There are teams that wouldn't blink at Boeser's QO, in my opinion. Buffalo, Nashville, New Jersey, maybe Arizona, Detroit, Columbus...
Speculation: Fantasy GM and Rumor Roundup Thread | "Trader Jim" gearing up for TDL
- Thread starter Mr. Canucklehead
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Blue and Green
Out to lunch
- Dec 17, 2017
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There's no difference; Minnesota would've had to argue a case against a higher award for Fiala, same as Canucks with Boeser if they go to a hearing, which is unlikely. There's nothing sacred about a QO figure and the club has the arbitration option if it feels the number is modestly too high just as the player does if he feels it's too low. It's not as though the club promised a guy something and now they're trying to underhandedly get out of it.
Deeds26
Registered User
- Nov 11, 2006
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You're assuming that Boeser and the Canucks would go through the arbitration process though. There's still plenty of games to be played, but right now Boeser is on pace for 26 goals and 51 points (and might fall short of that). Boeser had a good season last year but in 19-20 he was on pace for 23 goals and he missed games. Given the Canucks' record over the past 3 seasons vis a vis his play, Boeser's camp has a weak argument that he contributes a lot to the Canucks winning. So Boeser's camp would need to evaluate what an arbitrator would likely award vs what the Canucks are offering to avoid arbitration.
I agree with @Blue and Green that there shouldn't be any hard feelings. Nobody is lowballing Boeser here. And at the time Boeser signed his contract, his previous two seasons were objectively better than what he has put up since with the exception of 20-21.
The way I see it is that Boeser should know that he hasn't earned a $7.5M AAV deal. Again, there's still a lot of games to be played and if Boeser gets hot down the stretch then ya he has a good case to be paid. But right now, it's not looking like it.
Arbitration is brutal for players. Generally it signals the start of the end for that player with the organization. They have to sit there as their employer tells a stranger how they’re essentially a piece of crap that’s not remotely worth what their contract says they’re entitled to. You may say he knows he’s not worth it. If that was the case then why has the signed an extension for less money? It’s because he knows what he’s contractually due.
Bettman Returnz
Why so serious?
If Lundqvist was a top notch defender/ stay at home his size could be overlooked… sounds like he’s more like rathbone though. You’d have to get strategic on how you deploy rathbone/Lundqvist/ Hughes (spilt them all up).
Diamonddog01
Diamond in the rough
Diversification
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- Jun 21, 2019
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Or you trade one of Rathbone or Lundkvist and recover an asset. I’d opt to keep whichever is better defensively and can log big minutes. QH and OEL will soak up all of the PP time for the foreseeable future.
tempted to put this in a new thread but I'll post here.
I'm curious how long people think it will take to turn this around. Key objectives that define a turn around could be:
1. Recover salary cap flexibility
2. Build prospect pool to at least a mid tier group
3. Team ranking that suggests a probability of winning at least two rounds of the playoffs and, with the right dominos falling, making it to the finals.
On the salary cap:
At a minimum, the Ferland, Hotlby, Luongo contracts need to be cleared.
Need to find players with equivalent on ice value for Myers, Pearson, Dickinson, Hamonic, and Poolman for a total of $6-$8M less.
With the exception of Hamonic (1 year after this one) all of these players have 2 years remaining on their contracts after this year. Moving them in trades will speed up the process.
For cap management they need to factor in how much Motte should be getting on an increase. $1.5M would be a good number. But he would probably get >$2M as a UFA. If they are trying to better manage the cap, they should move him this year.
For ELCs, Hoglander is up after one more year. Unless he takes a major step, his second contract should be manageable. Podkolzin is up after 2 more years. I'm hopeful he will develop into an important piece over that time. That said, I don't see him putting up the kind of numbers that warrant a huge raise after elc. So again, should be manageable.
They could do all of this without needing to move one of the big forward contracts but that doesn't mean they shouldn't (see competitiveness below).
For the salary cap, it can reasonably be done in two years and potentially accelerated to one year if some of the contracts can be moved.
On building the prospect pool:
They have Rathbone, high risk/high reward Klimovich, and decent goaltending depth. Lockwood could be a Motte replacement but still uncertain. I don't see any others that will be more than replacement level players. Realistically they need to add a half dozen players and put them on a development path that provides a great than 50/50 chance that they have significant NHL careers. This will take longer...3 to 4 years? Acquiring European and college FAs could speed up this process. Be great to find the next Chris Tanev.
On team competitiveness:
The core and the fringe core need to continue to have good development paths and show that early career struggles are exceptions rather than the rule (Pettersson). This includes Hughes, Demko, Pettersson, Boeser, Horvat, Podkolzin, Hoglander.
They need to fix the D once and for all. OEL is here to stay. He is a solid piece albeit at $2M too high. Outside of that they need two top 4 D men with at least 1 being a top pairing RHD. Moving one of the big forward contracts is likely necessary to achieve this within two years.
They need to reallocate Dickinson's money and find a legitimate 3C that is a Horvat light but better defensively (i.e nothing like Horvat)
All of this is doable in two years.
Conclusion: Fixing the salary cap is doable in two years, maybe less and most of it is within the team's control. Building the prospect pool will take longer (3 to 4 years) but eminently doable. There is a clear path to becoming a competitive team but a lot of things have to go right.
interesting times in Canuckland.
I'm curious how long people think it will take to turn this around. Key objectives that define a turn around could be:
1. Recover salary cap flexibility
2. Build prospect pool to at least a mid tier group
3. Team ranking that suggests a probability of winning at least two rounds of the playoffs and, with the right dominos falling, making it to the finals.
On the salary cap:
At a minimum, the Ferland, Hotlby, Luongo contracts need to be cleared.
Need to find players with equivalent on ice value for Myers, Pearson, Dickinson, Hamonic, and Poolman for a total of $6-$8M less.
With the exception of Hamonic (1 year after this one) all of these players have 2 years remaining on their contracts after this year. Moving them in trades will speed up the process.
For cap management they need to factor in how much Motte should be getting on an increase. $1.5M would be a good number. But he would probably get >$2M as a UFA. If they are trying to better manage the cap, they should move him this year.
For ELCs, Hoglander is up after one more year. Unless he takes a major step, his second contract should be manageable. Podkolzin is up after 2 more years. I'm hopeful he will develop into an important piece over that time. That said, I don't see him putting up the kind of numbers that warrant a huge raise after elc. So again, should be manageable.
They could do all of this without needing to move one of the big forward contracts but that doesn't mean they shouldn't (see competitiveness below).
For the salary cap, it can reasonably be done in two years and potentially accelerated to one year if some of the contracts can be moved.
On building the prospect pool:
They have Rathbone, high risk/high reward Klimovich, and decent goaltending depth. Lockwood could be a Motte replacement but still uncertain. I don't see any others that will be more than replacement level players. Realistically they need to add a half dozen players and put them on a development path that provides a great than 50/50 chance that they have significant NHL careers. This will take longer...3 to 4 years? Acquiring European and college FAs could speed up this process. Be great to find the next Chris Tanev.
On team competitiveness:
The core and the fringe core need to continue to have good development paths and show that early career struggles are exceptions rather than the rule (Pettersson). This includes Hughes, Demko, Pettersson, Boeser, Horvat, Podkolzin, Hoglander.
They need to fix the D once and for all. OEL is here to stay. He is a solid piece albeit at $2M too high. Outside of that they need two top 4 D men with at least 1 being a top pairing RHD. Moving one of the big forward contracts is likely necessary to achieve this within two years.
They need to reallocate Dickinson's money and find a legitimate 3C that is a Horvat light but better defensively (i.e nothing like Horvat)
All of this is doable in two years.
Conclusion: Fixing the salary cap is doable in two years, maybe less and most of it is within the team's control. Building the prospect pool will take longer (3 to 4 years) but eminently doable. There is a clear path to becoming a competitive team but a lot of things have to go right.
interesting times in Canuckland.
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Bettman Returnz
Why so serious?
Maybe it’s just me but I am finding many fan bases have a pref for almost anyone but miller… not sure if they are just misinformed on millers skill level and/or nervous about what the return would cost them.
So many UFA options but they would be a one-time playoff run. Seems silly if you can get someone for 2 runs!
So many UFA options but they would be a one-time playoff run. Seems silly if you can get someone for 2 runs!
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- Jan 23, 2010
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I don't know enough about Lundkvist as a prospect to know how he would fit, but we've certainly seen smaller guys here recently like Stecher do fine in the defensive zone.
My thought is that this team has 3 immediate needs on the blueline with no answer in the system:
-Top four, all-situations RHD
-Defensive LHD to play heavy minutes/PK
-Puck-moving RHD with top4 potential
Obviously the first guy on the list is the most difficult to get and I would slot Lundkvist as more of the third category as of now.
This team also needs to figure out the plan with Rathbone. Can he play RHD and fill that third spot? He doesn't fit as the LHD defensive guy.
Bettman Returnz
Why so serious?
Doesn't seem like rocket science to me but maybe I'm missing something. Miller's trade value is at an all time high. He will be getting a very big raise in his next contract, shortly after he turns 30 - not conducive to good cap and asset management. And reallocating his cap hit to fix the D is the fastest way to make this team competitive within 2 years.
I'm still looking at LA and thinking they'd be a good landing spot for miller, and they could do it without touching their roster or really thier top prospects. I think Faber would be a perfect fit with Hughes(even over grens), maybe see if they would put turcotte on the table. I'd do Faber and turcotte without a first in the deal.
Just A Bit Outside
Playoffs??!
- Mar 6, 2010
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Maybe but Boeser (as most have mentioned) needs to be dealt with in some capacity.
And Motte must be insulted with this comment.
Bettman Returnz
Why so serious?
Maybe it’s a draft day type of trade (Boeser)… and motte could be resigned? They do seem to like what he brings.
Samzilla
Prust & Dorsett are
- Apr 2, 2011
- 15,297
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God Rutherford is good at posturing. He's not saying anything substantial. Everything publicly has been that the team doesn't need to be broken down, they have time to evaluate, any changes might come in the summer. While all the leaks are split between "major changes coming" and "they'll probably wait until the offseason or next season".
The truth is that this team has only been together for a very short time. They are still information gathering and sorting with their own players and other teams players. From what it sounds like to me is that they are still evaluating who is the core to build around (Horvat, Boeser, and Miller's contract statuses being the main driving force). I'm expecting some small deals shedding some of the depth for open roster spots (maybe a Pearson, Dickinson, and/or Poolman-type if there's a market) with one big deal (Boeser or Miller stand out).
If it's not a massive trade deadline for this management team, I'm not going to complain. It would be fun from them to kick the doors down but I get why they would be hesitant.
The truth is that this team has only been together for a very short time. They are still information gathering and sorting with their own players and other teams players. From what it sounds like to me is that they are still evaluating who is the core to build around (Horvat, Boeser, and Miller's contract statuses being the main driving force). I'm expecting some small deals shedding some of the depth for open roster spots (maybe a Pearson, Dickinson, and/or Poolman-type if there's a market) with one big deal (Boeser or Miller stand out).
If it's not a massive trade deadline for this management team, I'm not going to complain. It would be fun from them to kick the doors down but I get why they would be hesitant.
I would be disappointed if they don't sell Miller now when his value is massive with two playoff runs. Unless something weird happens with the market, we shouldn't be able to touch this level of value again.
Otherwise, yeah. Agreed.
By now Benning would have made a press release concerning all the players he intended to move, and the draft picks he intended to include in any trade so as to sweeten the pot.
Reverend Mayhem
Lowly Serf/Reluctant Cuckold
Keep in mind this new staff has to put boots on the ground immediately, get moved and sorted out in Vancouver, have an organizational onboarding into Jim and Patrick's vision, then evaluate pretty much as many players in the league as possible, go into larger meetings of the hockey ops and finally war rooms before making any sort of moves. Fans and media are going to have to be patient.
Bettman Returnz
Why so serious?
Our offseason could be very busy if not much business conducted between now and deadline. Something has to give to create cap space.
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