Speculation: Fantasy GM and Rumor Roundup Thread | "Trader Jim" gearing up for TDL

[sting101]

Reminds me of that one guy in fantasy hockey trying to sell you on his crap (for your good players) lol!

or Rangers fans trade proposals

 

[Bettman Returnz]

Dickinson has been a big disappointment...In fact, Sutter would have been an upgrade on him (can win face-offs, score, and defend)...I would be impressed if JR could make Dicky go away.

Poolman, to me, has been inconsistent..He's obviously a limited player, but his salary is a little north of 3rd pairing D man (who can occasionally fill in the top 4)...He is what he is.

Is there any scenario where we could trade one (or both) for a player with slightly higher a hit for this year (and maybe next)?
Eg poolman for stralman… maybe we add a late pick. They have like no team next year.

 

[ziploc]

ask JR...?

 

[strattonius]

Something that hasn't really been pointed out wrt the Toffoli valuation is that there was no retention and it brought me back to the recent proposals being thrown out in the Miller deal.

If we retain 50% on Miller and are getting some 1st, Kravstov, Lundkvist deal—that is atrocious value. If there's zero retention and 5.4MM next year is gone, the calculus changes but I don't think they should jump at that package as it truly is NYR's misfits who have a very limited future with the franchise.

There's two things that could drive insane amounts of value here: 1) two playoff runs and 2) the potential to retain down to ~850k cap this year, 2.7MM cap next year.

I don't think there's any chance we retain on Miller. Team is looking to get rid of CAP and Miller's value is already sky high there's no need to charity unless you're getting a king's ransom. There's Ranger fans on the main board that think Lundkvist, 1st and Chytil is fair value for Miller retained at 50% - its a joke.

 

[Bettman Returnz]

or Rangers fans trade proposals

Can’t argue that… not that Canuck fans are angels lol. But feels like we are talking to a wall, same few fans imposing their opinion. Going nowhere.

 

[arttk]

I don't think there's any chance we retain on Miller. Team is looking to get rid of CAP and Miller's value is already sky high there's no need to charity unless you're getting a king's ransom. There's Ranger fans on the main board that think Lundkvist, 1st and Chytil is fair value for Miller retained at 50% - its a joke.

Did Servalli post a rumor of how we are looking for like 4 1st round equivalent for Miller a little back. I imagine that is what we are asking for without retention. Price is going to be even more for retention and I doubt any team will want to pay that.

 

[Vector]

The problem with Poolman is that when everyone is healthy (which will never happen but just think about it) he now profiles as the 4th best RD (Myers, Schenn, and Hamonic) so he's depth defender being paid a premium for a long time. The plan going into the season was for Schenn to be the 7th guy but Hamonic's vaccine status and injuries forced everyone to play up in the lineup. Schenn responded and Poolman didn't.

He also can't make an outlet pass to save his life but that's not really part of the discussion. Just drives me crazy.

Now the issue with Dickinson and Poolman is they each have term and bloated contracts for what they bring. At this point, their roster spots are more valuable than the players.

 

[iceburg]

The plan to fix the D should be straight forward just not completely within the teams control. As priorities I would focus on trying to achieve the following:

1. move Myers' contract, ideally without having to pay to move it.
2. trade for/develop a shutdown style 20-23 year old RHD with top 4 potential.
3. Move one of Rathbone or Hughes to the right side, likely Rathbone. Rathbone will be wasted playing behind Hughes and OEL.
4. Sign/trade for two bottom pairing D men for the right price (ala Schenn) with one being able to smoothly slot into the top four when necessary.
5. Build legitimate depth in the 7 to 9 slots with an emphasis on defense and toughness. A guy like Burroughs fits this role nicely.

Pairings starting the 23/24 season (if things go splendidly well, maybe even the 22/23 season):

Hughes - new guy 1
OEL-Rathbone
New guy 2 - Schenn (0r Schenn replacement)

I realize there is risk associated with Rathbone's development but I believe this is what they should be targeting.

 

[timw33]

Can’t argue that… not that Canuck fans are angels lol. But feels like we are talking to a wall, same few fans imposing their opinion. Going nowhere.

Just good to remind ourselves that they do not represent NYR front office opinions/valuations, nor do we represent our front office opinions/valuations.

All we get are the intentionally leaked deal structures as the teams passive aggressively engage in discussions through the media as well as over the phone.

 

[Vector]

My only thought on this one is that the sharks are circling and trying to get whatever meat they can get.



It's important to note which players are at the forefront of the rumors: Miller, Garland, Schenn, Burroughs, and now Hoglander. Boeser as well but I'm not sure his value is as clearly defined as what was reported yesterday. Basically, teams know which players suck (we aren't hearing how teams are calling on Dickinson) or are unmovable (Canucks want to move Halak but he won't waive his NMC) and are probably trying to acquire some of the good ones if they are willing to take an under-performing player with them ("say we trade you some young guys and picks fro Hoglander and Poolman").

 

[sting101]

Dickinson and Poolman should be just treated as buy outs at this point.

If you find improvements just bury them it's 3.5 million we could use towards a good player

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

The plan to fix the D should be straight forward just not completely within the teams control. As priorities I would focus on trying to achieve the following:

1. move Myers' contract, ideally without having to pay to move it.
2. trade for/develop a shutdown style 20-23 year old RHD with top 4 potential.
3. Move one of Rathbone or Hughes to the right side, likely Rathbone. Rathbone will be wasted playing behind Hughes and OEL.
4. Sign/trade for two bottom pairing D men for the right price (ala Schenn) with one being able to smoothly slot into the top four when necessary.
5. Build legitimate depth in the 7 to 9 slots with an emphasis on defense and toughness. A guy like Burroughs fits this role nicely.

Pairings starting the 23/24 season (if things go splendidly well, maybe even the 22/23 season):

Hughes - new guy 1
OEL-Rathbone
New guy 2 - Schenn (0r Schenn replacement)

I realize there is risk associated with Rathbone's development but I beleive this is what they should be targeting.

1. You move Myers out, you have to replace him, essentially plugging one leak and springing another..He's playing his best hockey as a Canuck...Schenn,Poolman,Juulsen,Woo ,Hamonic is not a succession plan.
2. Personally, I think Rathbone is expendable...If the Canucks trade for a young top 4 RHD, he could be part of that trade.

 

[Canucker]

1. You move Myers out, you have to replace him, essentially plugging one leak and springing another..He's playing his best hockey as a Canuck...Schenn,Poolman,Juulsen,Woo ,Hamonic is not a succession plan.
2. Personally, I think Rathbone is expendable...If the Canucks trade for a young top 4 RHD, he could be part of that trade.

If you can move out Myers and his $6m, I'd be fine rolling any of the players you listed in his place for next season.

 

[Vector]

Dickinson and Poolman should be just treated as buy outs at this point.

If you find improvements just bury them it's 3.5 million we could use towards a good player

Putting them in the minors would save 1.125m each for Dickinson and Poolman for a 2.25m cap savings. For buyouts it would be like this:

-Dickinson's 2.65m = $991,677 for 4 seasons
-Poolman's 2.5m = $991,677 for 6 seasons

Essentially you would be lowering your cap by 2m for 4 seasons (and 1m for another 2 years) just to not roster these guys.

 

[strattonius]

Did Servalli post a rumor of how we are looking for like 4 1st round equivalent for Miller a little back. I imagine that is what we are asking for without retention. Price is going to be even more for retention and I doubt any team will want to pay that.

I like the valuation of value but I don't think we'd get it. The market for a 2 yr rental at a steep steep price can only get you so many offers. Getting a bidding war in the off season might get you just as much value just because he will get more interest on a more affordable price - I'm guessing our new regime has the foresight to understand this market concept.

 

[M2Beezy]

But Sutter was actually good...

Thats a new 'but'

 

[DonnyNucker]

Something that hasn't really been pointed out wrt the Toffoli valuation is that there was no retention and it brought me back to the recent proposals being thrown out in the Miller deal.

If we retain 50% on Miller and are getting some 1st, Kravstov, Lundkvist deal—that is atrocious value. If there's zero retention and 5.4MM next year is gone, the calculus changes but I don't think they should jump at that package as it truly is NYR's misfits who have a very limited future with the franchise.

There's two things that could drive insane amounts of value here: 1) two playoff runs and 2) the potential to retain down to ~850k cap this year, 2.7MM cap next year.

Not that I disagree but there is no way we retain

 

[MS]

Putting them in the minors would save 1.125m each for Dickinson and Poolman for a 2.25m cap savings. For buyouts it would be like this:

-Dickinson's 2.65m = $991,677 for 4 seasons
-Poolman's 2.5m = $991,677 for 6 seasons

Essentially you would be lowering your cap by 2m for 4 seasons (and 1m for another 2 years) just to not roster these guys.

In both cases there is no real gain once you fill the roster spots with cheap depth guys.

 

[Vector]

"There's no urgency to make trades."

"When most Hall of Famers are at a point in their lives and their careers where they are contemplating their golf game, travel or maybe taking up pottery (why not?)"

HEY! My mom does pottery. Has her own kiln and studio. Her stuff is pretty awesome.

"And so certainly a decision has to be made as to where we presently are as a team and where we want to get to but we don’t have to start over. We know that. We have a number of good players here so we’ll see where it goes."

"Well, we’re in a position that we don’t have to feel any pressure this year because we don’t have top players where they’re going to be UFAs. So there’s no urgency here to make those kinds of decisions. Our decisions will be made step by step as to what we think is best for the franchise now and in the future."

 

[Vector]

In both cases there is no real gain once you fill the roster spots with cheap depth guys.

Exactly. The only real way out of those contracts is to find a way to trade them. I suspect we may be stuck with them unless someone else has been a huge fan of them.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

If you can move out Myers and his $6m, I'd be fine rolling any of the players you listed in his place for next season.

Which would essentially send the team to the cellar..I don't think thats the plan.

 

[iceburg]

1. You move Myers out, you have to replace him, essentially plugging one leak and springing another..He's playing his best hockey as a Canuck...Schenn,Poolman,Juulsen,Woo ,Hamonic is not a succession plan.
2. Personally, I think Rathbone is expendable...If the Canucks trade for a young top 4 RHD, he could be part of that trade.

Disagree...actually pretty strongly.

Absolutely Myers is playing the best hockey as a Canuck. This is exactly why it's remotely possible to move his contract without paying, maybe even get a younger D asset in return. He is not the solution even in the mid term. I just think it's incredibly short sighted to be willing to absorb that cap hit, at the cost of being unable to acquire younger pieces that can grow with the core, all in order to maybe win a few more games in the short term.

The bolded comment isn't going to age well. He is literally coming off being player of the week in the AHL and is the second highest Pt/Gm D man right now in the league.

 

[M2Beezy]

Dickinson has been a big disappointment...In fact, Sutter would have been an upgrade on him (can win face-offs, score, and defend)...I would be impressed if JR could make Dicky go away.

Poolman, to me, has been inconsistent..He's obviously a limited player, but his salary is a little north of 3rd pairing D man (who can occasionally fill in the top 4)..as advertised...He is what he is.

Sutter could score lol. Anything to minimize the negative shit stain Benning left here is pretty important work I guess...

54 goals in 275 games...

Or 16 goals over 82 games...

Yeah 'could score' compared to you and I maybe, but for a $4.6 million NHL player thats pretty yikes

But like Benning said hes the kinda guy you win with in the playoffs and that 1 goal in 17 playoff games for us was worth like 20 goals so theres that I guess

Sutter could score!

 

[Canucker]

Which would essentially send the team to the cellar..I don't think thats the plan.

You're saying that replacing Myers with any of Poolman, Schenn, Juulsen, etc...would send us to the cellar? I'll give you that Myers has been better most of this season, more so than in any other season here, but he's a long way from being a hard guy to replace. Also, if we're looking at trading away Miller, Boeser, Motte, etc...I think that puts us closer to the cellar than replacing Myers with any of those other guys.

 

[Vector]

If you replace Myers and his caphit there's no way of replacing him. It's impossible. A team simply can't sign a UFA or utilize their capspace effectively to acquire good players that fit into the same structure?! The Canucks would be forced to play with 5 defenceman! Everyone who was brought in from the previous regime is irreplaceable!