Line Combos: How do they all fit now?

[Mortimer Snerd]

I definitely don't think that. I agree that PLD should be in the top 6. I was mostly responding to how you were characterizing Copp.

I'd prefer to see Stastny given the opportunity to anchor an effective third line. I think using him at wing is wasting a quality center.

I agree. But so is playing Lowry at wing or at 4C.

I've been saying for some time that Lowry should be the best 4C in the league, but he is playing better than that this year.

 

[voyageur]

You didn't even comment on who I had pushing Lowry down to the 4th line? Maybe I should have put that guy there.

Well he'd be an upgrade

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Well he'd be an upgrade

Something that gets pointed out here when we criticize Scheif for his D play is that he is taking the tougher matchups and that is quite true. But PLD has been taking the toughest matchups for CBJ too and has looked better defensively than Scheif has.

Most of us are assuming that Scheif will be #1 and PLD #2 and that is probably correct, at least at first. But if PLD can be better defensively and still score, that could change. I hope he at least pushes Scheifele.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

He's not going to keep scoring at his current pace (4 points per hour, double the avg 1st liner)... but he's legit one of the Jets top players.

This is value Jets have garnered on players since they've got knocked out of the playoffs in 2018:

Imperfect stat and this doesn't account for ice time, but this shows that Copp has been legit a strong performer in his minutes.

With very little on the negative side, it also show Roslovic as being pretty good for a throw in.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Not for the entire time. We played quite a few games in the playoffs with Scheif/Stats/Little/Lowry down the middle.

Little was moved to 3rd line RW

Little moved to rw when Stastny showed up.

So ..... both are true.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think the only things etched in stone to me are:

x / Scheifele / Wheeler
x / x / Ehlers
x / Lowry / Appleton
x / x / x

Fairly certain Lewis has earned a spot on L4, either at C or RW. The lack of right shots on the team has someone else playing their weak side & with the addition of Dubois pushing someone down the depth chart I'd guess that person is Perreault, particularly since he can no longer take regular face-offs and also because Lewis is rather good at that, creating:

x / Scheifele / Wheeler
x / x / Ehlers
x / Lowry / Appleton
x / Lewis / Perreault

Harkins doesn't pass Stastny, Connor, Dubois or Copp on the depth chart.

x / Scheifele / Wheeler
x / x / Ehlers
x / Lowry / Appleton
Harkins / Lewis / Perreault

So this really comes down to where Connor (LW1 or LW 2), Copp (LW1, LW2, LW3), Stastny (LW1, LW2, C2) & Dubois (LW1, LW2, C2) are placed. From here on in I'm not so sure, but I think that's a good thing. Lineup flexibility is a great thing to have.

Regardless of whether Wheeler is in decline, he still has elite vision. The best shooter of that last group is Connor. Regardless of Copp's strong play, there's a strong history of great play with Lowry.

This may be as simple as who plays centre, Dubois or Stastny

Connor / Scheifele / Wheeler
(Stastny,Dubois) / (Dubois,Stastny / Ehlers)
Copp / Lowry / Appleton
Harkins / Lewis / Perreault

You are really building the lineup from the bottom up.

I want to try to keep Copp in the top 6. If nothing else, he makes 1 of our top 2 lines better defensively than otherwise. But that creates a logjam in the top 6. And around and around we go.

 

[SM]

9-55-27
81-13-85
12-25-26
23-17-22

Then tell old man Wheeler the 3rd line is actually the 2nd line and hopefully we don’t have any issues.

 

[garret9]

With very little on the negative side, it also show Roslovic as being pretty good for a throw in.

He was much better winger in sheltered minutes than the centre reps he got in his last season here.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The more I think about it the more I think that adding Stats or Copp to the top line might be the best move.

Copp - Scheif - Wheel
Connor - Dubois - Ehlers
Stats - Lowry - Appleton
Perreault - Gus - Harkins

Or

Stats - Scheif - Wheels
Connor - Dubois - Ehlers
Copp - Lowry - Appleton
Perreault - Gus - Harkins

Would be the routes I'd go. Copp and or Stats should help the 1st line overcome their matchups a bit better and both can play well on the cycle which is what Scheif and Wheeler like to do.

If we need to get one of these by Mau (and of course, we do) the second one would fly. It has Copp - Lowry 3rd line.

But, should we be giving so many minutes to 2 old guys? Wheeler is looking gassed at the start of some shifts now. Stats uses his energy more economically so it might be alright. But I would be inclined toward your first one, only I'd switch Wheeler and Ehlers. Wheeler will benefit from the reduced TOI.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I don't understand the logic of breaking up Copp-Stastny-Ehlers, a line that's among the best in the league at the moment, to make a different line that in the best case scenario would be as good. Keep what's working and try to build something separate that also works.

I think most people are working on assumption that by the time PLD is ready to play they will have cooled off.

Yup, this^.

But I would like to see Copp - Scheifele - Ehlers.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

You are really building the lineup from the bottom up.

I want to try to keep Copp in the top 6. If nothing else, he makes 1 of our top 2 lines better defensively than otherwise. But that creates a logjam in the top 6. And around and around we go.

I like my line-ups like I like my Nickelback songs...

 

[voyageur]

Something that gets pointed out here when we criticize Scheif for his D play is that he is taking the tougher matchups and that is quite true. But PLD has been taking the toughest matchups for CBJ too and has looked better defensively than Scheif has.

Most of us are assuming that Scheif will be #1 and PLD #2 and that is probably correct, at least at first. But if PLD can be better defensively and still score, that could change. I hope he at least pushes Scheifele.

I have no idea how it will be configured, but there are a myriad of options.

Stastny is +6 (edit) as a 2nd line centre, that has to factor for something. He is on the same page as Ehlers.

I've been pushing to have Scheifele and Dubois together because of the perceived/actual weaknesses of Scheifele as a top centre.

For instance you could run Connor-Dubois-Scheifele, and that would be a power line. Move Wheeler down with Stastny-Ehlers, and that could be a very strong 2nd line. Copp-Lowry-Appleton is on par with any checking line in the North, and probably producing positively most nights.

There's options. I don't necessarily think that Stastny is going to be relegated. He's also the best faceoff guy on the team.

I have a top 9 in mind that has all the best 9 players. A lot of posters are clamouring for strength down the middle 1-4, but that's harder to fathom, or to spread out, and you know, if you are realistic, that Adam Lowry is not getting demoted to a less than 10 minute per night role, especially when he is putting points on the board.

 

[WolfHouse]

We did not trade a potentially generational scoring winger plus another young winger - for a lower scoring winger.

Our signature franchise first pick is not being moved from centre to wing to save space for a 35 year old On a one year contract...

PLD starts at 2C and will stay there for his entire career as a Jet unless he bumps Scheifele someday

 

[voyageur]

We did not trade a potentially generational scoring winger plus another young winger - for a lower scoring winger.

Our signature franchise first pick is not being moved from centre to wing to save space for a 35 year old On a one year contract...

PLD starts at 2C and will stay there for his entire career as a Jet unless he bumps Scheifele someday

I don't see why that is so absurd. We came into the season planning Ehlers/Connor-Scheife-Wheeler, Connor/Ehlers-Stastny-Laine. We didn't acquire Stastny to be a winger when he took us farther than we have ever been, as a centre. Seems plausible given the way the team is built that one of Dubois/Scheifele are going to end up on the wing, to replace Laine. Long term good chance those 2 becomes our 1-2, because Perfetti was likely never going to be the immediate 2c that was predicted. Centre is not an issue anymore in Winnipeg, we have 5 good ones. We only have 3 good wingers though, with Appleton working his way into Roslovic's spot, at a bargain Winnipeg price.

 

[ps241]

I said this in the Copp thread, but I'll throw it in here too.

Connor - Scheifele - Wheeler
Perreault - Dubois - Ehlers
Copp - Stastny - Appleton
Harkins - Lowry - Lewis

OR

Ehlers - Scheifele - Wheeler
Connor - Dubois - Perreault
Copp - Stastny - Appleton
Harkins - Lowry - Lewis

OR

Copp - Scheifele - Wheeler
Connor - Dubois - Ehlers
Perreault - Stastny - Appleton
Harkins - Lowry - Lewis

OR

Copp - Scheifele - Wheeler
Connor - Dubois - Ehlers
Harkins - Stastny - Appleton
Perreault - Lowry - Lewis

The wingers are largely interchangeable. The only defensive liabilities in that lineup are on the top line and beyond Lewis and Lowry, I think they all have some offensive upside.

Embrace the depth at centre.

Moving one of PLD / Stastny to the wing erases one of the big benefits from the trade.

Yea I usually don’t delve too much into theoretical line combos because it feels like our coach is simultaneously tenured for life and locked into his philosophy of Scheif Wheels at the top, Lowry on the 3rd line, and spare parts on the 4th.

To stay sane I try not to imagine interesting options.

 

[JetsUK]

Yea I usually don’t delve too much into theoretical line combos because it feels like our coach is simultaneously tenured for life and locked into his philosophy of Scheif Wheels at the top, Lowry on the 3rd line, and spare parts on the 4th.

To stay sane I try not to imagine interesting options.

Hah! Sanity indeed -- but at what price!

I salute you for choosing the wise way of the sage over the way of the furious, muttering, cussing, pillows-at-the-TV HF Jets fan, but the interesting options are what keep me going, even when the end times seem to be at hand for this team.

I'm really forward to the arrival of PLD. If all goes well, then his talent and position should push all the top talent around him -- the worker bees don't really need the push -- and we'll be better. In fact, I don't see how we can be worse with a nasty, strong, positive play-driving centre in the fold, even if he's somehow stuck at wing. And if he's as good as advertised, then he might be able to carry some of our younger, less confident prospects as they get some development in, or at least displace some talent down the lineup to effect the same thing. Can't wait.

 

[ps241]

Sanity indeed -- but at what price!

I salute you for choosing the wise way of the sage over the way of the furious, muttering, cussing, pillows-at-the-TV HF Jets fan, but the interesting options are what keep me going, even when the end times seem to be at hand for this team.

I'm really forward to the arrival of PLD. If all goes well, then his talent and position should push all the top talent around him -- the worker bees don't really need the push -- and we'll be better. In fact, I don't see how we can be worse with a nasty, strong, positive play-driving centre in the fold, even if he's somehow stuck at wing. And if he's as good as advertised, then he might be able to carry some of our younger, less confident prospects as they get some development in, or at least displace some talent down the lineup to effect the same thing. Can't wait.

Yea as our team fell out of contention I took it pretty hard and was perhaps too emotionally invested. Honestly it quit being fun.

Since everything Jets is an uncontrollable variable in my life I decided to try to transition my expectations and I have found it has really helped. If my entire value proposition is built around winning a cup or bust then I am going to be miserable. This is a hobby that should bring me some joy as well as some sorrow so I modified my expectations to the reality of how hard it actually is to win a cup for any team let alone a small market team like Winnipeg. Last season and this season I have enjoyed being a Jets fan allot more.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Yea I usually don’t delve too much into theoretical line combos because it feels like our coach is simultaneously tenured for life and locked into his philosophy of Scheif Wheels at the top, Lowry on the 3rd line, and spare parts on the 4th.

To stay sane I try not to imagine interesting options.

One of about three things that I'm trying this year to stay sane
One of the others is to scroll past all "locker room" and "Leadership" discussions .

 

[ps241]

One of about three things that I'm trying this year to stay sane
One of the others is to scroll past all "locker room" and "Leadership" discussions .

Yea I think in no particular order for me this is a partial list of my action steps post 2018-19 watershed.

ps destress 101 prescription:

Ignore the main boards 95% of the time (don't worry about what other fans think or say)
That being said make small list of fans of other teams I respect and PM them to chat and follow their posting when time permits (recent exchanges with @majormajor is an example of someone who caught my attention)
Trade talk between fan bases is a sadistic idea and so far I don't think I have ever seen agreement between fan bases so its negative energy to avoid unless you enjoy arguing with no resolutions for fun.
Ignore what I perceive to be agenda based non Jets fans on our board (this has been a life saver)
leave any GDT at puck drop
I hate losing so I have enough misery on my own I don't need company until I am civil.
Only engage on PGT's after losses to browse and find my favorites to get their reviews. Engage but don't wallow or be part of a group therapy sessions. Posters need to vent but I don't need to listen.
Skim discussions on line combinations but realize it can be a source of frustration since I don't call the shots.
Drop by coaching conversations but get in and out and always read while chanting the mantra (Death, Taxes, and all HFfans hate their coach)
PVR all late games and watch the wins slowly and the losses quickly.
When I start feeling down on the team and my hobby skip a game or two and don't PVR them. Take a night or two off when I need it.
Respect and appreciate differing opinions. If we all agreed this place would be boring.

Mostly I have a few buddies who somehow remain happy inside what appear to be pretty challenging marriages and I have asked them both how they do it (keep smiling and laughing)? They have different answers but if I was to summarize the common thread it would be "Marriage and life are messy and since I am not perfect the key to happiness is lowered expectations of my loved one"

GJG

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I have no idea how it will be configured, but there are a myriad of options.

Stastny is +6 (edit) as a 2nd line centre, that has to factor for something. He is on the same page as Ehlers.

I've been pushing to have Scheifele and Dubois together because of the perceived/actual weaknesses of Scheifele as a top centre.

For instance you could run Connor-Dubois-Scheifele, and that would be a power line. Move Wheeler down with Stastny-Ehlers, and that could be a very strong 2nd line. Copp-Lowry-Appleton is on par with any checking line in the North, and probably producing positively most nights.

There's options. I don't necessarily think that Stastny is going to be relegated. He's also the best faceoff guy on the team.

I have a top 9 in mind that has all the best 9 players. A lot of posters are clamouring for strength down the middle 1-4, but that's harder to fathom, or to spread out, and you know, if you are realistic, that Adam Lowry is not getting demoted to a less than 10 minute per night role, especially when he is putting points on the board.

Rolling 4 good lines is a tempting thought. But you are probably right when all factors are considered, distribution of TOI, special teams, etc. We also need to accept that Maurice is the coach, whether we like it or not and he is going to do things his way.

Using Scheifele at RW is definitely out of the box thinking. It is an interesting possibility that only exists because we have now added 2 top 6 C since last year in Stastny and Dubois. That may not last past this season. It would plug the hole at RW. Worth considering, IMO.

Interestingly, Scheifele is at 50.9% on FO so far this year. FO have always been a weakness of his at C. My eye test has also caught him playing better D a few times in his own end. Still small sample, but he may be improving on some of his weaknesses. PLD pushing him can only help.

Interesting that PMo has shuffled the wingers in practice today.
Maurice shuffles Jets' top lines at practice: 'I want to see a little different look'

Copp - Scheifel - Ehlers
Connor - Stastny - Wheeler

 

[voyageur]

Rolling 4 good lines is a tempting thought. But you are probably right when all factors are considered, distribution of TOI, special teams, etc. We also need to accept that Maurice is the coach, whether we like it or not and he is going to do things his way.

Using Scheifele at RW is definitely out of the box thinking. It is an interesting possibility that only exists because we have now added 2 top 6 C since last year in Stastny and Dubois. That may not last past this season. It would plug the hole at RW. Worth considering, IMO.

Interestingly, Scheifele is at 50.9% on FO so far this year. FO have always been a weakness of his at C. My eye test has also caught him playing better D a few times in his own end. Still small sample, but he may be improving on some of his weaknesses. PLD pushing him can only help.

Interesting that PMo has shuffled the wingers in practice today.
Maurice shuffles Jets' top lines at practice: 'I want to see a little different look'

Copp - Scheifel - Ehlers
Connor - Stastny - Wheeler

I like the changes. Ehlers might get Scheif going.

Stastny seems to play well with anyone, so grumpy old man might enjoy his time on the 2nd line.

 

[Whileee]

But Copp has proven himself better and Lowry can be replaced by Gustafson in a year or two.

I like Gustafsson's profile and potential, but so far his performance hasn't given any reason to be enthusiastic about him moving up the line-up.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Yea I think in no particular order for me this is a partial list of my action steps post 2018-19 watershed.

ps destress 101 prescription:

Ignore the main boards 95% of the time (don't worry about what other fans think or say)
That being said make small list of fans of other teams I respect and PM them to chat and follow their posting when time permits (recent exchanges with @majormajor is an example of someone who caught my attention)
Trade talk between fan bases is a sadistic idea and so far I don't think I have ever seen agreement between fan bases so its negative energy to avoid unless you enjoy arguing with no resolutions for fun.
Ignore what I perceive to be agenda based non Jets fans on our board (this has been a life saver)
leave any GDT at puck drop
I hate losing so I have enough misery on my own I don't need company until I am civil.
Only engage on PGT's after losses to browse and find my favorites to get their reviews. Engage but don't wallow or be part of a group therapy sessions. Posters need to vent but I don't need to listen.
Skim discussions on line combinations but realize it can be a source of frustration since I don't call the shots.
Drop by coaching conversations but get in and out and always read while chanting the mantra (Death, Taxes, and all HFfans hate their coach)
PVR all late games and watch the wins slowly and the losses quickly.
When I start feeling down on the team and my hobby skip a game or two and don't PVR them. Take a night or two off when I need it.
Respect and appreciate differing opinions. If we all agreed this place would be boring.

Mostly I have a few buddies who somehow remain happy inside what appear to be pretty challenging marriages and I have asked them both how they do it (keep smiling and laughing)? They have different answers but if I was to summarize the common thread it would be "Marriage and life are messy and since I am not perfect the key to happiness is lowered expectations of my loved one"

GJG

Can we make this a ‘sticky’?

 

[truck]

I like Gustafsson's profile and potential, but so far his performance hasn't given any reason to be enthusiastic about him moving up the line-up.

View attachment 391303

Apart from his performance...

I want him to get big, offensive minutes. I think he has a some solid middle 6 upside.

Mo seems he'll bent on turning him into a 4th liner though.

 

[Atoyot]

I agree. But so is playing Lowry at wing or at 4C.

I've been saying for some time that Lowry should be the best 4C in the league, but he is playing better than that this year.

It's only a waste the way we run our lines. No reason a 4th line can't play 12+ minutes a game.

Fun fact: We have 6 forwards and 7 players with a lower average per game ice time than Montreal's least played player.