Re-read my post lol, He was NOT the best 2 way C in hockey last year.
No, it's judging players based on how good they are defensively based on the award given out to the best players defensively. You're just being asinine with giving him credit for something he has literally never accomplished and doesn't have an argument for beyond "because I say so".
By the time Bergeron started to come into the conversation for the best defensive player in hockey, he was already a finalist for the Selke or pushing for finalist finishes. Bergeron wasn't one of the best defensive players before he was in contention for those Selke finishes.
The Matthews argument is always points per game/goal scoring. Reality is the guy has never had more than 80 points in a season.
Yes, you will totally get 100% unbiased answers and that will settle it.
I can already tell you Mackinnon will win that poll by a landslide. But you're a troll first and foremost, you already know this.
Its funny that people on HF always believe and preach that the difference between these two is so large, yet ask major media outlets or actual hockey people and it will be a toss up.
Hmm, but Matthews is being viewed as a monster 2-way player by half of this thread. Based on what you're saying Barkov is clearly a better 2-way center since he's got plenty of more Selke votes. I'm glad that's settled.
Or, you can view the Selke for the reputation award it is. No matter what numbers Barkov and Matthews puts up this year they will receive lots of votes because of the narrative in the media.
Because the team sucked. Selke winners are always on good teams. Jesus Christ. Use your brain.So if he was the best 2-way center in hockey last year, why was he 11th in Selke voting last year?
Because the team sucked. Selke winners are always on good teams. Jesus Christ. Use your brain.
It's about knowing which teams it's okay to hate.I honestly don’t know how you haven’t been banned yet. Teach me your ways
I guess this may just come down to a difference of preferences in player evaluation. I fundamentally have problems with declaring a certain player is the best XXXX in anything if you're only basing it on a sample size of this season. For a player to actually become the best overall, instead of just the best in a single season, they need to have maintained levels at or near that "best" level. It's why the "MacKinnon is the best player in the world" posts were dumb, because it was an overreaction to 1 season and playoff run.
For me to begin even entertaining the idea that Barkov is a top-5 C, he needs to finish out this year like he has and then repeat it next year.
You’re arguing that he’s not currently the best 2 way center in hockey because the media has not voted him as the best 2 way center in hockey in previous years. Do you see the issue with that logic?His highest finish was 4th and he has 1 other 5th place finish. That doesn't sound like "getting nominated for the Selke" to me, at least at the level I'd deem "best 2-way center in hockey".
Saying "just watch him" is a lazy argument. I'm not arguing that Barkov is a bad 2-way player, I'm arguing he doesn't have a case for being the best 2-way player in hockey. I'm saying he doesn't have the resume to be put over Bergeron (or even Couturier if we want to go further) as the best 2-way center in hockey.
Look we get it you have an agenda. You also had one for matheson. Take off the homer glasses. It’s ok.Yes, the only reason Barkov didn't win the award was because of his team. You cracked the case! No way could it be that Barkov is just getting hilariously overrated. It's all his team's and the biased media's faults.
I'm still waiting for literally any argument for Barkov being a better 2-way center than Bergeron. Hell, I'd even be curious to hear an argument for Barkov over Couturier. Not that Barkov is having a better season this year, but Barkov has had a long enough sustained level of being a better 2-way player than Bergeron or Couturier to make it warranted to call him the best 2-way center in hockey.
The "Barkov is a top 5 C" narrative is one of the more bizarre and hilarious over-ratings of a player I've seen.
Yes, the only reason Barkov didn't win the award was because of his team. You cracked the case! No way could it be that Barkov is just getting hilariously overrated. It's all his team's and the biased media's faults.
I'm still waiting for literally any argument for Barkov being a better 2-way center than Bergeron. Hell, I'd even be curious to hear an argument for Barkov over Couturier. Not that Barkov is having a better season this year, but Barkov has had a long enough sustained level of being a better 2-way player than Bergeron or Couturier to make it warranted to call him the best 2-way center in hockey.
The poll is who is the best two way center. Untwist the G String and give me a list of who you think has a better defensive game out of the centers that have out scored him in the past 5 years.If you are going to make a claim like "he's the best 2-way center in hockey", then yes, I am going to look back at past year stats to evaluate that. Judging players based solely on 30 game sample sizes is downright asinine.
There's a massive difference between saying "Barkov is playing like the best 2-way center in hockey this year" (which may or may not be true) and "Barkov is the best 2-way center in hockey". It's the same difference as saying "the Panthers are playing like the best team in hockey this year" and "the Panthers are the best team in hockey".
"Just watch him bro" isn't a rebuttal against what the actual results say.
You’re arguing that he’s not currently the best 2 way center in hockey because the media has not voted him as the best 2 way center in hockey in previous years. Do you see the issue with that logic?
Barkov is playing with Carter Verhaeghe (who has magically turned into a star overnight), Anthony Duclair, and Mason Marchment. With those elite linemates, Barkov ranks 3rd in the NHL in xGF% behind only 2 Avs. The Avs have 11 of the top 20 players in the NHL in that metric. Other than Barkov and his linemates, the next best Panther is 72nd and the next best Panther forward is 218th.
He’s going to win the Selke hands down this year provided he stays healthy and is currently 4th in Hart voting despite missing time. After he finally wins his well deserved hardware are you ok with crowning him as the league’s best two way forward?
Look we get it you have an agenda. You also had one for matheson. Take off the homer glasses. It’s ok.
You’re arguing that he’s not currently the best 2 way center in hockey because the media has not voted him as the best 2 way center in hockey in previous years. Do you see the issue with that logic?
Barkov is playing with Carter Verhaeghe (who has magically turned into a star overnight), Anthony Duclair, and Mason Marchment. With those elite linemates, Barkov ranks 3rd in the NHL in xGF% behind only 2 Avs. The Avs have 11 of the top 20 players in the NHL in that metric. Other than Barkov and his linemates, the next best Panther is 72nd and the next best Panther forward is 218th.
He’s going to win the Selke hands down this year provided he stays healthy and is currently 4th in Hart voting despite missing time. After he finally wins his well deserved hardware are you ok with crowning him as the league’s best two way forward?
The poll is who is the best two way center. Untwist the G String and give me a list of who you think has a better defensive game out of the centers that have out scored him in the past 5 years.
Or better yet give me a center better offensively than him that also won all those Selkes' in the last 5 years.
I cant name one.
Barkov has the best 200 foot game in the league.
Matthews over Draisaitl? LMFAO
Better defensively? Debatable.Yes, I'm such a homer for....saying Patrice Bergeron (Bruins) and Sean Couturier (Flyers) are better than Barkov.
Yes, I'm a homer because I'm a PENGUINS fan saying that a BRUINS player and a FLYERS player is better than Barkov. Yes, I'm just a homer.
The mental gymnastics you have to go through to claim that a Penguins fan defending a Bruins and Flyers player is a "homer" is astounding.