ESPN Article: Top 10 Centers in the NHL, as Ranked by Players and Team Officials

[AvroArrow]

Honestly, what case does Barkov have for being in the top-5?

I'm starting to think Barkov is just becoming super overrated at this point. I genuinely don't see what he offers that should warrant him being in the top-5 on the same level as Matthews, Draisaitl and MacKinnon. Frankly I think it's pretty questionable to rank Barkov over Bergeron, seeing how Bergeron is just as productive and actually has defensive awards that Barkov doesn't have.

I'd have my top-5 be McDavid, MacKinnon, Draisaitl, Crosby and Matthews in that order. I don't see what Barkov offers to break into that top-5 group.

5th in ppg among centers while clearly being the best 2 way C. He's going to win the Selke and he's putting up elite offensive numbers and carrying Florida right now. I don't see any case for him being outside the top 5 other than a popularity contest.

And he will most likely be the next one to dominate those defensive awards. Nobody has any awards until they eventually win 1, that's such a weird way to judge a young player in present day. When Datsyuk was dominating the Selke that didn't mean Bergy wasn't elite and going to be the next one.

 

[Michael HOMERUNing]

Crosby is ahead of Draisaitl, Matthews, and MacKinnon. People seem to forget defense is a part of the game

 

[Semantics]

Because goals are the only thing that matters? Man that Marner guy must be a terrible player.

I mean he's not as good as Matthews. Just like how MacKinnon is not as good as Matthews.

 

[Muffin]

It can't be the fact that Matthews has more goals than either of them

You realize there are 40 players with more goals than Marner right? Funny you wouldn't make that argument in the wingers poll.

 

[Empoleon8771]

5th in ppg among centers while clearly being the best 2 way C. He's going to win the Selke and he's putting up elite offensive numbers and carrying Florida right now. I don't see any case for him being outside the top 5 other than a popularity contest.

And he will most likely be the next one to dominate those defensive awards. Nobody has any awards until they eventually win 1, that's such a weird way to judge a young player in present day. When Datsyuk was dominating the Selke that didn't mean Bergy wasn't elite and going to be the next one.

Best 2-way C? Then why hasn't he won the award for being the best 2 way C? Hell, why has he never even been a finalist for that? If he was as good as you're saying, he'd be at least a finalist or even challenging Bergeron for those awards. The last 3 winners have been Couturier, ROR and Kopitar, while Bergeron has been a finalist every year.

You're magically giving him credit for stuff he hasn't done, and ignoring that he's been a sub-PPG player in all but this year and 2 years ago. Take out the top-5 question for a second, what's even your argument for putting him over Bergeron?

 

[AvroArrow]

I don't know how someone can call a list terrible and then post this.

I don't know how someone can suggest a C who has never even sniffed the playoffs and actually has been a perennial lottery team that tied a record for 18 straight losses is a top 5 C. It's mind blowing. Other than being drafted 2nd overall behind McDavid what has he done to suggest he's a top 5 C in the league ? Forget the playoffs, he can't even get his team out of dead last and he's looked garbage while losing. 0 compete, 0 effort, 0 heart always whining and quitting on games. What has he done to suggest he's better than any of those guys I mentioned ? Can he be better ? yes, is he better ? No.

 

[Muffin]

I mean he's not as good as Matthews. Just like how MacKinnon is not as good as Matthews.

Funny how Leafs fans talk up Matthews but he's literally never been a finalist for an award other than the Calder. The highest he's ever placed was 10th for Hart.

Never won an individual award, his team has never made it out the first round. What exactly is he good at again?

 

[North Cole]

I think if they did it now..

1. McDavid
2. Drai
3. Crosby
4. MacKinnon
5. Barkov

I doubt it, Drai isn't doing anymore than last year. If they didn't have him that high after his Hart/Ross then I don't think what he's doing now moves the needle that much. Maybe could see him passing Crosby at 4.

 

[notDatsyuk]

The Marner and Hyman part was clearly a joke, so that's on you. But Tavares not being in the top 50 is a laughably bad opinion.

Oh, I got the joke alright, and I was being nice about Tavares.

Maybe I'm not the one who missed the joke.

 

[Avelanche]

Matthews two way game? Mackinnon focuses on being more of a dynamic offensive player that a all around two way center?

Mack CF% is 62 and has 18 ES goals against all year but yes he just goal hangs out there.

 

[AvroArrow]

Best 2-way C? Then why hasn't he won the award for being the best 2 way C? Hell, why has he never even been a finalist for that?

You're magically giving him credit for stuff he hasn't done, and ignoring that he's been a sub-PPG player in all but this year and 2 years ago. Take out the top-5 question for a second, what's even your argument for putting him over Bergeron?

You have to be kidding right ? "Why didn't Bergeron win the Selke until he finally won his 1st one ! ? If he was so good why didn't he win a Selke yet HUH?" This has to be the stupidest way to evaluate a player.

Magically giving him credit for dominating the hardest division in hockey and being elite at both ends ? You're ignoring everything he's done this year and are stuck 2 years in the past, watch this year.

"If we ignore his 2 best years, he's never been a ppg player !" just stop man.

That he's playing significantly better and carrying his team into 1st place without their #1D now ?

 

[Avs71]

In what world is Matthews ahead of MacKinnon? After his "slow" start, MacKinnon is 1 point back with 1 game less played than Matthews.

2 less games played.

 

[Pyrophorus]

And as I like to point out, the players are awful judges of this stuff.

Like the Price vote.

 

[CHRoNiCWiLL]

Funny how Leafs fans talk up Matthews but he's literally never been a finalist for an award other than the Calder. The highest he's ever placed was 10th for Hart.

Never won an individual award, his team has never made it out the first round. What exactly is he good at again?

Let's summarize:
Only people in Toronto can possibly place Matthews ahead of Mackinnon even though Matthews has 1 more point and 13 more goals because:
1. Matthews is NOT ahead in points.
2. Assists are valued the same as goals (especially secondary assists because they are hard to get). They also give out an award for most assists at the end of the nhl season.
3. Because Matthews is in Toronto, Toronto bias exists and must be placed a few spots down.

 

[Muffin]

You have to be kidding right ? "Why didn't Bergeron win the Selke until he finally won his 1st one ! ? If he was so good why didn't he win a Selke yet HUH?" This has to be the stupidest way to evaluate a player.

Magically giving him credit for dominating the hardest division in hockey and being elite at both ends ? You're ignoring everything he's done this year and are stuck 2 years in the past, watch this year.

"If we ignore his 2 best years, he's never been a ppg player !" just stop man.

That he's playing significantly better and carrying his team into 1st place without their #1D now ?

Imagine thinking Matthews is elite defensively lol. They literally said in the poll that his defense needs work.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

It can't be the fact that Matthews has more goals than either of them

Goals are not the only part of hockey. Otherwise Rantanen would destroy Marner in rankings.

 

[Muffin]

Let's summarize:
Only people in Toronto can possibly place Matthews ahead of Mackinnon even though Matthews has 1 more point and 13 more goals because:
1. Matthews is NOT ahead in points.
2. Assists are valued the same as goals (especially secondary assists because they are hard to get). They also give out an award for most assists at the end of the nhl season.
3. Because Matthews is in Toronto, Toronto bias exists and must be placed a few spots down.

Games played? You really going to make the argument Matthews is better because he has 1 more point in 2 more games played

 

[Empoleon8771]

You have to be kidding right ? "Why didn't Bergeron win the Selke until he finally won his 1st one ! ? If he was so good why didn't he win a Selke yet HUH?" This has to be the stupidest way to evaluate a player.

No, it's judging players based on how good they are defensively based on the award given out to the best players defensively. You're just being asinine with giving him credit for something he has literally never accomplished and doesn't have an argument for beyond "because I say so".

By the time Bergeron started to come into the conversation for the best defensive player in hockey, he was already a finalist for the Selke or pushing for finalist finishes. Bergeron wasn't one of the best defensive players before he was in contention for those Selke finishes.

Magically giving him credit for dominating the hardest division in hockey and being elite at both ends ? You're ignoring everything he's done this year and are stuck 2 years in the past, watch this year.

"If we ignore his 2 best years, he's never been a ppg player !" just stop man.

It's almost like judging a player based on a 30 game sample size is dumb because unusual things can happen in small sample sizes.

That he's playing significantly better and carrying his team into 1st place without their #1D now ?

Oh wow, Crosby's doing the same exact thing with the Penguins right now. But I'm not grasping for straws to defend my asinine placement for him and using that as justification.

 

[North Cole]

You have to be kidding right ? "Why didn't Bergeron win the Selke until he finally won his 1st one ! ? If he was so good why didn't he win a Selke yet HUH?" This has to be the stupidest way to evaluate a player.

Magically giving him credit for dominating the hardest division in hockey and being elite at both ends ? You're ignoring everything he's done this year and are stuck 2 years in the past, watch this year.

"If we ignore his 2 best years, he's never been a ppg player !" just stop man.

That he's playing significantly better and carrying his team into 1st place without their #1D now ?

Not sure we can just pretend that Chris Driedger and Huberdeau don't exist either. I'm sure there's a middle ground somewhere between him being a bum and carrying the whole team.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Not sure we can just pretend that Chris Driedger and Huberdeau don't exist here either. I'm sure there's a middle ground somewhere between him being a bum and carrying the whole team.

I don't think anyone is even calling him a bum, I'm just saying he doesn't have the hardware to be called the "best 2-way center in hockey".

If he was the best 2-way center in hockey, he wouldn't be losing to Couturier, ROR and Kopitar for the Selke, all of which he has done in the last 3 years.

 

[Neil Racki]

Backstrom should be in the no. 9 -12 imo.

Currently 9th in pts for Cs, always plays good 2 way D, wish he was stronger on faceoffs.

 

[Peasy]

2 less games played.

 

[SnizzMitch]

Funny how Leafs fans talk up Matthews but he's literally never been a finalist for an award other than the Calder. The highest he's ever placed was 10th for Hart.

Never won an individual award, his team has never made it out the first round. What exactly is he good at again?

Better make the most of that chirp before the end of the year lmao

 

[North Cole]

I don't think anyone is even calling him a bum, I'm just saying he doesn't have the hardware to be called the "best 2-way center in hockey".

If he was the best 2-way center in hockey, he wouldn't be losing to Couturier, ROR and Kopitar for the Selke, all of which he has done in the last 3 years.

I understand where your coming from and that you don't think he's a bum. His posts were just over the top sensationalism IMO, which is why I included the hyperbole. Hes not a bum, nor is he "carrying the team".

Having an 11-4 goalie with a 2GAA and 0.930 sv is a pretty big asset.

 

[Chaos2k7]

No, it's judging players based on how good they are defensively based on the award given out to the best players defensively. You're just being asinine with giving him credit for something he has literally never accomplished and doesn't have an argument for beyond "because I say so".

By the time Bergeron started to come into the conversation for the best defensive player in hockey, he was already a finalist for the Selke or pushing for finalist finishes. Bergeron wasn't one of the best defensive players before he was in contention for those Selke finishes.



It's almost like judging a player based on a 30 game sample size is dumb because unusual things can happen in small sample sizes.



Oh wow, Crosby's doing the same exact thing with the Penguins right now. But I'm not grasping for straws to defend my asinine placement for him and using that as justification.

Ill just leave this here. Barkov has been getting nominated for the Selke for years now.

Team success or lack thereof does play into the award winners.

Actually watch the Panthers and focus on Barkov. Not sure who should be placed where. But he is a very special talent at both ends.

Ill see myself out now.