Confirmed with Link: [EDM/PHX] Tobias Rieder for Kale Kessy

[Bryanbryoil]

Ewanyk doesn't score enough. A 4C doesn't need to light the lamp but he needs to score once in a while, right? Otherwise he has to shut out the other team all the time, which isn't realistic.

I've seen Moroz play about 5 or so times, so not a ton...but I'm struck by how little hockey sense he has every time. He just looks confused, though physically superior. That physical superiority will reduce significantly in pro. I think he'll end up being another Colin MacDonald/Brad Winchester type who figures it out in his mid-20s long enough to have a cup of coffee in the NHL but not much else.

Khaira I'm mixed on.

Kessy isn't a wild card. He's getting butchered in a 4th line role at the AHL level. For perspective, even the god awful Luke Gazdic held his own and more in a 4th line AHL role every year he's been there. Kessy is garbage as far as I'm concerned. Tambo pissed away a decent prospect for a bag of compost.

If your 4C can hit, fight, be an agitator, pot a couple of goals, play solid defensively and PK solidly that is fine by me. Colin Fraser was the 4C on the Kings Cup winning team and most people (myself included) had no time for him as an Oiler. Ewanyk is bigger, tougher and a harder hitting version of Fraser.

Moroz is a big guy that plays big, he also knows that the crease area is his bread and butter, I'd be surprised if he isn't in the NHL by the end of his ELC.

 

[Lewy]

If your 4C can hit, fight, be an agitator, pot a couple of goals, play solid defensively and PK solidly that is fine by me. Colin Fraser was the 4C on the Kings Cup winning team and most people (myself included) had no time for him as an Oiler. Ewanyk is bigger, tougher and a harder hitting version of Fraser.

Moroz is a big guy that plays big, he also knows that the crease area is his bread and butter, I'd be surprised if he isn't in the NHL by the end of his ELC.

Is moroz a good enough skater though? That's my main concern with him.

 

[Oiltankjob Fail]

Is moroz a good enough skater though? That's my main concern with him.

There are far slower players already in NHL he is average NHL speed as a skater , not a problem that would hold him back.

 

[Horseradish]

If your 4C can hit, fight, be an agitator, pot a couple of goals, play solid defensively and PK solidly that is fine by me. Colin Fraser was the 4C on the Kings Cup winning team and most people (myself included) had no time for him as an Oiler. Ewanyk is bigger, tougher and a harder hitting version of Fraser.

Moroz is a big guy that plays big, he also knows that the crease area is his bread and butter, I'd be surprised if he isn't in the NHL by the end of his ELC.

I'm of the opinion that if you can't play on the 3rd line, you can't play on the 4th (in the NHL, that is).

By that litmus test: Acton, Gazdic, Eager, SMac, Ryan Hamilton, and Joensuu (post-injury, that is) don't cut it as 4th liners.

By the same test, those who DO pass? Smyth, Jones, Pitlick, Arcobello.

Omark's in a bit of no-man's land. He should be a 2nd liner, but could be a 4th liner based on ability and possession numbers, but is too weak defensively for 3rd line duties (ie, lots of own zone starts).

If our 4th line was Smyth-Arcobello-Pitlick/Jones, I would be ecstatic. SO much better than anything Gazdic-related.

From everything I've seen and heard, Kessy looks like the former group, not the latter. Ewanyk might be a step above, but not much of one. He's been getting killed on the 4th line in OKC according to all credible media I've read/heard.

 

[Jumptheshark]

before people get their panties in a bunch--LET SEE THEM AT THE NHL LEVEL-- that is the end plan-- I truly do no care if a guy scored 1000000000pts in a game at the AHL--let see what he does at the nhl level-- that is the end game

 

[Horseradish]

before people get their panties in a bunch--LET SEE THEM AT THE NHL LEVEL-- that is the end plan-- I truly do no care if a guy scored 1000000000pts in a game at the AHL--let see what he does at the nhl level-- that is the end game

Sure. Except they have to get to the nhl. Hence the reason we have drafts and 372 scouts per team and central scouting and all that.

If none of that means anything, eliminate all but first and second rounds of the draft. As long as it does mean something the Bruins, Sharks and Hawks of the league will keep on a continuous rebuild of plug-and-play talent while teams like Edmonton, Florida, and NYI will keep languishing in the dark looking for that "fountain of youth". There's no secret to it-- you get the best scouts you can, you treat each pick like it's gold and don't piss away high picks for predictably less useful players like Moroz and Abney. You streamline the system to exploit bad or impatient GMs to procure young talent on the one hand, while you come up with an equation to eliminate inefficiencies in drafting. (Like every time a scout says "clutch" or "grit" in his plus arrows of a player, you never rely on that scout for useful info again, and you knock that player down a peg from what his ranking was). Prendergast found a lot of useful later round talent and I thought MacGregor was an upgrade early on. But I'm not sure anymore. Very very few players have made it from his draft classes and virtually zero outliers have-- those are bad arrows.

 

[Doomsday Device]

If your 4C can hit, fight, be an agitator, pot a couple of goals, play solid defensively and PK solidly that is fine by me. Colin Fraser was the 4C on the Kings Cup winning team and most people (myself included) had no time for him as an Oiler. Ewanyk is bigger, tougher and a harder hitting version of Fraser.

And Fraser, as offensively limited as he is in the NHL, scored quite a bit more than Ewanyk in the WHL and AHL so far. You need to have some offensive production at lower levels if you want to sniff the NHL, otherwise you're just Will Acton. And Ewanyk's dad isn't an NHL assistant coach as far as I know.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Is moroz a good enough skater though? That's my main concern with him.

He's a far better skater than Khaira who many are high on. Skating is not a concern for Moroz IMO. Could he get better? Sure, but so could everyone.

And Fraser, as offensively limited as he is in the NHL, scored quite a bit more than Ewanyk in the WHL and AHL so far. You need to have some offensive production at lower levels if you want to sniff the NHL, otherwise you're just Will Acton. And Ewanyk's dad isn't an NHL assistant coach as far as I know.

Speaking of Acton, funny that you mention him.

Will Acton 22gp. 2-1-3 Ev 14pim. 12sog.

Colin Fraser 12gp. 0-1-1 -2 12pim. 10sog.

So why is Acton outscoring Fraser 3 to 1 in less than double the games since Acton is a scrub and Fraser is such a solid 4th liner?

If Ewanyk is a more physical and slightly more skilled Acton there's not a damn thing wrong with that.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I'm of the opinion that if you can't play on the 3rd line, you can't play on the 4th (in the NHL, that is).

By that litmus test: Acton, Gazdic, Eager, SMac, Ryan Hamilton, and Joensuu (post-injury, that is) don't cut it as 4th liners.

By the same test, those who DO pass? Smyth, Jones, Pitlick, Arcobello.

Omark's in a bit of no-man's land. He should be a 2nd liner, but could be a 4th liner based on ability and possession numbers, but is too weak defensively for 3rd line duties (ie, lots of own zone starts).

If our 4th line was Smyth-Arcobello-Pitlick/Jones, I would be ecstatic. SO much better than anything Gazdic-related.

From everything I've seen and heard, Kessy looks like the former group, not the latter. Ewanyk might be a step above, but not much of one. He's been getting killed on the 4th line in OKC according to all credible media I've read/heard.

Well for one thing we are in a cap world so unless you have guys that are NHL 3rd line caliber on ELC deals or you have no high end skill to eat up a good chunk of the cap then you are in trouble. That said I am of the opinion that I'd like my 3rd and especially my 4th line to be able to bang bodies and kick some ass. The guys that you've mentioned as being in your good books don't do that. IMO Moroz could become a guy that the both of us like although you don't see it that way. Kessy IMO is a 4th line banger/disturber that can also pot a few, ie. a better Mike Brown except he will also have some borderline or even dirty hits.

As for Ewanyk, he's a -4 in 22 games, that's hardly atrocious. Keep in mind that these are kids stepping into the second best pro league in NA and playing a pretty tough role. From what I have heard E****y has been physical and playing decently relative to his role. Nothing at all wrong with that IMO.

 

[Doomsday Device]

He's a far better skater than Khaira who many are high on. Skating is not a concern for Moroz IMO. Could he get better? Sure, but so could everyone.



Speaking of Acton, funny that you mention him.

Will Acton 22gp. 2-1-3 Ev 14pim. 12sog.

Colin Fraser 12gp. 0-1-1 -2 12pim. 10sog.

So why is Acton outscoring Fraser 3 to 1 in less than double the games since Acton is a scrub and Fraser is such a solid 4th liner?

If Ewanyk is a more physical and slightly more skilled Acton there's not a damn thing wrong with that.

You were extolling the virtues of Colin Fraser, not me. And 3 points and 1 point are both poor totals and all they tell me is that Acton is just as bad offensively as Fraser, and that's pretty bad. But if you think Will Acton is an acceptable NHL player and a good sign for Ewanyk's future, than I guess we're way too far apart to find common ground. And additionally Ewanyk hasn't produced enough to even say he's as skilled as Acton.

 

[Fourier]

Sure. Except they have to get to the nhl. Hence the reason we have drafts and 372 scouts per team and central scouting and all that.

If none of that means anything, eliminate all but first and second rounds of the draft. As long as it does mean something the Bruins, Sharks and Hawks of the league will keep on a continuous rebuild of plug-and-play talent while teams like Edmonton, Florida, and NYI will keep languishing in the dark looking for that "fountain of youth". There's no secret to it-- you get the best scouts you can, you treat each pick like it's gold and don't piss away high picks for predictably less useful players like Moroz and Abney. You streamline the system to exploit bad or impatient GMs to procure young talent on the one hand, while you come up with an equation to eliminate inefficiencies in drafting. (Like every time a scout says "clutch" or "grit" in his plus arrows of a player, you never rely on that scout for useful info again, and you knock that player down a peg from what his ranking was). Prendergast found a lot of useful later round talent and I thought MacGregor was an upgrade early on. But I'm not sure anymore. Very very few players have made it from his draft classes and virtually zero outliers have-- those are bad arrows.

Here is the problem I have with your claim...If you go back to the 2008 draft which is the first that MacGregor ran how have the three teams you mention actually done with respect to guys playing in the NHL for their team?

Boston...Here are their drafted guys who have played for them in the NHL.

Dougie Hamilton (#9 in 2011) D 67gp 23pts
Tyler Seguin (#2 in 2010) F 203gp 121pts (NO longer a Bruin)
Jordan Caron (#25 in 2009)F 99gp 26 pts
Lane MacDermid (#112 in 2009)F 5gp 0pts (No longer a Bruin)
Maxime Sauve (#47 in 2008) F 1gp 0pts
Jamie Arniel (#97 in 2008) F 1 gp 0 pts


San Jose...Here are their drafted guys who have played for them in the NHL.

Tomas Hertl (#17 in 2012) F 26gp 21 pts
Mathtew Nieto (#47 in 2011) F 19gp 6pts
Freddie Hamilton (#129 in 2010) F 4gp 0pts
Tommy Wingels (#177 in 2008) F 106gp 39pts
Jason Demers (#186 in 2008) D 229gp 71 pts

Chicago...Here are their drafted guys who have played for them in the NHL.

Brandon Saad (#43 in 2011) F 76gp 45pts
Andrew Shaw (#139 in 2011) F 113gp 54pts
Joakim Nordstrom (#90 in 2010)F 8gp 1pt
Dylan Olsen (#28 in 2009) D 31gp 2pts
Brandon Pirri (#59 in 2009) F 30gp 13pts
Markus Kruger (#149 in 2009) F 153gp 60pts
Shawn Lalonde (#68 in 2008) D 1gp 0pts (No longer with the team)
Ben Smith (#169 in 2008) D 47go 13 pts

Edmonton...

Nail Yakupov (#1 in 2012) F 73gp 40 pts
Ryan Nugent Hopkins (#1 in 2011) F 127gp 97pts
Taylor Hall (#1 in 2010) F 191gp 164pts
Tyler Pitlick (#31 in 2010) F 3gp 1pts
Magnus Paajarvi (#10 in 2009) 163gp 58pts
Anton Lander (#40 in 2009) F 68gp 7 pts
Jordan Eberle (#22 in 2008) F 222gp 179pts
Johan Motin (#103 in 2008) D 1gp 0 pts
Philippe Cornet (#133 in 2008) F 2gp 1pts
Teemu Hartikainen (#163 in 2008) 52gp 13 points

Please tell me how the Bruins, Sharks and Hawks have done so much better than the Oilers is making their team better. And yes I know it is easy to draft #1, but where is the equivalent of Jordan Eberle at #22. So far only Hertl has looked like he might be as good.

 

[I am the Liquor]

Sure. Except they have to get to the nhl. Hence the reason we have drafts and 372 scouts per team and central scouting and all that.

If none of that means anything, eliminate all but first and second rounds of the draft. As long as it does mean something the Bruins, Sharks and Hawks of the league will keep on a continuous rebuild of plug-and-play talent while teams like Edmonton, Florida, and NYI will keep languishing in the dark looking for that "fountain of youth". There's no secret to it-- you get the best scouts you can, you treat each pick like it's gold and don't piss away high picks for predictably less useful players like Moroz and Abney. You streamline the system to exploit bad or impatient GMs to procure young talent on the one hand, while you come up with an equation to eliminate inefficiencies in drafting. (Like every time a scout says "clutch" or "grit" in his plus arrows of a player, you never rely on that scout for useful info again, and you knock that player down a peg from what his ranking was). Prendergast found a lot of useful later round talent and I thought MacGregor was an upgrade early on. But I'm not sure anymore. Very very few players have made it from his draft classes and virtually zero outliers have-- those are bad arrows.

Why do you have Abney and Moroz bunched together? Do you know anything? Or did your "media sources" tell you this? Save some bandwidth for the rest of us.

 

[Oiltankjob Fail]

Why do you have Abney and Moroz bunched together? Do you know anything? Or did your "media sources" tell you this? Save some bandwidth for the rest of us.

I think Moroz makes it to the NHL as a 3rd/4th line winger who chips in with some offence jmo.

 

[I am the Liquor]

The trends are so obvious with these bozos. Theyve been doing the same thing for years now.

-we have no puck moving dmen, better get some.

-we sure have a lot of dmen.

-we lack skill players, better get some.

-gee, the team sure has a lot of small skill guys, too many, we are waaaaaay too soft.

-now we are drafting, acquiring/trading for big guys with toughness/grit in their games.

In a few years we can look forward to a tough team with zero skill up front again.

The wheels on the bus go round and round.

 

[40oz]

Back to OKC for Kessy, only lasted 3 games in the East Coast.
http://okcbarons.com/index.cfm?fa=pressreleases&ra=showarticle&guid=ADF912DF-4EA4-4B1A-808B-1D7F000B831E

 

[Horseradish]

Here is the problem I have with your claim...If you go back to the 2008 draft which is the first that MacGregor ran how have the three teams you mention actually done with respect to guys playing in the NHL for their team?

Boston...Here are their drafted guys who have played for them in the NHL.

Dougie Hamilton (#9 in 2011) D 67gp 23pts
Tyler Seguin (#2 in 2010) F 203gp 121pts (NO longer a Bruin)
Jordan Caron (#25 in 2009)F 99gp 26 pts
Lane MacDermid (#112 in 2009)F 5gp 0pts (No longer a Bruin)
Maxime Sauve (#47 in 2008) F 1gp 0pts
Jamie Arniel (#97 in 2008) F 1 gp 0 pts


San Jose...Here are their drafted guys who have played for them in the NHL.

Tomas Hertl (#17 in 2012) F 26gp 21 pts
Mathtew Nieto (#47 in 2011) F 19gp 6pts
Freddie Hamilton (#129 in 2010) F 4gp 0pts
Tommy Wingels (#177 in 2008) F 106gp 39pts
Jason Demers (#186 in 2008) D 229gp 71 pts

Chicago...Here are their drafted guys who have played for them in the NHL.

Brandon Saad (#43 in 2011) F 76gp 45pts
Andrew Shaw (#139 in 2011) F 113gp 54pts
Joakim Nordstrom (#90 in 2010)F 8gp 1pt
Dylan Olsen (#28 in 2009) D 31gp 2pts
Brandon Pirri (#59 in 2009) F 30gp 13pts
Markus Kruger (#149 in 2009) F 153gp 60pts
Shawn Lalonde (#68 in 2008) D 1gp 0pts (No longer with the team)
Ben Smith (#169 in 2008) D 47go 13 pts

Edmonton...

Nail Yakupov (#1 in 2012) F 73gp 40 pts
Ryan Nugent Hopkins (#1 in 2011) F 127gp 97pts
Taylor Hall (#1 in 2010) F 191gp 164pts
Tyler Pitlick (#31 in 2010) F 3gp 1pts
Magnus Paajarvi (#10 in 2009) 163gp 58pts
Anton Lander (#40 in 2009) F 68gp 7 pts
Jordan Eberle (#22 in 2008) F 222gp 179pts
Johan Motin (#103 in 2008) D 1gp 0 pts
Philippe Cornet (#133 in 2008) F 2gp 1pts
Teemu Hartikainen (#163 in 2008) 52gp 13 points

Please tell me how the Bruins, Sharks and Hawks have done so much better than the Oilers is making their team better. And yes I know it is easy to draft #1, but where is the equivalent of Jordan Eberle at #22. So far only Hertl has looked like he might be as good.

Well, first off, most of these teams' picks in the first and second rounds are being dealt for here-and-now help, or they're late round picks.

Secondly, wow, a mid-late first rounder is your biggest success? Need I remind you that first rounders are SUPPOSED to be NHL players? Certainly Eberle was a steal, but it's not like they plucked him from Datsyuk-like obscurity.

These other teams are getting value out of late picks. And not just one or two, but several in each instance since MacGregor has come in.

And if you go back farther than just '08, I know you can't compare McGregor, but look at the value those teams have compiled outside of the first round since, say, 2003 (making it the past 10 years, and we'll set the benchmark at 100 GP. Fair?)-- compare that to the Oilers. I'm just saying it's something that has never been adequately addressed since the mid-80s:

SJ:
'03: Matt Carle-2nd; Pavelski-7th
'04: Torrey Mitchell-4th
'05: Derek Joslin-5th
'06: McGinn-2nd
'07: Bonino-6th, Justin Braun-7th

Bruins:
'03: Bergeron-2nd; Nate Thompson-6th (HM to Byron Bitz in the 4th round who's got 97 games under his belt)
'04: Versteeg-5th; Hunwick-7th
'05: Sobotka-4th
'06: Lucic-2nd; Marchand-3rd
--Drafting since then has been suspect though, I'll give you that

Hawks:
'03: Crawford-2nd; Lasse Kukkonen-5th; Byfuglien-8th; Chris Porter-9th
'04: Bolland-2nd; Bickell-2nd; Dowell-5th; Brouwer-7th
'05: Mike Blunden-2nd; Hjalmarsson-4th

Oilers:
'03: Jacques-2nd; Stortini-3rd; Brodziak-7th (hell of a pick); Troy Bodie-9th
'04: Liam Reddox-4th
'06: Petry-2nd; Peckham-3rd
--NOTHING outside of the first round since then...

So, to recap, the Oilers have drafted 2 impact players outside of the 1st round since 2003. SJ has drafted at least 8-- arguably more (or soon to be argued, perhaps). Boston has drafted 7. Chicago has drafted 10 (and arguably more...or soon to be argued).

The Oilers are leaving a LOT on the table when you look at it that way.

 

[Horseradish]

Why do you have Abney and Moroz bunched together? Do you know anything? Or did your "media sources" tell you this? Save some bandwidth for the rest of us.

I haven't seen Abney play, so maybe it's not fair.

But I've seen Moroz play several times, and the guy has the hockey IQ of a windshield wiper. He basically relies on his size-- and once he's in the pros, that advantage all but goes down the tube, and there's not much else in his game that is all that impressive.

Yeah, he's probably better than Abney, sure. But jeez, I look down the list of 2nd rounders I'd rather have now and then and it's a tremendous number (and that's not even considering that plenty of guys who maybe should've gone in the 2nd slid down, so this is only a partial list). He's passed a few that I would've preferred, but it's still a lot of talent that was passed up for the local kid who was big and didn't do much else (but is now capitalizing on the fact that he's way bigger than most WHLers): Finn, Di Giuseppe, Mitch Heard, McCabe, McGinn, Fournier, Frk, Sissons, Thrower, Tierney, and Severson.

I think it's a very safe bet to say, both then and now, that at least 5 players taken after Moroz in the 2nd round will play longer NHL careers than him. I'll eat my words if I'm wrong, but the start of the 2nd round is not the time to make a reach. There are big guys with skill like Moroz around in the 3rd and 4th rounds.

 

[McTedi]

The trends are so obvious with these bozos. Theyve been doing the same thing for years now.

-we have no puck moving dmen, better get some.

-we sure have a lot of dmen.

-we lack skill players, better get some.

-gee, the team sure has a lot of small skill guys, too many, we are waaaaaay too soft.

-now we are drafting, acquiring/trading for big guys with toughness/grit in their games.

In a few years we can look forward to a tough team with zero skill up front again.

The wheels on the bus go round and round.

I agree with this to a certain extent, the Oilers always seem to over indulge when it comes to areas of weakness from the previous years. But I don't think finding the right players is always such an easy task these days. However I do agree that the ridiculous cycle of need/want/have in players needs to end. Oilers mgmt. has struggled finding the right balance and do a poor job of targeting the right FA's (although Boyd Gordon is a perfect 3rd line centre) and then target the wrong players in the draft, excluding the 1st's. Moroz is a perfect example of this, a knee jerk reaction to fixing an NHL roster that has no size. I would hope the Oilers have a better plan in mind when they draft players and offer to FA's but I'm not so sure anymore.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

You were extolling the virtues of Colin Fraser, not me. And 3 points and 1 point are both poor totals and all they tell me is that Acton is just as bad offensively as Fraser, and that's pretty bad. But if you think Will Acton is an acceptable NHL player and a good sign for Ewanyk's future, than I guess we're way too far apart to find common ground. And additionally Ewanyk hasn't produced enough to even say he's as skilled as Acton.

At the same age Acton was in the NCAA putting up less than stellar numbers. Pretty hard to compare the two at this point other than style of play. If Ewanyk becomes a better skating, harder hitting, much better fighting version of Acton how is that a bad thing? My point about Fraser outscoring Acton at every level until this season is that sometimes numbers in the minors should get thrown out the window because players can bring other things to the table and they may still score at similar levels in spite of past success relative to other players.

 

[Fourier]

Well, first off, most of these teams' picks in the first and second rounds are being dealt for here-and-now help, or they're late round picks.

Secondly, wow, a mid-late first rounder is your biggest success? Need I remind you that first rounders are SUPPOSED to be NHL players? Certainly Eberle was a steal, but it's not like they plucked him from Datsyuk-like obscurity.

These other teams are getting value out of late picks. And not just one or two, but several in each instance since MacGregor has come in.

And if you go back farther than just '08, I know you can't compare McGregor, but look at the value those teams have compiled outside of the first round since, say, 2003 (making it the past 10 years, and we'll set the benchmark at 100 GP. Fair?)-- compare that to the Oilers. I'm just saying it's something that has never been adequately addressed since the mid-80s:

SJ:
'03: Matt Carle-2nd; Pavelski-7th
'04: Torrey Mitchell-4th
'05: Derek Joslin-5th
'06: McGinn-2nd
'07: Bonino-6th, Justin Braun-7th

Bruins:
'03: Bergeron-2nd; Nate Thompson-6th (HM to Byron Bitz in the 4th round who's got 97 games under his belt)
'04: Versteeg-5th; Hunwick-7th
'05: Sobotka-4th
'06: Lucic-2nd; Marchand-3rd
--Drafting since then has been suspect though, I'll give you that

Hawks:
'03: Crawford-2nd; Lasse Kukkonen-5th; Byfuglien-8th; Chris Porter-9th
'04: Bolland-2nd; Bickell-2nd; Dowell-5th; Brouwer-7th
'05: Mike Blunden-2nd; Hjalmarsson-4th

Oilers:
'03: Jacques-2nd; Stortini-3rd; Brodziak-7th (hell of a pick); Troy Bodie-9th
'04: Liam Reddox-4th
'06: Petry-2nd; Peckham-3rd
--NOTHING outside of the first round since then...

So, to recap, the Oilers have drafted 2 impact players outside of the 1st round since 2003. SJ has drafted at least 8-- arguably more (or soon to be argued, perhaps). Boston has drafted 7. Chicago has drafted 10 (and arguably more...or soon to be argued).

The Oilers are leaving a LOT on the table when you look at it that way.

Read what you claimed. You said basically criticized MacGregor for not coming up with any players in later rounds and suggested that the Bruins ,Hawks and Sharks were continuing to load up there teams with plug and play guys from the third round an beyond. The latter statement is simply not true. Moreover, even if you throw in 1st rounders none of these teams has really added much over the same period.

MacGregor took over in 2008. If you want to measure his performance vs the others you should look at the period in which he has been in the job.

I also do not agree with your basic premise of suggesting a scouting staff should be judged by guys they find in rounds 3-7. Even the second for that matter. It is absolutely the case that the most important pick a team makes is the first rounder. That is where the vast majority of a teams success comes from. So while MacGregr had a big advantage in picking high in most years his first round choices have generally been very good to excellent. That means a lot.

Since drafting 1st overall in 2007 over the period from 2008-2013 the Hawks first rounders have been:

2008 Kyle Beach 11th
2009 Dylan Olsen 28th
2010 Kevin Hayes 24th
2011 Mark MacNeill 18th
2012 Teuvo Teravainen 18th
2013 Ryan Hartman 30th

Beach probably never plays in the NHL. He is in Sweden right now. Olsen was promising but he cannot play a regular role in Florida. Hayes has had a decent but unspectacular career in the NCAA. Mark MacNeill, a guy I liked a lot, has struggled.

Instead of Beach why did they not pick Erik Karlsson or Jordan Eberle or Jake Gardiner or Del Zotto or Ennis or Carlson or Justin Schultz or Stepan.

Instead of Hayes why did they not pick Kuznetsov, or Coyle, or Nelson, or Justin Faulk or even some kid named Brendan Gallagher.

I mean if these guys are all so great at finding talent why screw up with a first rounder. Could it be that outside of the top end of the draft that there is an awful lot of luck involved and that even then development plays a big role?

For two years Barry Fraser was a genius for finding Messier, Anderson, Kurri and Moog later on in the draft. Then what happened? He had a few hits in later rounds with guys like Smith and Tikkanen but his first round picks were more often than not busts. While guys like Smith and Tikkanen were undeniably key contributors through the glory years the failure to draft decently in round one hurt the Oilers for many years.

All of this is not to say that one cannot be critical of the teams drafting. I think there is validity in Liquor's claim that at times they seem to lack a plan.

 

[Bure80]

http://theahl.com/rookie-rieder-off-to-a-strong-start-p188966

 

[tiger_80]

Here is the problem I have with your claim...If you go back to the 2008 draft which is the first that MacGregor ran how have the three teams you mention actually done with respect to guys playing in the NHL for their team?

Boston...Here are their drafted guys who have played for them in the NHL.

Dougie Hamilton (#9 in 2011) D 67gp 23pts
Tyler Seguin (#2 in 2010) F 203gp 121pts (NO longer a Bruin)
Jordan Caron (#25 in 2009)F 99gp 26 pts
Lane MacDermid (#112 in 2009)F 5gp 0pts (No longer a Bruin)
Maxime Sauve (#47 in 2008) F 1gp 0pts
Jamie Arniel (#97 in 2008) F 1 gp 0 pts


San Jose...Here are their drafted guys who have played for them in the NHL.

Tomas Hertl (#17 in 2012) F 26gp 21 pts
Mathtew Nieto (#47 in 2011) F 19gp 6pts
Freddie Hamilton (#129 in 2010) F 4gp 0pts
Tommy Wingels (#177 in 2008) F 106gp 39pts
Jason Demers (#186 in 2008) D 229gp 71 pts

Chicago...Here are their drafted guys who have played for them in the NHL.

Brandon Saad (#43 in 2011) F 76gp 45pts
Andrew Shaw (#139 in 2011) F 113gp 54pts
Joakim Nordstrom (#90 in 2010)F 8gp 1pt
Dylan Olsen (#28 in 2009) D 31gp 2pts
Brandon Pirri (#59 in 2009) F 30gp 13pts
Markus Kruger (#149 in 2009) F 153gp 60pts
Shawn Lalonde (#68 in 2008) D 1gp 0pts (No longer with the team)
Ben Smith (#169 in 2008) D 47go 13 pts

Edmonton...

Nail Yakupov (#1 in 2012) F 73gp 40 pts
Ryan Nugent Hopkins (#1 in 2011) F 127gp 97pts
Taylor Hall (#1 in 2010) F 191gp 164pts
Tyler Pitlick (#31 in 2010) F 3gp 1pts
Magnus Paajarvi (#10 in 2009) 163gp 58pts
Anton Lander (#40 in 2009) F 68gp 7 pts
Jordan Eberle (#22 in 2008) F 222gp 179pts
Johan Motin (#103 in 2008) D 1gp 0 pts
Philippe Cornet (#133 in 2008) F 2gp 1pts
Teemu Hartikainen (#163 in 2008) 52gp 13 points

Please tell me how the Bruins, Sharks and Hawks have done so much better than the Oilers is making their team better. And yes I know it is easy to draft #1, but where is the equivalent of Jordan Eberle at #22. So far only Hertl has looked like he might be as good.

Are you seriously going to include into this discussion 3 first overall picks? Come on now...Motin and Cornet would have never played in the NHL, if it was not for the run of injuries. Lander, Paajarvi, Pitlick quite possibly would not either, if they were affiliated with a different organization. Basically, the only solid pick that was not drafted 1st overall since 2008 and is now an established NHL player is Eberle.

 

[Master Lok]

Tobias Rieder plays on Arizona's first line and scores

Tobias Rieder plays on Arizona's first line and scores the GWG tonight.

He was an Oiler fourth round pick and was one of Tambellini's last trades. He had a good AHL season last year - played well two ways and scores. And we traded him for a goon. Kale Kessy.

Sigh. Screw you Tambellini. Screw you.

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2014/02/12/should-the-edmonton-oilers-regret-moving-tobias-rieder/

 

[Jumptheshark]

I am shocked we did not get this after his first goal

 

[oiler4ever]

we have bigger issues to be resolved than small fish like Rieder. meh