Line Combos: How do they all fit now?

[Mortimer Snerd]

It's only a waste the way we run our lines. No reason a 4th line can't play 12+ minutes a game.

Fun fact: We have 6 forwards and 7 players with a lower average per game ice time than Montreal's least played player.

I think 12 is getting a little high, but yes in general. 10 minutes would be about right, I think. You do want to play your best players more than your weakest players. With the depth we have, the TOI should be closer. Scheifele getting 26 minutes was ridiculous. Wheeler is visibly aging. He would play better with fewer minutes.

 

[DoingItCoolKiwi]

Scheif and Wheeler haven't played like a top line players, so they shouldnt be in the top line.

Connor-PLD-Ehlers
Copp-Scheif-Wheeler
Perreault-Statsny-Appletton
Harkins-Lowry-Lewis

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I don't see why that is so absurd. We came into the season planning Ehlers/Connor-Scheife-Wheeler, Connor/Ehlers-Stastny-Laine. We didn't acquire Stastny to be a winger when he took us farther than we have ever been, as a centre. Seems plausible given the way the team is built that one of Dubois/Scheifele are going to end up on the wing, to replace Laine. Long term good chance those 2 becomes our 1-2, because Perfetti was likely never going to be the immediate 2c that was predicted. Centre is not an issue anymore in Winnipeg, we have 5 good ones. We only have 3 good wingers though, with Appleton working his way into Roslovic's spot, at a bargain Winnipeg price.

It isn't absurd at all - while we have Stastny playing very well. If that changes, then your idea is out the window. Perfetti has nothing to do with it. Not because he won't be a C. He still might or might not. Right now I'd still bet that he will. But he won't be in the NHL for 2-3 years. Then he will need a year to do rookie things. That's too far away to affect the plans for this year and next. And beyond that is too hard to predict.

 

[voyageur]

I like Gustafsson's profile and potential, but so far his performance hasn't given any reason to be enthusiastic about him moving up the line-up.

View attachment 391303

Scratched tonight. Vesalainen draws in. Harkins draws in as the 4th line centre. I don't think Gustafsson was part of the Jets original plan, but he got the opportunity with the Laine trade, and injuries to Thompson and Toninato up the middle. Lots of time. He looked solid at the AHL level to end the year. I wonder if there isn't a bit of reset though on the players who came over from European ice, with the Covid shutodwn.

 

[voyageur]

It's only a waste the way we run our lines. No reason a 4th line can't play 12+ minutes a game.

Fun fact: We have 6 forwards and 7 players with a lower average per game ice time than Montreal's least played player.

Montreal is a true 4 line team to start. Probably the only one in the North though, looking at the ice times of other teams.

It's hard, if you average 3 PPs, 3 PKs per night. That would mean a completely balanced lineup, with special teams making up the remaining time. I think there would be a lot of fans conversely kicking Maurice for playing Lewis the same amount of ice time as Ehlers. 4th line has been invisible every game this year. Definitely not on the scoresheet, and we've been chasing quite a few games. It's hard to play them more, if you can't count on them.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yea as our team fell out of contention I took it pretty hard and was perhaps too emotionally invested. Honestly it quit being fun.

Since everything Jets is an uncontrollable variable in my life I decided to try to transition my expectations and I have found it has really helped. If my entire value proposition is built around winning a cup or bust then I am going to be miserable. This is a hobby that should bring me some joy as well as some sorrow so I modified my expectations to the reality of how hard it actually is to win a cup for any team let alone a small market team like Winnipeg. Last season and this season I have enjoyed being a Jets fan allot more.

I have had a hard time taking the losses in the last 2-3 years (starting in the '18 series against StL). I can take it when the team just isn't that good, but tries hard. I can take it when they get beaten by a team that just happens to outplay them that day. I have a very hard time with losses like that last one where they were dominated by a lesser team (IMO) and that period in Ottawa where the shots were, what, 20-3 or something(WTF?). We managed to come back and win in OT, but not sure we really deserved the W there.

I don't demand cup or bust. I do demand sensible coaching. I also demand a GM who is always working toward improving the core, or at least the prospect pool, each year over the one before. You won't always succeed in that, but you need to be making moves that project that way, that have a chance. The Laine trade is like that. A bit risky, but could pay off with a real step in the right direction.

But I leave myself with plenty of potential for frustration. Maurice is a bottomless pit of it and Chevy has made some iffy (at best) moves in recent years. I don't count the PLD trade among those, despite the risk. I don't mind calculated risk that has good potential benefit.

It is sometimes hard to keep it all in perspective. I'm over-committed to this 'hobby'.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I like Gustafsson's profile and potential, but so far his performance hasn't given any reason to be enthusiastic about him moving up the line-up.

View attachment 391303

I'm disappointed by those numbers. I would have thought they would be better than that.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Scheif and Wheeler haven't played like a top line players, so they shouldnt be in the top line.

Connor-PLD-Ehlers
Copp-Scheif-Wheeler
Perreault-Statsny-Appletton
Harkins-Lowry-Lewis

Yeah, fine, in a week. What about the next 3 games?

I like the change Mau is making today. Lets see if he sticks with it for a while. And then see how it works out.

 

[JetsUK]

@garret9 has a good, detailed analysis of the Jets' D that should be required reading:



Here's a sample:



And some more:

 

[Whileee]

Apart from his performance...

I want him to get big, offensive minutes. I think he has a some solid middle 6 upside.

Mo seems he'll bent on turning him into a 4th liner though.

Then he needs to be in the AHL where he'll be able to develop more of his offense. He's simply not good enough to play big minutes up the line-up at the NHL level, especially with the Jets who now have the best C depth in the NHL.

 

[Whileee]

@garret9 has a good, detailed analysis of the Jets' D that should be required reading:



Here's a sample:



And some more:

This is a great analysis by @garret9 .

 

[JetsFan815]

I like Gustafsson's profile and potential, but so far his performance hasn't given any reason to be enthusiastic about him moving up the line-up.

View attachment 391303

I am not going to judge a player too harshly based on playing 5-6 minutes a night. In that role you are mostly just trying not to screw up and not get caught in the dzone as opposed to actually playing real hockey.

He should be playing and getting big minutes in Allsvenskan rather than be with the Jets.

 

[JetsFan815]

@garret9 has a good, detailed analysis of the Jets' D that should be required reading:



Here's a sample:



And some more:

DeMelo on the 3rd pairing on the 17-18 Jets would have made us even more monstrous of a team.

 

[portamoral]

jesus christ what happened to morrissey. that defense is absolutely embarrassing, worse than i thought. we have no top pair guys and 4 AHL plugs back there.

 

[bennylundholm]

Dubois. Scheifele. Connor
Copp. Stastny. Ehlers
Appleton. Lowry. Wheeler
Vesalainen. Harkins. Lewis

 

[truck]

At this point, I really want to see...

Copp - Scheifele - Ehlers
Connor - PLD - Appleton
Harkins - Stastny - Wheeler
Perreault - Lowry - Lewis

Copp - Scheifele - Ehlers was great tonight.

I don't want to see Connor and Wheeler together or watch them drag Dubois down, Appleton looks good and plays a better defensive game than Wheeler.

Wheeler gets to play with his buddy, Paul. Harkins gets to play with skill.

The 4th line might be better than the 3rd, and can still take tough matchups.

 

[truck]

Then he needs to be in the AHL where he'll be able to develop more of his offense. He's simply not good enough to play big minutes up the line-up at the NHL level, especially with the Jets who now have the best C depth in the NHL.

I agree, 100%. I was trying to say the same.

 

[voyageur]

At this point, I really want to see...

Copp - Scheifele - Ehlers
Connor - PLD - Appleton
Harkins - Stastny - Wheeler
Perreault - Lowry - Lewis

Copp - Scheifele - Ehlers was great tonight.

I don't want to see Connor and Wheeler together or watch them drag Dubois down, Appleton looks good and plays a better defensive game than Wheeler.

Wheeler gets to play with his buddy, Paul. Harkins gets to play with skill.

The 4th line might be better than the 3rd, and can still take tough matchups.

At this point I want to see

Dubois-Scheifele-Ehlers (if you thought Copp was great, how great would this line be with Dubois who can skate and finish too). You can play either Dubois/Scheifele at centre.
Connor-Stastny-Wheeler (you can pick you matchups with this line, because the checking line can match up against the best)
Copp-Lowry-Appleton (you need possession, you need momentum, these are your guys, Copp has shown he can play up the lineup, if we get an injury, which is a positive sign)
Perreault-Harkins-Lewis (with Perreault and Lewis you can push this line over 8 minutes, Lewis is some insulation for an inexperienced Harkins at centre)

Defensively Beaulieu is starting to become more inconsistent, and I think it's easy to rotate him and Poolman in and out of the lineup. Both fill the role of being somewhat good on the PK (not sure what Garret's stats are referring to specifically). If it's playing beside Morrissey, I'd probably choose Poolman over Beaulieu after watching the game tonight, so maybe that's some pressure for next game.

Where things are going to get interesting is that Dubois joining the lineup, Poolman coming back off CRAP, and Thompson off IR next Tuesday, according to Beyak, is going to put us one over the 23 player roster, as long as we have a 3rd goalie on our active roster. I can't see the vet Thompson being waived, however popular the decision would be. Putting a vet in the press box is easier than putting a young player in terms of accepting roles. However do we carry 8 d-men, and just pay Niku for occupying the PB for the remainder of the season? And be a good teammate to kick a soccer ball with. That's going to be the next decision, if there are no injuries on Thursday.

Vesalainen and Gustafsson probably stay on the taxi squad as long as there is no A. Heinola and Samberg are guys you want around the team until the A starts, because their future is here. Doesn't hurt to keep Perfettti around the team, if he's not playing, to integrate him. And Nogier seems like a lock for a taxi ride all year.

Someone's going to get squeezed though, I just hope that it isn't Stanley, because his ELC can slide. He's been impressive, and composed as a d-man. However that's been against Ottawa, and mostly on a home stand, where Maurice can control the matchups.

 

[truck]

At this point I want to see

Dubois-Scheifele-Ehlers (if you thought Copp was great, how great would this line be with Dubois who can skate and finish too). You can play either Dubois/Scheifele at centre.
Connor-Stastny-Wheeler (you can pick you matchups with this line, because the checking line can match up against the best)
Copp-Lowry-Appleton (you need possession, you need momentum, these are your guys, Copp has shown he can play up the lineup, if we get an injury, which is a positive sign)
Perreault-Harkins-Lewis (with Perreault and Lewis you can push this line over 8 minutes, Lewis is some insulation for an inexperienced Harkins at centre)

Defensively Beaulieu is starting to become more inconsistent, and I think it's easy to rotate him and Poolman in and out of the lineup. Both fill the role of being somewhat good on the PK (not sure what Garret's stats are referring to specifically). If it's playing beside Morrissey, I'd probably choose Poolman over Beaulieu after watching the game tonight, so maybe that's some pressure for next game.

Where things are going to get interesting is that Dubois joining the lineup, Poolman coming back off CRAP, and Thompson off IR next Tuesday, according to Beyak, is going to put us one over the 23 player roster, as long as we have a 3rd goalie on our active roster. I can't see the vet Thompson being waived, however popular the decision would be. Putting a vet in the press box is easier than putting a young player in terms of accepting roles. However do we carry 8 d-men, and just pay Niku for occupying the PB for the remainder of the season? And be a good teammate to kick a soccer ball with. That's going to be the next decision, if there are no injuries on Thursday.

Vesalainen and Gustafsson probably stay on the taxi squad as long as there is no A. Heinola and Samberg are guys you want around the team until the A starts, because their future is here. Doesn't hurt to keep Perfettti around the team, if he's not playing, to integrate him. And Nogier seems like a lock for a taxi ride all year.

Someone's going to get squeezed though, I just hope that it isn't Stanley, because his ELC can slide. He's been impressive, and composed as a d-man. However that's been against Ottawa, and mostly on a home stand, where Maurice can control the matchups.

I absolutely hate you lines.

PLD on the wing makes zero sense to me. He's been a better 5 on 5 centre than Scheifele. Playing him on the wing nullifies the biggest benefit of the trade (centre depth), and forces Mo to stick with the Wheeler / Connor combo that Stastny won't be able to carry.

 

[truck]

I thought this thread was about forwards. I know this doesn't have a hope of happening, but I'd probably go with something like this on the back end...

Forbort - Pionk
Heinola - DeMelo
Morrissey - Poolman / Stanley

Pionk out-performed Morrissey last year, and Forbort - Pionk got top pair minutes last night. They've been steady. I expect Mo to roll with them for a bit and I'm okay with that.

DeMelo is the perfect partner to break in Heinola. He plays a calm, steady game. If it is up to me, I'm trying to get Ville some games. He's the Jets only shot at a top pair difference maker.

Morrissey already looks physically beaten down. He was struggling to climb over the boards after multiple shifts on Monday and his went head first into the goal post last night. Some softer minutes may help him recover.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I absolutely hate you lines.

PLD on the wing makes zero sense to me. He's been a better 5 on 5 centre than Scheifele. Playing him on the wing nullifies the biggest benefit of the trade (centre depth), and forces Mo to stick with the Wheeler / Connor combo that Stastny won't be able to carry.

Yep kc needs someone with speed to play with. He’s playing with 2 dinos out there. I’d go
Kc pld stas
Copp schief ehlers
Apple Lowry wheeler
Lewis. Harkins. Perrault

 

[truck]

Yep kc needs someone with speed to play with. He’s playing with 2 dinos out there. I’d go
Kc pld stas
Copp schief ehlers
Apple Lowry wheeler
Lewis. Harkins. Perrault

I can't get behind Stastny on the wing either. IMO it makes no sense to give away an advantage at the center position.

Appleton has the coach's trust and he's shown enough that I'm cool with him getting an elevated look.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I can't get behind Stastny on the wing either. IMO it makes no sense to give away an advantage at the center position.

Appleton has the coach's trust and he's shown enough that I'm cool with him getting an elevated look.

I can’t see playing pld Schief Lowry or stas on 4th line.

 

[truck]

I can’t see playing pld Schief Lowry or stas on 4th line.

In 2017-18...

• Little played on the 3rd line.
• Lowry played on the 4th line.

That was the last time the team was good, and Lowry was an absolute force at that time, IMO better than he is now (which is still very good).

Run both lines for 10-11 minutes and keep the top 6 fresh. That's what I'd like to see.

 

[Adam da bomb]

In 2017-18...

• Little played on the 3rd line.
• Lowry played on the 4th line.

That was the last time the team was good, and Lowry was an absolute force at that time, IMO better than he is now (which is still very good).

Run both lines for 10-11 minutes and keep the top 6 fresh. That's what I'd like to see.

But that’s not what you will see. Just like you will at some time see csw reunited. Or Ehlers on the 1st pp.
I think Ehlers and Schief are better separate as Ehlers tries to do too much on his own.