complement Geno and Neal. Neal has played most of his career as a left wing putting up goals in the 20s in Dallas. Either of those options are better than this one.

Or, you know, not crippling the team by forcing Kunitz - Sid - Dupuis to stay together.


Its not ideal. But its better than putting two shooters together on a line and nobody to go get them the damn puck. One of them playing out of position.

But, that's more important that putting the best possible combination of personnel to enhance the team's chance to win a cup. Didn't you know that?

I'll put it this way: With Geno and Neal together, the only acceptable options for LW are Kunitz, Morrow, Bennett, and if need be Dupuis. Any other option will do far more to neutralize Malkin and Neal than the other team's second defensive units will.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Iginla to the 3rd line with Sutter. Right.

 

[MrBurghundy]

It's a big whatever for me at this point since I never expected anything different.

He better be right, or at least have the humility to recognize if it's not working.

 

[TheSniper26]

Doesn't have to be like that. Unlike Iginla, Dupuis actually can move to LW. So take advantage of that:

Dupuis-Crosby-Iginla
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal

Dupuis can pretty much move to any spot in the lineup and still be nearly as effective as he is with Crosby. There isn't some magical chemistry that he has with Sid. Dupuis is a straight-line player who produces because of his speed and tireless work ethic. He'll work with anybody(and has).

Iginla's role is a bit more narrow. He's a trigger-man who would benefit greatly from a skilled passer setting him up. It's such a no-brainer to put him next to Sid. Winning in the postseason is about depth and exploiting matchups. Dupuis to the third line and Iginla to the first sets our team up to win better than any other alternative.

 

[Jacob]

Honestly, I'd rather Iginla be on the 3rd line RW than 1st or 2nd line LW. He just doesn't look comfortable on the left side, and understandably so.

I remember when the Canadiens first acquired Kovalev and they tried him on the left.. it was a huge failure. And every Penguins and Rangers fan called it. This Iginla situation is very similar.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Iginla to the 3rd line with Sutter. Right.

Kunitz - Crosby - Dupuis
Morrow - Malkin - Neal
Bennett - Jokinen/Sutter - Iginla

is a better top 9 than

Kunitz - Crosby - Dupuis
Iginla - Malkin - Neal
Morrow - Jokinen/Sutter - Bennett

I just hope you're right that Bylsma is purely playing to Iginla's non-existent ego by playing him with Geno because Sid is out. It doesn't make sense, but at least it allows for a happy ending when Sid comes back.

 

[Shockmaster]

Sure there is, and its exactly the reason I gave. He was an established scoring winger who switched sides and thrived.

Neal is a young guy who went from a 20 goal scorer at LW to a 40 goal scorer at RW, and had a training camp and full season to make the switch. Iginla is a future HoFer who established himself for many years at RW and has clearly struggled at LW. Big difference, and to imply anything else is silly.

There aren't necessarily better options. Just different options. Bylsma's trying them out, he's not necessarily married to them.

This board has a tendency to think that anything happening right now is what will happen forever. Try some perspective.

Yesterday's practice lines showed some promise, but Bylsma's comments today are rather disturbing. What happens in the game tonight against the Hurricanes won't matter, but it's been mentioned a few times in previous threads - Bylsma likes his square pegs in round holes a little too often.

Really hoping Shero doesn't let this happen in the playoffs.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Sure there is, and its exactly the reason I gave. He was an established scoring winger who switched sides and thrived.

No, playing in the NHL for 2.5 years and having a couple 20 goal seasons is not comparable to playing in the NHL for 16 years and being a future HOFer. Not even in the slightest.

There aren't necessarily better options. Just different options. Bylsma's trying them out, he's not necessarily married to them.

This board has a tendency to think that anything happening right now is what will happen forever. Try some perspective.

There are better options. Like every option that includes not having two guys who primarily play the same role and same position on the same line.

But I agree that maybe Dan is just testing it, and there's still a chance that yesterday's practice lines will be closer to what we see in the playoffs.

 

[WayneSid9987]

The only thing that is frustrating is the "he's getting comfortable on LW".

In any game action he's played there, and theres been quite a few games, he hasn't looked comfortable at all there. He's looked marginally better on the the right side but it's not as if he's looked fantastic there either.

There are a few LW's he's looked good with though, playing the right side.

Morrow and Kunitz.

And Malkin's line actually looked more dangerous last game when Bennett ended up on the left side during game action.

 

[KIRK]

Sure there is, and its exactly the reason I gave. He was an established scoring winger who switched sides and thrived.



There aren't necessarily better options. Just different options. Bylsma's trying them out, he's not necessarily married to them.

This board has a tendency to think that anything happening right now is what will happen forever. Try some perspective.



It's not a fact KIRK, it's an opinion. Like the opinion at the beginning of the season that the Pens were going to get consistently exposed by an easily predictable stretch pass and Bylsma couldn't adjust.

Then we won 22 of 25 games and clinched 1st in the conference in spite of a rash of injuries to our best players.

Nope, this time it's a fact.

And, by the way, I actually had been very complimentary towards Bylsma the last six weeks, when he finally showed that he could make the adjustments. I worried about Iginla on LW, but when it didn't look good and Sid going out forced him back to the RW, I also complimented Bylsma for pairing Kunitz and Iginla and Morrow and Dupuis because I thought he was setting up for Sid to center Kunitz and Iggy and for Sutter or Jokinen to center Morrow and Dupuis. And, I thought he was setting up for Malkin and Neal to play with Bennett (where other third/fourth line guys would spell Bennett depending upon situation).

See, that's the difference between you and me. I see something. I say it. I see evidence otherwise. I say I was wrong. You see something, and, no matter the evidence, insist that you're right until the end.

I'm sorry, but you don't just take a future HOF RW and expect him to acclimate to playing LW in a few games. You don't do that on the grounds that he has to play in the top six, not when flipping Dupuis to LW is a viable alternative since apparently putting him at L3 RW isn't an option.

The Pens may still reach the finals and even win the cup. But, right now, Bylsma the bench boss is the biggest impediment to that. Not goaltending. Not defense. Not even special teams or the injuries. And, certainly not any other team in the East.

I appreciate that three early playoff exits have been enough for Bylsma to earn your undying loyalty. It doesn't work that way with me, especially when he actually did a pretty nice job suckering me the last six weeks.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Well guys, I usually like to address everyone who responds to my posts, but I don't have enough time or desire to acknowledge the 50 or so in here who disagree with me on the subject today, haha.

Just let DB try out Iggy on Malkin's LW while Sid's out in the last meaningless game of the season and try not to get too bent out of shape micro-analyzing the move. It might work, it might not. If it works, great. If it doesn't, we have the depth to adjust.

 

[KIRK]

Iginla to the 3rd line with Sutter. Right.

How about Dupuis to the third line with Sutter?

How about Dupuis to LW with Iginla at RW with Sid?

How about Dupuis to LW with Malkin?

Any of those are preferable to what Bylsma has wrought. And, I used to think that nothing possibly could be worse than Dupuis with Geno.

I stand corrected.

See, unlike you, another time overwhelming evidence gets me to change my mind.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Nope, this time it's a fact.

And, by the way, I actually had been very complimentary towards Bylsma the last six weeks, when he finally showed that he could make the adjustments. I worried about Iginla on LW, but when it didn't look good and Sid going out forced him back to the RW, I also complimented Bylsma for pairing Kunitz and Iginla and Morrow and Dupuis because I thought he was setting up for Sid to center Kunitz and Iggy and for Sutter or Jokinen to center Morrow and Dupuis. And, I thought he was setting up for Malkin and Neal to play with Bennett (where other third/fourth line guys would spell Bennett depending upon situation).

See, that's the difference between you and me. I see something. I say it. I see evidence otherwise. I say I was wrong. You see something, and, no matter the evidence, insist that you're right until the end.

I'm sorry, but you don't just take a future HOF RW and expect him to acclimate to playing LW in a few games. You don't do that on the grounds that he has to play in the top six, not when flipping Dupuis to LW is a viable alternative since apparently putting him at L3 RW isn't an option.

The Pens may still reach the finals and even win the cup. But, right now, Bylsma the bench boss is the biggest impediment to that. Not goaltending. Not defense. Not even special teams or the injuries. And, certainly not any other team in the East.

I appreciate that three early playoff exits have been enough for Bylsma to earn your undying loyalty. It doesn't work that way with me, especially when he actually did a pretty nice job suckering me the last six weeks.

The difference between you and I is that I have enough faith in the track records of the coach and GM to give them the benefit of the doubt, even when it requires a little patience.

The mantra earlier this year was that the coach couldn't adjust and the GM sat around with the thumb up his ass. But hey, things change.

 

[Shockmaster]

Well guys, I usually like to address everyone who responds to my posts, but I don't have enough time or desire to acknowledge the 50 or so in here who disagree with me on the subject today, haha.

Just let DB try out Iggy on Malkin's LW while Sid's out in the last meaningless game of the season and try not to get too bent out of shape micro-analyzing the move. It might work, it might not. If it works, great. If it doesn't, we have the depth to adjust.

If it were the first time Bylsma was trying this and it were earlier in the season I might be more open minded, but it was tried as early as two days ago and Iginla still looked very uncomfortable.

I'd rather they just role the lines they plan to use for the playoffs, and have Jokinen fill in for Crosby between Dupuis (LW) and Iginla (RW).

 

[KIRK]

Well guys, I usually like to address everyone who responds to my posts, but I don't have enough time or desire to acknowledge the 50 or so in here who disagree with me on the subject today, haha.

Just let DB try out Iggy on Malkin's LW while Sid's out in the last meaningless game of the season and try not to get too bent out of shape micro-analyzing the move. It might work, it might not. If it works, great. If it doesn't, we have the depth to adjust.

I believe that Kunitz is playing with Malkin and Neal tonight, no?

Iggy only plays on Malkin's LW when Sid comes back.

THAT is what is pissing people off.

Malkin has centered Iginla on the LW in two whole games. That's it, and it looked like ****. It was so bad last game that Beau Bennett looked bad.

And, by the way, WHEN it doesn't work, we certainly have the depth to adjust. Nobody is concerned about that. What concerns us is whether we'll have the time, because when not even MTLPenFan thinks he'll do it until we hit an elimination game, it's a concern.

 

[WayneSid9987]

A Sid'less lineup, it's really a no brainer where you slot in Iginla.

Jokinen-Iginla
or
Sutter-Iginla

And you have Kunitz or Morrow playing LW.

ETA:
Oh is he keeping the practice lines from yesterday for tonight? Nevermind then.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I believe that Kunitz is playing with Malkin and Neal tonight, no?

Iggy only plays on Malkin's LW when Sid comes back.

THAT is what is pissing people off.

Malkin has centered Iginla on the LW in two whole games. That's it, and it looked like ****. It was so bad last game that Beau Bennett looked bad.

And, by the way, WHEN it doesn't work, we certainly have the depth to adjust. Nobody is concerned about that. What concerns us is whether we'll have the time, because when not even MTLPenFan thinks he'll do it until we hit an elimination game, it's a concern.

doesn't sound like it. they practiced with Kunitz - Geno - Neal yesterday though.

Neal said with Iginla getting comfortable on LW he expects to play on the right side. #Penguins
http://twitter.com/pgshelly/statuses/328163462062694400


Where's the "told you so" guy?

 

[KIRK]

If it were the first time Bylsma was trying this and it were earlier in the season I might be more open minded, but it was tried as early as two days ago and Iginla still looked very uncomfortable.

I'd rather they just role the lines they plan to use for the playoffs, and have Jokinen fill in for Crosby between Dupuis (LW) and Iginla (RW).

Well, that just makes too much ******* sense.

Maybe that's his plan, but I still think Kunitz-Geno-Neal needs to light it up tonight . . . and even then I doubt we see anything but Iginla-Geno-Neal when Sid returns.

 

[KIRK]

No, Neal tweeted that he's playing with Iginla and Geno tonight.

Well **** me then.

And to think that I thought there was a remote chance that Bylsma would get his head out of his ***.

EDIT: Neal didn't tweet that, or at least I can't find it.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Like I said guys, just try not micro-analyze this too much.

And here I thought the Pens getting scoring wingers would end the hand-wringing. Should've known better, haha.

 

[MrBurghundy]

Well guys, I usually like to address everyone who responds to my posts, but I don't have enough time or desire to acknowledge the 50 or so in here who disagree with me on the subject today, haha.

Just let DB try out Iggy on Malkin's LW while Sid's out in the last meaningless game of the season and try not to get too bent out of shape micro-analyzing the move. It might work, it might not. If it works, great. If it doesn't, we have the depth to adjust.

I agree, even though I think it's a failure waiting to happen. The main concern of mine is Bylsma actually adjusting when it's clearly not working.

 

[WayneSid9987]

I'm just happy Martin is back.
Now we just need Orpik back and we are friggin' set, no matter what the lines look like up front.