Management Eugene Melnyk -Lawsuits, rants, and more...

[Sweatred]

How is that your takeaway from that article? Did you actually read it?

Sensung already pointed out several key parts but I’d also draw your attention to the part of the article where they explain that hiring Quenneville a proven excellent, experienced head coach, was a key to the turnaround.

Yes , I am dismissive of the admin/coaching changes vs the accumulation of assets. If the Sens are great in three years it won’t be because we hired Quenneville to lead LAF/BY. I’m not saying those things don’t make a difference.... but bottoming out and getting several top 3 picks is a more significant factor than coaching and buying Hossa (IMO).

 

[Micklebot]

The team could have easily been built around EK and MS, just not for an owner doing everything he can to spend less than the cap floor.

The time to start building around them was ~2012, damage was long done by the time we started offloading Karlsson, Stone et al.

We have a new opportunity to build around Tkachuk Chabot, and three 2020 1st round draft picks, not to mention Brannstrom, Batherson, and all the other prospects. Will we be able to make the corresponding off ice and on ice changes to tkae full advantage like Chicago did? Time will tell.

 

[Sensung]

Fair enough. I wouldn’t. EK, Chabot, Stone, and Brady would take nearly $35 million or half our budget and $40 with White and $46 with Ryan leaving about $1.5 each for the rest of the 16 players or basically $1 after Z etc.

White never would have gotten that deal if the Sens didn't hold the firesale. Contracts like Ryan's are moved or bought out all the time by owners willing to spend.

The cap is $81.5 M. The core you identified with EK, Stone, Chabot and Brady would not have taken half of the cap. Top players will always take up a larger portion of a team's cap space.

If you are good with being a farm team for the league then continue to support Eugene.

 

[Micklebot]

Yes , I am dismissive of the admin/coaching changes vs the accumulation of assets. If the Sens are great in three years it won’t be because we hired Quenneville to lead LAF/BY. I’m not saying those things don’t make a difference.... but bottoming out and getting several top 3 picks is a more significant factor than coaching and buying Hossa (IMO).

Just ask edm, amirite?

 

[Sensung]

How is that your takeaway from that article? Did you actually read it?

Sensung already pointed out several key parts but I’d also draw your attention to the part of the article where they explain that hiring Quenneville a proven excellent, experienced head coach, was a key to the turnaround.

Did Quenneville "walk on water"?

 

[Sweatred]

White never would have gotten that deal if the Sens didn't hold the firesale. Contracts like Ryan's are moved or bought out all the time by owners willing to spend.

The cap is $81.5 M. The core you identified with EK, Stone, Chabot and Brady would not have taken half of the cap. Top players will always take up a larger portion of a team's cap space.

If you are good with being a farm team for the league then continue to support Eugene.

I actually am great with being a farm team for the league. I think Recycling UFA talent is a better strategy than overpaying retirement contracts as the core ages.

 

[Sweatred]

Just ask edm, amirite?

If Chicago has great coaches and management why do they suck now ? I assume that great management would have hired a better replacement for Q who could “coach” them to more wins.

it’s an exaggeration ... but Winning is 90% coaching and coaching is 90% recruitment”. I forget who said it, but it’s easy to Coach when you have the best players on the ice.

 

[Sensung]

The time to start building around them was ~2012, damage was long done by the time we started offloading Karlsson, Stone et al.

We have a new opportunity to build around Tkachuk Chabot, and three 2020 1st round draft picks, not to mention Brannstrom, Batherson, and all the other prospects. Will we be able to make the corresponding off ice and on ice changes to tkae full advantage like Chicago did? Time will tell.

We already know the answer, unless like Chicago in the past, there is the needed change in ownership.

 

[Sensung]

I actually am great with being a farm team for the league. I think Recycling UFA talent is a better strategy than overpaying retirement contracts as the core ages.

Maybe become a Coyotes fan.

 

[Sweatred]

We already know the answer, unless like Chicago in the past, there is the needed change in ownership.

I do agree that it would be nice for a new owner to swoop in after Laf/By 2020 at least by 2022 and help boost this team at least towards the cap.

 

[Sweatred]

Maybe become a Coyotes fan.

They just traded the farm and last I checked are not even on the playoffs. They are stuck in no mans land.

 

[Sensung]

They just traded the farm and last I checked are not even on the playoffs. They are stuck in no mans land.

Welcome to our future.

 

[Bileur]

Yes , I am dismissive of the admin/coaching changes vs the accumulation of assets. If the Sens are great in three years it won’t be because we hired Quenneville to lead LAF/BY. I’m not saying those things don’t make a difference.... but bottoming out and getting several top 3 picks is a more significant factor than coaching and buying Hossa (IMO).

This article was linked in the previous one and is a great read:

The Breakaway: Chicago Blackhawks Owner Rocky Wirtz

In particular read the part about hiring McDonough as team president and the challenges he faced turning the team around.

Of course bringing in new stars is a key to turning it around like that, but as the article suggests Rocky Wirtz‘s determination to build a winner rather than to watch the bottom line was one of the main differences between him and his father.

Chicago doesn’t have it’s mini dynasty without an owner willing to pay to keep those stars around.

 

[Sensung]

This article was linked in the previous one and is a great read:

The Breakaway: Chicago Blackhawks Owner Rocky Wirtz

In particular read the part about hiring McDonough as team president and the challenges he faced turning the team around.

Of course bringing in new stars is a key to turning it around like that, but as the article suggests Rocky Wirtz‘s determination to build a winner rather than to watch the bottom line was one of the main differences between him and his father.

Chicago doesn’t have it’s mini dynasty without an owner willing to pay to keep those stars around.

The salient point, but I'd add a willingness spend to improve all aspects of the organization.

Wow, that is a fantastic article and should be required reading for the next Sens ownership group.

 

[Bileur]

If Chicago has great coaches and management why do they suck now ? I assume that great management would have hired a better replacement for Q who could “coach” them to more wins.

it’s an exaggeration ... but Winning is 90% coaching and coaching is 90% recruitment”. I forget who said it, but it’s easy to Coach when you have the best players on the ice.

The point of my sharing the article was about attendance, and how a bad owner can have a direct impact on attendance.

Chicago was 29th in average attendance in Bill Wirtz’s last year at the helm.

Rocky took over in 2007-2008, Chicago jumped to 19th.

They have been #1 in the league in average attendance every year since 2008-2009. Including these last few years of poorer on ice results.

It’s not just about winning, it’s about culture and community building.

 

[Sweatred]

Welcome to our future.

Where are the Yotes first round picks this year ?

 

[Sweatred]

The point of my sharing the article was about attendance, and how a bad owner can have a direct impact on attendance.

Chicago was 29th in average attendance in Bill Wirtz’s last year at the helm.

Rocky took over in 2007-2008, Chicago jumped to 19th.

They have been #1 in the league in average attendance every year since 2008-2009. Including these last few years of poorer on ice results.

It’s not just about winning, it’s about culture and community building.

Sure. But if we have Laf and By in our lineup next year along with prospects from the past few years including Norris, Batherson, Brann etc I would expect to see an attendance increase too.

I'm not dismissing your point at all. I also don't think any of it happens without the Crosby/Malkin type draft pic scenerio Chicago started icing in 2007. The situation is similar to me as Yzerman walking into Tampa with Hedman/Stamkos waiting for him or whoever takes over the Sens hopefully when the team is loaded with 20 year old elite prospects (hopefully). They have been given keys to the fastest race car and if they drive it well they should dominate the league.

 

[Sensung]

Where are the Yotes first round picks this year ?

Feel free to consult google.

While you are at it, check out the Oilers draft history!

 

[Sweatred]

Feel free to consult google.

While you are at it, check out the Oilers draft history!

I think we both no the answer ... which is why I don't think it is a good comparison or concern.

 

[Sensung]

I think we both no the answer ... which is why I don't think it is a good comparison or concern.

I'm not sure what you know.

I know that until Eugene is gone any Sens success will be extremely short lived.

Some fans will come back to the arena, but there are many who will simply withhold their money and watch and cheer from home. Just like Blachhawk fans did with their "Melnyk".

 

[Micklebot]

If Chicago has great coaches and management why do they suck now ? I assume that great management would have hired a better replacement for Q who could “coach” them to more wins.

it’s an exaggeration ... but Winning is 90% coaching and coaching is 90% recruitment”. I forget who said it, but it’s easy to Coach when you have the best players on the ice.

Success in pro sports is a little like the fire triangle. Heat, oxygen and fuel are needed for a fire to burn, take away one and you extinguish the flame. It may be easy to coach with best players, but rhe best players don't get anywhere without good coaching.

The example of Chicago brought together all the elements. Success was achieved. Now, the star players are aging and one of the pillars is missing. They need to address it, unfortunately between the nhl drafting system and the cap, it takes more than just wanting to fix it, and mistakes can require time to rectify.

The story of Chicago was never about ownership changes magically fixing everything. It was about tangible changes providing the foundation for success.

Bad ownership and managent pulls the oxygen out of the room. It will be tough to start a fire until that gets addressed regardless of how many great prospects we add.

 

[Sweatred]

Success in pro sports is a little like the fire triangle. Heat, oxygen and fuel are needed for a fire to burn, take away one and you extinguish the flame. It may be easy to coach with best players, but rhe best players don't get anywhere without good coaching.

The example of Chicago brought together all the elements. Success was achieved. Now, the star players are aging and one of the pillars is missing. They need to address it, unfortunately between the nhl drafting system and the cap, it takes more than just wanting to fix it, and mistakes can require time to rectify.

The story of Chicago was never about ownership changes magically fixing everything. It was about tangible changes providing the foundation for success.

Bad ownership and managent pulls the oxygen out of the room. It will be tough to start a fire until that gets addressed regardless of how many great prospects we add.

Im not sure about that. McDavid has done well without access to the best coaches. Brady, CBrown, Duclair show fire in their games we just don't have any elite skill. Did STL win the cup because they had the leagues best management? It is fine to disagree, but the foundation of that team winning was Kane, Towes, Seabrook, Keith, Campbell, Buff etc. They were stacked with talent and added some nice pieces. There were tonnes of GM's and coaches in the league that could guide that team.

 

[Bileur]

Success in pro sports is a little like the fire triangle. Heat, oxygen and fuel are needed for a fire to burn, take away one and you extinguish the flame. It may be easy to coach with best players, but rhe best players don't get anywhere without good coaching.

The example of Chicago brought together all the elements. Success was achieved. Now, the star players are aging and one of the pillars is missing. They need to address it, unfortunately between the nhl drafting system and the cap, it takes more than just wanting to fix it, and mistakes can require time to rectify.

The story of Chicago was never about ownership changes magically fixing everything. It was about tangible changes providing the foundation for success.

Bad ownership and managent pulls the oxygen out of the room. It will be tough to start a fire until that gets addressed regardless of how many great prospects we add.

I agree with your fire analogy, it’s a good one, but I didn’t see anyone suggesting that « ownership changes magically fixing everything ».

The Chicago story is actually a good example with the team going from one owner with a difficult reputation to one with a far worse reputation in the shift from Arthur to Bill Wirtz.

The shift to Rocky is the gold standard, getting a new owner who is committed to winning and building the team on and off the ice.

 

[Crosside]

White never would have gotten that deal if the Sens didn't hold the firesale. Contracts like Ryan's are moved or bought out all the time by owners willing to spend.

The cap is $81.5 M. The core you identified with EK, Stone, Chabot and Brady would not have taken half of the cap. Top players will always take up a larger portion of a team's cap space.

If you are good with being a farm team for the league then continue to support Eugene.

It s not support Melnyk. I would very happy if another owner have do that. The new reality is you keep your cap for ours young

 

[BatherSeason]

It s not support Melnyk. I would very happy if another owner have do that. The new reality is you keep your cap for ours young

So, if the situation being presented is that we draft both Laff and Byflied, how are you going to feel when Melnyk decides not to extend them into their UFA years and trade them for magic beans?