Management Eugene Melnyk -Lawsuits, rants, and more...

[TheNewEra]

So, if the situation being presented is that we draft both Laff and Byflied, how are you going to feel when Melnyk decides not to extend them into their UFA years and trade them for magic beans?

This is a perfectly fine pov had the chabot and white extensions not happened. I want melnyk out as much as the next person but gotta keep the attacks accurate.

 

[Crosside]

So, if the situation being presented is that we draft both Laff and Byflied, how are you going to feel when Melnyk decides not to extend them into their UFA years and trade them for magic beans?

Depend how long we have them. If it s 3 years of elc + 8 years. I m gonna very happy. And I know in 11 years Melnyk gonna be sold

 

[Micklebot]

Im not sure about that. McDavid has done well without access to the best coaches. Brady, CBrown, Duclair show fire in their games we just don't have any elite skill. Did STL win the cup because they had the leagues best management? It is fine to disagree, but the foundation of that team winning was Kane, Towes, Seabrook, Keith, Campbell, Buff etc. They were stacked with talent and added some nice pieces. There were tonnes of GM's and coaches in the league that could guide that team.

It's easy to say anyone could have done it after it's all said and done. Btw, Campbell is somebody they went out and got after Wirtz died, so not sure you can include him there. Do they add Hossa and Campbell with Bill Wirtz still alive counting the dollars? Idk that he signs off on adding a combined 15 mil in UFA signings to their roster given his history of shipping guys off when they ask for market value.

You need everything working together.

 

[BatherSeason]

This is a perfectly fine pov had the chabot and white extensions not happened. I want melnyk out as much as the next person but gotta keep the attacks accurate.

Colin White isn't even in the same ballpark as Laff, Byfield, and Chabot. Not a good comparaison.

 

[Sweatred]

Colin White isn't even in the same ballpark as Laff, Byfield, and Chabot. Not a good comparaison.

His salary puts him in the same ballpark. We’re paying him $6.25 and Chabot $8 in a few years.

 

[jhutter]

This is a perfectly fine pov had the chabot and white extensions not happened. I want melnyk out as much as the next person but gotta keep the attacks accurate.

If Laf pans out to be the player that he's expected to become, you're looking at an 8 year extension that has an AAV of more than double White's AAV.

 

[Sensung]

This is a perfectly fine pov had the chabot and white extensions not happened. I want melnyk out as much as the next person but gotta keep the attacks accurate.

Well if you want to deal with the facts, you might want to add that when Chabot gets to 10M for his UFA years in 24-25, he has a limited NTC and Melnyk can ship him out.

Let's say things work out with Brady and he signs the "Chabot deal".

How may of our other prospects have to pan out until we are right back at "too expensive" phase?

Would Laf take less than Chabot coming out of his ELC if he wins the Calder and is an All Star?

It's great to have a big pool of prospects on ELC's...they don't stay there for long!!!

 

[Sweatred]

It's easy to say anyone could have done it after it's all said and done. Btw, Campbell is somebody they went out and got after Wirtz died, so not sure you can include him there. Do they add Hossa and Campbell with Bill Wirtz still alive counting the dollars? Idk that he signs off on adding a combined 15 mil in UFA signings to their roster given his history of shipping guys off when they ask for market value.

You need everything working together.

Not sure - Chicago has an impressive run under BW where they added Chelios types. They made the playoffs like 20+ years in a row and came out of it with a stale arena, aging talent and a long/failed rebuild. Their failed rebuild isn much different than ours or the Leafs who tried to rush things without bottoming out before bottoming out. Detroit is in the middle of a long rebuild after a 70-late 80’s Chicago type tun.

It will be interesting for me to see how teams like Pitt deal with losing Mallon/Crosby when the time comes.

 

[TheNewEra]

Well if you want to deal with the facts, you might want to add that when Chabot gets to 10M for his UFA years in 24-25, he has a limited NTC and Melnyk can ship him out.

He definitely can ship him out, your original post stated that we would not extend players into their UFA years and trade them for magic beans which is not true

Again feel free to attack Melnyk for things he has done but not for a potential future when recent transactions show otherwise

I brought up white because going into this past season the biggest worry was being able to resign white and chabot and we ended up resigning both. White has not turned out to what we expected/hoped but going into the season he was being looked at as a top 6 shutdown center and a must keep piece.

Laf when needing an extension would probably be looking in the chabot range if not more but again thats expecting linear growth from him, no sophomore slump etc etc

As for the limited NTC how is that a bad thing. As a team it makes no sense to be handcuffed by a full NTC or NMC if you dont have to be. Additionally players on full NTC's or NMC's also get moved so that really means very little besides giving players more power and making it harder to manage the team

Jumping down the rabbit hole when recent views show otherwise is honestly a waste. You have every right to there is no point to it. If we end up f***ing up brady's extension i will riot with you and attack everyone. Until then ...

 

[Sensung]

He definitely can ship him out, your original post stated that we would not extend players into their UFA years and trade them for magic beans which is not true

Again feel free to attack Melnyk for things he has done but not for a potential future when recent transactions show otherwise

I brought up white because going into this past season the biggest worry was being able to resign white and chabot and we ended up resigning both. White has not turned out to what we expected/hoped but going into the season he was being looked at as a top 6 shutdown center and a must keep piece.

Laf when needing an extension would probably be looking in the chabot range if not more but again thats expecting linear growth from him, no sophomore slump etc etc

As for the limited NTC how is that a bad thing. As a team it makes no sense to be handcuffed by a full NTC or NMC if you dont have to be. Additionally players on full NTC's or NMC's also get moved so that really means very little besides giving players more power and making it harder to manage the team

Jumping down the rabbit hole when recent views show otherwise is honestly a waste. You have every right to there is no point to it. If we end up f***ing up brady's extension i will riot with you and attack everyone. Until then ...

It wasn't my post you were responding to.

I have repeatedly pointed out that Melnyk has made zero commitment to pay the new star players in their UFA years. That is why the NTC is important. It shows real commitment to the player and rebuild.

Eugene wants the appearance of commitment to sell tickets.

 

[jhutter]

He definitely can ship him out, your original post stated that we would not extend players into their UFA years and trade them for magic beans which is not true

Again feel free to attack Melnyk for things he has done but not for a potential future when recent transactions show otherwise

I brought up white because going into this past season the biggest worry was being able to resign white and chabot and we ended up resigning both. White has not turned out to what we expected/hoped but going into the season he was being looked at as a top 6 shutdown center and a must keep piece.

Laf when needing an extension would probably be looking in the chabot range if not more but again thats expecting linear growth from him, no sophomore slump etc etc

As for the limited NTC how is that a bad thing. As a team it makes no sense to be handcuffed by a full NTC or NMC if you dont have to be. Additionally players on full NTC's or NMC's also get moved so that really means very little besides giving players more power and making it harder to manage the team

Jumping down the rabbit hole when recent views show otherwise is honestly a waste. You have every right to there is no point to it. If we end up f***ing up brady's extension i will riot with you and attack everyone. Until then ...

I think that you'll find that most fans' "until then" expired many moons ago.

 

[Sensung]

I think that you'll find that most fans' "until then" expired many moons ago.

The rest appear to suffer from "battered fan syndrome", where they say "this time it will be different".

(No offence intended to people suffering from domestic abuse intended)

 

[BatherSeason]

Jumping down the rabbit hole when recent views show otherwise is honestly a waste.

Re-signing your own RFAs is not a major accomplishment. This is just something that happens.

 

[IlTerrifico]

So, if the situation being presented is that we draft both Laff and Byflied, how are you going to feel when Melnyk decides not to extend them into their UFA years and trade them for magic beans?

Come on, look at the StooEuge, aging 3 years for every year that passes, organs dying off...

The question is, will his daughters as new owners want to spend to win, or maybe Ruddy after he wins the lawsuit.

Maybe our best strategy is to try to get some big Sens fans hooked up with the StooEuge progeny, who will take over things post-Cheapo, and ensure that we are in it to win it. Of course in a perfect scenario, Alfie comes in as GM.....

 

[TheNewEra]

I think that you'll find that most fans' "until then" expired many moons ago.

It wasn't my post you were responding to.

I have repeatedly pointed out that Melnyk has made zero commitment to pay the new star players in their UFA years. That is why the NTC is important. It shows real commitment to the player and rebuild.

Eugene wants the appearance of commitment to sell tickets.

Sorry I was responding to both of your posts but was not able to multi-quote earlier

Again this is not me defending melnyk, i want him gone gone but just trying to be objective. I am not fully buying into the new process considering the amount of times we have been burned as fans (feel free to see my post regarding yesterday's hiring) but the point of not signing star players that are part of our rebuild is wrong from recent transactions. I will light the damn fire if he messes up with Brady's extension

As for the NTC, the real commitment to the player is the contract. The NTC is added security of staying in that location. Why commit to a full NTC when you literally dont know what the future holds from a teams perspective. Why commit to an NTC or NMC when it has the potential to burn us badly down the road. (See either Heatley trade or Spezza trade)

For your point of Eugene wanting the appearance for tickets and its a false commitment to the UFA years lets break that down. 26 million for Chabot before his 'ufa years' and either 16 or 20 million to White before his 'ufa years'. If we are talking about one or both players in reference to the appearance to sell tickets that is a lot of money being spent upfront to selling tickets for a market that has had its average attendance go down 3 years in a row

 

[Sensung]

Sorry I was responding to both of your posts but was not able to multi-quote earlier

Again this is not me defending melnyk, i want him gone gone but just trying to be objective. I am not fully buying into the new process considering the amount of times we have been burned as fans (feel free to see my post regarding yesterday's hiring) but the point of not signing star players that are part of our rebuild is wrong from recent transactions. I will light the damn fire if he messes up with Brady's extension

As for the NTC, the real commitment to the player is the contract. The NTC is added security of staying in that location. Why commit to a full NTC when you literally dont know what the future holds from a teams perspective. Why commit to an NTC or NMC when it has the potential to burn us badly down the road. (See either Heatley trade or Spezza trade)

For your point of Eugene wanting the appearance for tickets and its a false commitment to the UFA years lets break that down. 26 million for Chabot before his 'ufa years' and either 16 or 20 million to White before his 'ufa years'. If we are talking about one or both players in reference to the appearance to sell tickets that is a lot of money being spent upfront to selling tickets for a market that has had its average attendance go down 3 years in a row

Signing star players through their RFA years is par for the course for every NHL team.

Not providing Chabot with a full NTC means he is not committed to paying him for UFA years, which was precisely my point. (White is not a star, but he doesn't have any trade protection at all for his UFA year.)

People quote the contract like Eugene has committed for 8 years, when that is simply not true. When Chabot is still a bargain in the first 4 years making 6.5 M on average (same as EK ) then Eugene will pay. When Thomas is making an average of 9.5 M in the final 4 years, the odds of him being sold off to keep costs down skyrockets.

As one of the former failed mouthpieces reminded us, Eugene is required to spend to the cap floor. In spite of his best attempts to circumvent the floor this past season, paying Chabot and White helped reach that mark. It’s far less about commitment on Eugene’s part and more about meeting his obligations in order to hold onto the franchise.

 

[jhutter]

Sorry I was responding to both of your posts but was not able to multi-quote earlier

Again this is not me defending melnyk, i want him gone gone but just trying to be objective. I am not fully buying into the new process considering the amount of times we have been burned as fans (feel free to see my post regarding yesterday's hiring) but the point of not signing star players that are part of our rebuild is wrong from recent transactions. I will light the damn fire if he messes up with Brady's extension

As for the NTC, the real commitment to the player is the contract. The NTC is added security of staying in that location. Why commit to a full NTC when you literally dont know what the future holds from a teams perspective. Why commit to an NTC or NMC when it has the potential to burn us badly down the road. (See either Heatley trade or Spezza trade)

For your point of Eugene wanting the appearance for tickets and its a false commitment to the UFA years lets break that down. 26 million for Chabot before his 'ufa years' and either 16 or 20 million to White before his 'ufa years'. If we are talking about one or both players in reference to the appearance to sell tickets that is a lot of money being spent upfront to selling tickets for a market that has had its average attendance go down 3 years in a row

I understand the optimism; there isn't much else left. With that said, being "objective" does not mean taking an event or two that supports an argument while ignoring a greater number of opposite events that contradict said argument. We can all be guilty of recency bias, but it shouldn't be labeled as being "objective."

I don't dislike/distrust Melnyk for the sake of disliking/distrusting him, I have those feelings due to years of experiencing his behaviour.

The fact that fans are over the moon about a) signing a star, homegrown player to a contract that 30 other teams would do in a heartbeat and; b) signing a ceiling 2C for six years, says far more about what has happened in the past than what is going to happen in the future.

 

[Sweatred]

White is not a star, but he doesn't have any trade protection at all for his UFA.

White’s contract IS his NTC.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Signing star players through their RFA years is par for the course for every NHL team.

Not providing Chabot with a full NTC means he is not committed to paying him for UFA years, which was precisely my point. (White is not a star, but he doesn't have any trade protection at all for his UFA year.)

People quote the contract like Eugene has committed for 8 years, when that is simply not true. When Chabot is still a bargain in the first 4 years making 6.5 M on average (same as EK ) then Eugene will pay. When Thomas is making an average of 9.5 M in the final 4 years, the odds of him being sold off to keep costs down skyrockets.

As one of the former failed mouthpieces reminded us, Eugene is required to spend to the cap floor. In spite of his best attempts to circumvent the floor this past season, paying Chabot and White helped reach that mark. It’s far less about commitment on Eugene’s part and more about meeting his obligations in order to hold onto the franchise.

That 866 thousand that Chabot made, sure helped eh.

 

[Sensung]

That 866 thousand that Chabot made, sure helped eh.

Because meeting the cap floor is a one year only obligation, right?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Because meeting the cap floor is a one year only obligation, right?

If you read what you wrote, I bolded it, in my reply, you said," In spite of his best attempts to circumvent the floor this past season, paying Chabot and White helped reach that mark."

Key words being this past season., right?

 

[Sensung]

If you read what you wrote, I bolded it, in my reply, you said," In spite of his best attempts to circumvent the floor this past season, paying Chabot and White helped reach that mark."

Key words being this past season., right?

You are correct. It had minimal impact on the cap this year.

How about in terms of trying to convince people that the “rebuild” was legit?

How about in terms of the cap going forward?

 

[bert]

I understand the optimism; there isn't much else left. With that said, being "objective" does not mean taking an event or two that supports an argument while ignoring a greater number of opposite events that contradict said argument. We can all be guilty of recency bias, but it shouldn't be labeled as being "objective."

I don't dislike/distrust Melnyk for the sake of disliking/distrusting him, I have those feelings due to years of experiencing his behaviour.

The fact that fans are over the moon about a) signing a star, homegrown player to a contract that 30 other teams would do in a heartbeat and; b) signing a ceiling 2C for six years, says far more about what has happened in the past than what is going to happen in the future.

Great post.

 

[JD1]

If Chicago has great coaches and management why do they suck now ? I assume that great management would have hired a better replacement for Q who could “coach” them to more wins.

it’s an exaggeration ... but Winning is 90% coaching and coaching is 90% recruitment”. I forget who said it, but it’s easy to Coach when you have the best players on the ice.

Scotty Bowman said it

What makes a good coach?

Good players

 

[JD1]

The time to start building around them was ~2012, damage was long done by the time we started offloading Karlsson, Stone et al.

We have a new opportunity to build around Tkachuk Chabot, and three 2020 1st round draft picks, not to mention Brannstrom, Batherson, and all the other prospects. Will we be able to make the corresponding off ice and on ice changes to tkae full advantage like Chicago did? Time will tell.

The legend of Mark Stone continues to grow. In 2012 Stone was playing in Brandon and was a 6th round pick.