Toggle sidebar

ESPN Article: Top 10 Centers in the NHL, as Ranked by Players and Team Officials

bobholly39

Registered User
Mar 10, 2013
22,340
15,061
Really solid list overall.

Malkin should get more love, but never does. He's having a really bad season, but was great last season, and this was done at start of season.

I'd also have had Crosby above Matthews, but I suppose I could see the reasoning for liking Matthews.

I think Drai doesn't get enough respect, that's my one big nitpick. He should be in contention for #2. I also probably wouldn't have had Barzal at #10, and instead have another player there - but again, it's not a huge thing.
 
Empoleon8771

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
81,472
79,635
Redmond, WA
Chaos2k7 said:
Ill just leave this here. Barkov has been getting nominated for the Selke for years now.

Team success or lack thereof does play into the award winners.

Actually watch the Panthers and focus on Barkov. Not sure who should be placed where. But he is a very special talent at both ends.

Ill see myself out now.
Click to expand...

His highest finish was 4th and he has 1 other 5th place finish. That doesn't sound like "getting nominated for the Selke" to me, at least at the level I'd deem "best 2-way center in hockey".

Saying "just watch him" is a lazy argument. I'm not arguing that Barkov is a bad 2-way player, I'm arguing he doesn't have a case for being the best 2-way player in hockey. I'm saying he doesn't have the resume to be put over Bergeron (or even Couturier if we want to go further) as the best 2-way center in hockey.
 
Peasy

Peasy

Registered User
May 25, 2012
16,972
14,711
Star Shoppin
Its a shame that so many people allow their distaste for a specific team tarnish their view of an exceptional talent.

Get used to Matthews being near the top of goals for the next decade+.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mitchy and Rob Brown

WetcoastOrca

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Jun 3, 2011
38,539
22,729
Vancouver, BC
I think it’s a pretty good list tbh. You can quibble about numbers 3-5 but it’s hard not to put Matthews at number 3 with the season he’s having. That said, I think there’s a bit of a gap between the top 2 and then 3-5 are really close.
 
Midnight Judges

Midnight Judges

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Feb 10, 2010
13,631
10,264
WillyNy said:
Crosby is ahead of Draisaitl, Matthews, and MacKinnon. People seem to forget defense is a part of the game
Click to expand...

62% offensive zone starts. Doesn't PK. Doesn't shut anyone down. Has a career 5v5 GA/60 nearly identical to Ovechkin's.

The Canadian media started selling people on Crosby's alleged defense right when his offense fell off. It's mostly nonsense.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Leaftors, Nihiliste and Neil Racki
Gurglesons

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
92,208
74,467
San Diego, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
Empoleon8771 said:
Tbh I still haven't seen a convincing argument for Matthews over Crosby yet. I don't think it's "wrong", but I just don't think Matthews has had that continuous level of being better than Crosby to warrant being rated higher than Crosby. I'd probably call it "premature" more than "wrong".

I don't think Matthews has shown a sustained level above Crosby that would make me rate him over Crosby like MacKinnon and Draisaitl have.
Click to expand...

At the start of the season I think it makes sense to take Matthews over Sid.
 
AvroArrow

AvroArrow

Fire Keefe
Jun 10, 2011
18,257
18,706
Toronto
Empoleon8771 said:
No, it's judging players based on how good they are defensively based on the award given out to the best players defensively. You're just being asinine with giving him credit for something he has literally never accomplished and doesn't have an argument for beyond "because I say so".

By the time Bergeron started to come into the conversation for the best defensive player in hockey, he was already a finalist for the Selke or pushing for finalist finishes. Bergeron wasn't one of the best defensive players before he was in contention for those Selke finishes.



It's almost like judging a player based on a 30 game sample size is dumb because unusual things can happen in small sample sizes.



Oh wow, Crosby's doing the same exact thing with the Penguins right now. But I'm not grasping for straws to defend my asinine placement for him and using that as justification.
Click to expand...

So you're judging how good a player is this year based on previous year stats only and ignoring everything that's happening this year and the mind blowing idea of a young player actually improving and becoming a better player lol /discussion.

With your logic there are no new cup contenders, only teams that made the SCF the previous year, no one can emerge as a contender for any award without first being a runner up. Terrible take.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cats2TheCup
TheFinalWord

TheFinalWord

Registered User
Apr 25, 2005
2,185
809
Jamason said:
Considering that Marner and Hyman aren't centers, and Tavares doesn't belong in the top fifty....
Click to expand...

The first half of your post is correct (why even respond to a list that includes wingers), but to say Tavares isn't in the top 50 is just as bad a take. He's definitely not top 10, but once you're getting around 15 to 20, then he's definitely in the discussion.

People also need to remember that this list was at the start of the year. So you're not looking at where they are now. A lot has changed for some players since the start of the season (Eichel especially).

I would have McDavid, MacK, Drai, Matthews and Crosby...but that's just me.
 
Chaos2k7

Chaos2k7

Believe!
Aug 10, 2003
10,334
7,246
Costa Rica
Empoleon8771 said:
His highest finish was 4th and he has 1 other 5th place finish. That doesn't sound like "getting nominated for the Selke" to me, at least at the level I'd deem "best 2-way center in hockey".

Saying "just watch him" is a lazy argument. I'm not arguing that Barkov is a bad 2-way player, I'm arguing he doesn't have a case for being the best 2-way player in hockey. I'm saying he doesn't have the resume to be put over Bergeron (or even Couturier if we want to go further) as the best 2-way center in hockey.
Click to expand...

There is no better offensive player in the league that plays better defense than Barky. If you need some Selke trophies before you can accept it. Thats on you. Watch him every night and you cannot deny that fact.

He is the best of both worlds. THE MOST COMPLETE player in the NHL.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Laus723, Cats2TheCup, Daishi and 2 others
Empoleon8771

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
81,472
79,635
Redmond, WA
AvroArrow said:
So you're judging how good a player is this year based on previous year stats only and ignoring everything that's happening this year and the mind blowing idea of a young player actually improving and becoming a better player lol /discussion.

With your logic there are no new cup contenders, only teams that made the SCF the previous year, no one can emerge as a contender for any award without first being a runner up. Terrible take.
Click to expand...

If you are going to make a claim like "he's the best 2-way center in hockey", then yes, I am going to look back at past year stats to evaluate that. Judging players based solely on 30 game sample sizes is downright asinine.

There's a massive difference between saying "Barkov is playing like the best 2-way center in hockey this year" (which may or may not be true) and "Barkov is the best 2-way center in hockey". It's the same difference as saying "the Panthers are playing like the best team in hockey this year" and "the Panthers are the best team in hockey".

Chaos2k7 said:
There is no better offensive player in the league that plays better defense than Barky. If you need some Selke trophies before you can accept it. Thats on you. Watch him every night and you cannot deny that fact.
Click to expand...

"Just watch him bro" isn't a rebuttal against what the actual results say.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WetcoastOrca
AvroArrow

AvroArrow

Fire Keefe
Jun 10, 2011
18,257
18,706
Toronto
Empoleon8771 said:
If you are going to make a claim like "he's the best 2-way center in hockey", then yes, I am going to look back at past year stats to evaluate that. Judging players based solely on 30 game sample sizes is downright asinine.

There's a massive difference between saying "Barkov is playing like the best 2-way center in hockey this year" (which may or may not be true) and "Barkov is the best 2-way center in hockey". It's the same difference as saying "the Panthers are playing like the best team in hockey this year" and "the Panthers are the best team in hockey".



"Just watch him bro" isn't a rebuttal against what the actual results say.
Click to expand...

Barkov was not the best 2 way C in hockey last year, Barkov is the best 2 way C in hockey this year. It's not that difficult.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cats2TheCup, Miami Panther, Daishi and 1 other person
The90

The90

Registered User
Feb 27, 2017
6,106
4,860
Empoleon8771 said:
Tbh I still haven't seen a convincing argument for Matthews over Crosby yet. I don't think it's "wrong", but I just don't think Matthews has had that continuous level of being better than Crosby to warrant being rated higher than Crosby. I'd probably call it "premature" more than "wrong".

I don't think Matthews has shown a sustained level above Crosby that would make me rate him over Crosby like MacKinnon and Draisaitl have.
Click to expand...
I think for a lot of people they just need to see him carry his team through a playoff round or two before he’s accepted in the next tier. Mackinnon has done that. And I think it’s a fair argument really. When the chips are down can he elevate his game? Aside from 1 playoff series where he had 2 points in 7 games against Boston, he’s been very good in the playoffs. But he needs to will his team to a win on his own for others to accept it.
 
Peasy

Peasy

Registered User
May 25, 2012
16,972
14,711
Star Shoppin
Rhaegar Targaryen said:
The argument from Leaf fans here in this thread is that Matthews > MacKinnon. We'll put it to the poll and have a real discussion and see who's better
Click to expand...
Yes, you will totally get 100% unbiased answers and that will settle it.

I can already tell you Mackinnon will win that poll by a landslide. But you're a troll first and foremost, you already know this.

Its funny that people on HF always believe and preach that the difference between these two is so large, yet ask major media outlets or actual hockey people and it will be a toss up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rob Brown

Rhaegar Targaryen

Registered User
Jun 25, 2016
6,375
4,203
TheFinalWord said:
The first half of your post is correct (why even respond to a list that includes wingers), but to say Tavares isn't in the top 50 is just as bad a take. He's definitely not top 10, but once you're getting around 15 to 20, then he's definitely in the discussion.
Click to expand...

Ehh, not anymore. This is a player who has only two more even strength goals than Vesey, Mikheyev, and Kerfoot. I don't think he's top 15-20 anymore, maybe around 30.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Ad

Latest posts

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

Top Bottom