News Article: Habs offered Gardiner a 3 year 15.75 million contract!

[Lafleurs Guy]

We haven't had a contending team in a long time. We had a great season in 2008 but that was a one off. It looked like we were building one in 2013-15 but we screwed that up too and didn't add anything to it. And now we're in another rebuild/retool stage.

Who the hell wants to join that?

 

[Habby4Life]

Gardiner & Duchene this summer.

Statsny & Tavares didn't even listen to offers from him (don't recall any UFA flat out refusing to hear from Gainey)

That's off top of my head of others beyond lucic

Gardiner and Duchene listened, got offers and chose elsewhere. Tavares wanted TO, everyone got shutout.

Historically MTL has had issues attracting top notch UFA’s. It is not a recent issue. Remember Mats Sundin. They acquired his rights before he became a Ufa and he didn’t want any part of mtl. Gainey went hard but Mats shut him out.

Build a winning team and the odds of landing a big meaningful UFA will increase dramatically. Until then why bother handing out crap contracts to middle of the road guys or ones looking for thier last big payday.

 

[Habby4Life]

Well it was quite public how he (and in some cases Therrien) had issues with many players. Markov, Subban, Patches, Galchenyuk, and Eller come to mind but there are others. He poisoned relationships and stunted the development of our young prospects.

And some of us DO know what the players think. Some of us know players and people in the organization. I have to refrain from claiming such because I am not allowed to make insider claims without vetting. So it's just my opinion.

Maybe you have inside info, I don’t know. I do know there are so many unsubstantiated claims made on these boards that are just simply bogus.

 

[Miller Time]

Gardiner and Duchene listened, got offers and chose elsewhere. Tavares wanted TO, everyone got shutout.

Historically MTL has had issues attracting top notch UFA’s. It is not a recent issue. Remember Mats Sundin. They acquired his rights before he became a Ufa and he didn’t want any part of mtl. Gainey went hard but Mats shut him out.

Build a winning team and the odds of landing a big meaningful UFA will increase dramatically. Until then why bother handing out crap contracts to middle of the road guys or ones looking for thier last big payday.

Funny... The Cammalleri/Gionta/Moen/Gill summer, Gio & Cammy both described exactly that as their main reason for coming here...

I recall arguing with Gainey fans at the time that while probably partly true, main reason was clearly that we outbid everyone else for them.

While I wasn't a fan of the moves, and would have taken a starkly different approach with our amazing cap/contract opportunity that summer, it was Gaineys ability to land 2 top UFAs & 2 of the better "depth/role player" UFAs in our free agent history that let him transform the team according to his vision (smurfville, unfortunately).

8 yrs in, it is clear that MB can't pull that level of UFA signing "success" , no matter how hard he keeps trying...

 

[JianYang]

That's simply not true.

It depends on your definition of marquee free agent, I suppose.

The player who came closest to that status was cammalleri, but thats not the level I'm referring to when I mention "marquee" talent.

 

[Habby4Life]

Funny... The Cammalleri/Gionta/Moen/Gill summer, Gio & Cammy both described exactly that as their main reason for coming here...

I recall arguing with Gainey fans at the time that while probably partly true, main reason was clearly that we outbid everyone else for them.

While I wasn't a fan of the moves, and would have taken a starkly different approach with our amazing cap/contract opportunity that summer, it was Gaineys ability to land 2 top UFAs & 2 of the better "depth/role player" UFAs in our free agent history that let him transform the team according to his vision (smurfville, unfortunately).

8 yrs in, it is clear that MB can't pull that level of UFA signing "success" , no matter how hard he keeps trying...

I wouldn’t call Gio or Cammy top notch UFA’s more middle of the road guys nor would I call it a success. He overpaid in $ and term to get them here. He also went out and sacrificed McDonagh for Gomez. Enough said of the Gainey era.

One could argue the Radulov signing was better than any of Gaineys UFA’s.

Frankly, signing middle road UFA’s is not going to solve the problem it just keeps them in the middle. Few UFA’s are worth it.

 

[JianYang]

None of Gainey’s FA’s were anything special. Some were good but they were overpaid and had to be offered too much term. TBH none made a heck of a lot of difference.

There hasnt been a big UFA come here since the Stone Age. Not just this GM’s issue, it’s a combination of poor teams and the perceived market.

The Gainey era was nothing to write home about. Last good era was Serge Savards early 90’s. It’s been a struggle since then.

Savard should be part of the exec team. Don’t care about his age, he knows talent and has seen it all in MTL

To be fair, hamrlik was a good player for the habs, but he'd have been crazy not to sign that deal.

Cammalleri and gionta got very generous contracts too.

It's not really rocket science to figure out the main reason these players signed.

 

[FormerLurker]

Woul've been;
Gardiner at 5.25 for 3 years
Alzner at 4.625 for 3 more years.
Chiarot at 3.5 for 3 years
13.375 total.
Absolutely not a fan. Thank god he signed with the Jerks.

It has already been explained to you that we never would have had both Gardiner and Chiarot on the team. Gardiner declined the offer, so Chiarot was signed instead.

When I bought my last house I had already come second place in the offer process three times on other houses. But they fell through, so I only have one house and one mortgage. The others are history.

 

[FormerLurker]

Makes the Chiarot signing even worse. How do you figure "well damn Gardiner turned down our offer, let's use all the money to overpay this plug Chiarot then"?

IQ95-

 

[FormerLurker]

Total salary: 16.2 vs 15.75
Taxes: I believe Carolina has a lower tax rate than QC for the 41 games. It is also spread out over 4 years so it is potentially easier to maximize returns. I'm no tax expert.

So what exactly is simply not true?

The Habs offer was only 3 years, so even if there is a tax disparity, he would have made enough in the next year after the Habs deal to make up for it.

 

[Miller Time]

I wouldn’t call Gio or Cammy top notch UFA’s more middle of the road guys nor would I call it a success. He overpaid in $ and term to get them here. He also went out and sacrificed McDonagh for Gomez. Enough said of the Gainey era.

One could argue the Radulov signing was better than any of Gaineys UFA’s.

Frankly, signing middle road UFA’s is not going to solve the problem it just keeps them in the middle. Few UFA’s are worth it.

What you choose to call them doesn't change what they were, unfortunately.

 

[Habby4Life]

It has already been explained to you that we never would have had both Gardiner and Chiarot on the team. Gardiner declined the offer, so Chiarot was signed instead.

When I bought my last house I had already come second place in the offer process three times on other houses. But they fell through, so I only have one house and one mortgage. The others are history.

Do you know when Gardiner turned down mtl’s offer? Chiarot signed July 4th, Gardiner just signed. It would depend on when Jake informed mtl they were out. It is plausible both could be a hab

 

[Miller Time]

To be fair, hamrlik was a good player for the habs, but he'd have been crazy not to sign that deal.

Cammalleri and gionta got very generous contracts too.

It's not really rocket science to figure out the main reason these players signed.

Same could be said for every top UFA getting top dollar every offseason...

 

[Miller Time]

It has already been explained to you that we never would have had both Gardiner and Chiarot on the team. Gardiner declined the offer, so Chiarot was signed instead.

When I bought my last house I had already come second place in the offer process three times on other houses. But they fell through, so I only have one house and one mortgage. The others are history.

Ummm you do realize that we were still in the running to sign Gardiner just last week, right?

 

[Habby4Life]

What you choose to call them doesn't change what they were, unfortunately.

What were they?

 

[FormerLurker]

Ummm you do realize that we were still in the running to sign Gardiner just last week, right?

No we weren't.

 

[Miller Time]

It's a big market, people like it, some don't. it has very little to do with how good the GM rubs their shoulders. Players know these dudes won't be there in a couple of years. but anyways ... all this because we missed out on Jacques Jardinier. What a tragedy.

That's not how people work...
Especially skilled workers with options.

I can tell you from experience that pro athletes absolutely do weigh the management (& coaching, & future teammates) of the teams they are considering FAR heavier than fans generally realize.

Some have little choice, but for those that do have options, it's a big factor

Gardiner is completely inconsequential to the discussion... Aside from being just another failed attempt by a GM who can't spend his money despite his best efforts

 

[Miller Time]

What were they?

Two of the top-5 fwds available in UFA that offseason.

 

[Beendair Donedat]

By a country mile.

Which is sad.

 

[Habby4Life]

Two of the top-5 fwds available in UFA that offseason.

Perfect example of a weak FA class. Let’s sign more of them to crap contracts

 

[Miller Time]

Perfect example of a weak FA class. Let’s sign more of them to crap contracts

Completely different argument. Try to stay on topic.

 

[Habby4Life]

Completely different argument. Try to stay on topic.

It’s on topic. Gainey overpaid for average and you are advocating for more it. I got it.

 

[Miller Time]

I'm fine that he made that offer, but I am also fine that Gardiner went elsewhere. I'm sure we weren't the only other team making him an offer. I don't blame him for choose the Canes he just spent a year getting pilled on by the Toronto media.

If you want to blame anything for why people don't sign here blame the rabid fans.... aka blame yourself (and myself too). Some guys want less pressure, can't really blame them.

The pressure/scrutiny certainly turns some players away...

But in marquee fan markets in any sport, you need gamers like Domi or PK who relish playing under that spotlight...

Not a bad thing that the wallflowers don't want to be here.

Weather, language, politics/taxes... Those are more unfortunate deterents... Which just amplifies the need to leverage the appeals (city, culture, legacy) we do have and damn well be sure that the factors we do control (management, team culture & direction) are league best/appealing.

Gainey understood that. Bergevin doesn't. It shows.

 

[Miller Time]

It’s on topic. Gainey overpaid for average and you are advocating for more it. I got it.

Nope, your conflating two separate things.

 

[ECWHSWI]

I wouldn’t call Gio or Cammy top notch UFA’s more middle of the road guys nor would I call it a success. He overpaid in $ and term to get them here. He also went out and sacrificed McDonagh for Gomez. Enough said of the Gainey era.

One could argue the Radulov signing was better than any of Gaineys UFA’s.

Frankly, signing middle road UFA’s is not going to solve the problem it just keeps them in the middle. Few UFA’s are worth it.

You know Camm had two 80 pts seasons in the previous three before joining the Habs right ?? middle of the road...


when Bergevin offers more money, UFA still say NO.