News Article: Habs offered Gardiner a 3 year 15.75 million contract!

[LastWordArmy]

Gardiner gave up potential money for guaranteed money, but to say Montreal's offer was better financially isn't true. Montreal's offer was potentially better, and chances are he got 1 year offers that were even better still, but taking the guaranteed money is often times the smarter financial move.

And when you are talking potential money on a future deal I could just as easily argue that his future deal would be better after spending 4 years in Carolina where there's a strong supporting cast and he;s more likely to go on long playoff runs and put rest the playoff no-show label that currently follows him. Whereas in Montreal he would likely be bashed constantly by the fans/media which would hurt his future contract.

When its less than $500,000 more (less than NHL minimum) for 1 additional year, and you take into account the fact that he would have got more money up front which could be invested in safe investments at guaranteed returns... he didn't get more in guaranteed money based on the time value of money. Investing that 15.75 million as it is earned (even if we take out 1 mill per year to live on), he'd end up with more money than with 16.2 over four years. Especially if those are the type of long term investments that can avoid taxes until taken out.

 

[Sorinth]

...Gardiner is part of the support cast (and if he's in the main cast, for the sake of your credibility, don't say that he's likely to go on long playoff runs).

In Carolina he's part of the support cast so it will be easier for him to look like a stud then in Montreal where we would expect/need him to be a go to guy.

As for playoff runs Carolina made it to the ECF last year and have gotten better this summer. So there's a decent chance they'll have another good playoff run or two over the 4 years.

 

[Sorinth]

When its less than $500,000 more (less than NHL minimum) for 1 additional year, and you take into account the fact that he would have got more money up front which could be invested in safe investments at guaranteed returns... he didn't get more in guaranteed money based on the time value of money. Investing that 15.75 million as it is earned (even if we take out 1 mill per year to live on), he'd end up with more money than with 16.2 over four years. Especially if those are the type of long term investments that can avoid taxes until taken out.

There's no guarantee of that being true, especially since the news is filled with doom and gloom about how we are about to hit the next recession because of the inverted yield curve. It's quite possible that the money would be invested in something low risk low yield and therefore not produce a big difference. And then you also have to factor in taxes, which I'm the first to point out isn't as big a deal as people pretend, but it's still a few hundred K.

Then we also have to figure out marketing opportunities, Gardiner would be unlikely to get much of any in Montreal because he isn't a star or francophone, whereas in Carolina there will likely be numerous local sponsorship deals he could sign.

 

[Miller Time]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...DMAV6BAgEEBY&usg=AOvVaw254IHH32YtkKgflrrp16P-

If this is true JG left 1.2 million on the table because he was too scared to play in another big market.

I'm a bigger fan of his now LOL.

What do you guys think? Smart move by Gardiner or he's just a pu$)%#?

Discuss!

Smart move... Why would any player choose to squander their prime signing to a team with such poor management in place unless getting a big overpayment?

 

[Rapala]

The real story here is "Hab's unable to sign Gardiner despite a 3 year $15.75 M dollar offer"
This needs to be addressed.

 

[Miller Time]

The real story here is "Hab's unable to sign Gardiner despite a 3 year $15.75 M dollar offer"
This needs to be addressed.

8 years of this already when it comes to attracting top UFAs... The solution remains in hiring better management, can't see anything else fixing that.

 

[Rapala]

8 years of this already when it comes to attracting top UFAs... The solution remains in hiring better management, can't see anything else fixing that.

Oh I agree wholeheartedly. The league itself is partly to blame also given there is no tax equality in a Salary Capped System. Someone posted recently that the odds are we should win at least one cup every 30 years. But when you think about it no Canadian team has won a cup since 93. It's actually ridiculous given the monies generated on this side of the border. I don't blame the players at all for continually looking south.

 

[LastWordArmy]

There's no guarantee of that being true, especially since the news is filled with doom and gloom about how we are about to hit the next recession because of the inverted yield curve. It's quite possible that the money would be invested in something low risk low yield and therefore not produce a big difference. And then you also have to factor in taxes, which I'm the first to point out isn't as big a deal as people pretend, but it's still a few hundred K.

Then we also have to figure out marketing opportunities, Gardiner would be unlikely to get much of any in Montreal because he isn't a star or francophone, whereas in Carolina there will likely be numerous local sponsorship deals he could sign.

NHL local sponsorship deals aren't worth much if anything. The money in advertising deals just isn't there unless your name is Crosby, McDavid, MacKinnon, Price, Tavares, Matthews, Ovechkin,

Outside of those 6 or 7 players, there isn't money in sponsorships, especially for the 4th best defenceman on Carolina.

The inverted yield curve is also something that means he wants that money as soon as possible. Short term bonds are paying higher rates of return than long term ones right now.

 

[LastWordArmy]

8 years of this already when it comes to attracting top UFAs... The solution remains in hiring better management, can't see anything else fixing that.

Its a lot longer than that... Bob Gainey was extremely well respected and he got turned down by numerous free agents like Briere, Elias, Shanahan, and others.

I don't think its a management problem.

 

[Miller Time]

Oh I agree wholeheartedly. The league itself is partly to blame also given there is no tax equality in a Salary Capped System. Someone posted recently that the odds are we should win at least one cup every 30 years. But when you think about it no Canadian team has won a cup since 93. It's actually ridiculous given the monies generated on this side of the border. I don't blame the players at all for continually looking south.

Yeah... Though the Canada drought is also a bit of bad luck...

Flames were a bad disallowed goal away...
If Sens (Lee) or Nucks (bourdon) pick Kopitar in '05, they have a better shot at the Kings Cup success instead of the 1& done finals they both had...
If a Canadian team won the Crosby draft lottery...


With only 5-6 teams out if 30, the current dry spell is as much about luck as anything else imo (especially since most Canadian teams have been close to cap spending for most of the 2000's).

 

[Miller Time]

Its a lot longer than that... Bob Gainey was extremely well respected and he got turned down by numerous free agents like Briere, Elias, Shanahan, and others.

I don't think its a management problem.

This narrative has already been refuted.

In his 7-year run, Gainey landed more than average amount of top UFA's

 

[Sorinth]

NHL local sponsorship deals aren't worth much if anything. The money in advertising deals just isn't there unless your name is Crosby, McDavid, MacKinnon, Price, Tavares, Matthews, Ovechkin,

Outside of those 6 or 7 players, there isn't money in sponsorships, especially for the 4th best defenceman on Carolina.

The inverted yield curve is also something that means he wants that money as soon as possible. Short term bonds are paying higher rates of return than long term ones right now.

I'm not talking about the multi-million dollar deals with Nike, but the local sponsorship with say a nearby Ford dealer, the radio ads with some furniture shop, etc.. Sure it's not millions of dollars but it helps close the gap between Montreal and Carolina's offer. And when you take that on top of taxes the difference year to year is getting smaller, and then there's the security offered by the 4th year which helps lower the risk, and it's not at all clear that Montreal's offer is superior. It's a toss up, some players would prefer the security of the longer term deal, some would prefer the chance at getting more money.

After Pacioretty's big injury he also went with the longer term less potential money. Whereas when Radulov wanted to return to the NHL he took our 1 year deal instead of Detroit's 2 year deal, or when Semin became UFA he took Carolina's 1 year 7m offer and if I remember correctly there was a 5 year 25m deal on the table for him. There's no clear better option when making a tradeoff between term/money. It's about risk management, and to be honest unless we know Gardiner's current financial state it's pointless to argue which is better for him.

 

[LastWordArmy]

This narrative has already been refuted.

In his 7-year run, Gainey landed more than average amount of top UFA's

He added two big names in 2009 (Gionta and Cammalleri).

He added Hamrlik in 2007.

What other big names did he add? Samsonov? nope... he was like the only UFA left on the market when we struck out on every one else that year.... Spacek? I don't exactly consider him a big name UFA.

Meanwhile Bergevin has landed Alzner (who was the second biggest D that year, and yes he failed, but he still landed him)... and Radulov.

So I don't see a big difference here. Seems both landed a few but not many.

 

[LastWordArmy]

I'm not talking about the multi-million dollar deals with Nike, but the local sponsorship with say a nearby Ford dealer, the radio ads with some furniture shop, etc.. Sure it's not millions of dollars but it helps close the gap between Montreal and Carolina's offer. And when you take that on top of taxes the difference year to year is getting smaller, and then there's the security offered by the 4th year which helps lower the risk, and it's not at all clear that Montreal's offer is superior. It's a toss up, some players would prefer the security of the longer term deal, some would prefer the chance at getting more money.

After Pacioretty's big injury he also went with the longer term less potential money. Whereas when Radulov wanted to return to the NHL he took our 1 year deal instead of Detroit's 2 year deal, or when Semin became UFA he took Carolina's 1 year 7m offer and if I remember correctly there was a 5 year 25m deal on the table for him. There's no clear better option when making a tradeoff between term/money. It's about risk management, and to be honest unless we know Gardiner's current financial state it's pointless to argue which is better for him.

Top 12 NHL Endorsers | opendorse

These numbers are about a decade old... but in 2009 Crosby and Ovechkin were the only NHLers making huge money.

Rick Nash was making 150k
Staal and Lecavalier 250K each

etc...

These were top name guys in their markets. Not the 4th defenceman in a tiny market. Those local ford dealership deals are peanuts.

 

[Miller Time]

He added two big names in 2009 (Gionta and Cammalleri).

He added Hamrlik in 2007.

What other big names did he add? Samsonov? nope... he was like the only UFA left on the market when we struck out on every one else that year.... Spacek? I don't exactly consider him a big name UFA.

Meanwhile Bergevin has landed Alzner (who was the second biggest D that year, and yes he failed, but he still landed him)... and Radulov.

So I don't see a big difference here. Seems both landed a few but not many.

Discussed & compared at length...

Gainey - 6-7 "top" UFAs in 7 years
MB - 1-3 in 8

Nuff said

 

[LastWordArmy]

Who are these 6-7?

 

[Doublechin]

Who cares about JG. But I will say this, Hockey players must be the only athletes in the world that have no cohones to play in big markets.

Huh, they flock to Toronto, NYC, Boston, Chicago etc, it's not about the big market, it's about the management, taxes, the cold, the obsession with the French language by some idiots in the media etc.,. Safe to safe, I now have zero expectations for big time UFA's to ever wanna come and play here, even when overpaying they'd rather go to f***ing Raleigh in this case

 

[Sorinth]

Top 12 NHL Endorsers | opendorse

These numbers are about a decade old... but in 2009 Crosby and Ovechkin were the only NHLers making huge money.

Rick Nash was making 150k
Staal and Lecavalier 250K each

etc...

These were top name guys in their markets. Not the 4th defenceman in a tiny market. Those local ford dealership deals are peanuts.

They may be peanuts but it's not like the difference between MTL's yearly total and Carolina's was all that big to begin with.

The simple fact is Gardiner took the contract that paid him the most money, he didn't leave money on the table, he left potential money on the table. If you can't see why it might make financial sense to take the contract that pays you the most money there's no point in continuing.

Anyways this will be my last post on the subject since I really don't care about Gardiner.

 

[Paddyjack]

He added two big names in 2009 (Gionta and Cammalleri).

He added Hamrlik in 2007.

What other big names did he add? Samsonov? nope... he was like the only UFA left on the market when we struck out on every one else that year.... Spacek? I don't exactly consider him a big name UFA.

Meanwhile Bergevin has landed Alzner (who was the second biggest D that year, and yes he failed, but he still landed him)... and Radulov.

So I don't see a big difference here. Seems both landed a few but not many.

You can add Petry. He was technically a UFA when they signed him long term.

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

this is pure BS. Bergevin is hardly some unrespected GM, and is in fact very popular in NHL circles.

Yeah, so popular that no big FA names ever want to sign with us.

 

[angusyoung]

Yeah, so popular that no big FA names ever want to sign with us.

FA's are only gonna go where they want,they know the scene etc.,even if the coin offer is more than ridiculous. They will sign where they think they will be comfortable. Different players thrive in different scenarios,some prefer the low key,others prefer the light.

Glad they didn't sign Gardener,would have been an overs payment for what most likely Kulak can contribute,at a fraction of the cost,imao.

 

[yianik]

Its a lot longer than that... Bob Gainey was extremely well respected and he got turned down by numerous free agents like Briere, Elias, Shanahan, and others.

I don't think its a management problem.

It isnt. Gainey went after UFAs hard and the interest was not there. This is not something you can pin on Bergevin.

Screw it anyway. Half of UFA signings stink after a season. Stick with our guys who are good and want to stay, like PK, Markov, Patches, Plecs of recent note.

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

FA's are only gonna go where they want,they know the scene etc.,even if the coin offer is more than ridiculous. They will sign where they think they will be comfortable. Different players thrive in different scenarios,some prefer the low key,others prefer the light.

Glad they didn't sign Gardener,would have been an overs payment for what most likely Kulak can contribute,at a fraction of the cost,imao.

Fair enough but I still don't buy that current hockey players like and respect Bergevin. If they did, you'd think we'd be able to land a big FA fish once in a while.

 

[LastWordArmy]

They may be peanuts but it's not like the difference between MTL's yearly total and Carolina's was all that big to begin with.

The simple fact is Gardiner took the contract that paid him the most money, he didn't leave money on the table, he left potential money on the table. If you can't see why it might make financial sense to take the contract that pays you the most money there's no point in continuing.

Anyways this will be my last post on the subject since I really don't care about Gardiner.

The difference between Montreal's yearly total and Carolina's was over $1.5 million. It was significant.

 

[LastWordArmy]

You can add Petry. He was technically a UFA when they signed him long term.

I see Petry as the same as Gainey re-signing a guy like Kovalev. So its still a wash.

It still shows that Bergevin isn't doing better or worse than past regimes. There is something going on with the Habs and UFAs that goes deeper than who is the GM.