Confirmed with Link: [EDM/PHX] Tobias Rieder for Kale Kessy

[Lewy]

Oh look it's this topic again! Haven't seen it in awhile.

Is Tobias Reider an NHL superstar yet?

Nope, not yet.

 

[Lewy]

That's exactly why we need more of those guys. A small percentage of prospects makes the step up to the NHL, and we need some power forwards badly, so having a few extras in the system is good...one or two might turn into exactly what we need.

I wasn't trying to disagree, more trying to get your guys opinion on which of those 6 might have a shot at making it. Im gonna say Khaira, and Ewanyk are the two most likely.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

What can I help you with? Perhaps posting something other than smilies?

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I wasn't trying to disagree, more trying to get your guys opinion on which of those 6 might have a shot at making it. Im gonna say Khaira, and Ewanyk are the two most likely.

I personally think that Moroz has the speed and size to be an NHL player, he is also demonstrating the ability to put the puck in the net.

Khaira needs to work on his acceleration and top end speed.

Ewanyk just needs pro seasoning IMO and then he could be a solid 4th line center.

Kessy is a real wild card, IMO Moroz is passing him on the depth chart as we speak, but he's a rookie pro and brings a lot of what we lack.

Chase is a guy that brings a disturber type of a game and some goalscoring ability but IMO it's tough to say what he's capable of going forward.

Betker is a guy that I really liked at camp, very mobile for his size and better skill than his rookie stats showed. He's also a big kid that's still filling out and he's able and willing to crush guys with checks and stand up for teammates.

How many of them will make it? Who knows, but I'd still be trying to add more big bodies players that can skate, make and take passes, hit and fight.

 

[Senor Catface]

I think part of it, at least personally for me, is that for the last 5 or so years, there's been a constant theme of junior or college players doing really well in their respective leagues, and then just bombing as soon as they hit the AHL.

To see the one we traded do well in the AHL, unlike so many other prospects we have or have had, is part of the "oh poopy" feeling.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I think part of it, at least personally for me, is that for the last 5 or so years, there's been a constant theme of junior or college players doing really well in their respective leagues, and then just bombing as soon as they hit the AHL.

To see the one we traded do well in the AHL, unlike so many other prospects we have or have had, is part of the "oh poopy" feeling.

Fair enough when you look at it that way.Personally I look at our management not being able to get developed Kessy's so we have to resort to trading away for a guy like Kessy and hoping that he turns out.

 

[Senor Catface]

Fair enough when you look at it that way.Personally I look at our management not being able to get developed Kessy's so we have to resort to trading away for a guy like Kessy and hoping that he turns out.

I'm on board with needing the team toughness, so might as well have a few guys in the hopes that one or two make it. From my viewings of Moroz, I still hope it's him.

 

[Jumptheshark]

The sooner people realize this the sooner they should be far less critical of the trade. With all due respect to Rieder unless he's very strong for his size he's more of what we have an abundance of for the most part.

BBO

You suggest people on this board use logic and common sense? Let me know when that happens.

Both players were and still are long shots for the nhl

 

[Fourier]

I have heard several respected posters say this including Fourier I believe who I know for a fact watches a ton of Kitchener Rangers hockey. You could say the same thing in recent years for guys like Omark and more recently Rajala who took their skates and went home.

Just to be clear I said I had a strong feeling that he was not going to sign. This was based on a conversation that happened on the Ranger's broadcast the night of the trade. The broadcasters talked about contract talks not going well and how thrilled Rieder's agent seemed to be with the new situation. Rieder's people must have felt he would be in tough as a RW on the Oilers.

That trade happened on March 29th and by that time the Oilers had already locked up most of their more significant prospects. I have heard since then that the two sides were not seeing eye to eye on money as well. Rieder was a 4th rounder but with his post draft success, the local media here suggested he wanted to be paid more in line with higher picks.

Who knows what he would have done. I still think that there was a very good chance that he would not have signed. I also think that at the time the deal was made that it made sense for both sides and hope it works out for both.

One thing I will add though is that for those who think Reider is a one dimensional player, I suggest you rethink that. He is certainly not a bruiser, but he was terrific defensively in junior, and was one of the best pk'ers in the OHL.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Just to be clear I said I had a strong feeling that he was not going to sign. This was based on a conversation that happened on the Ranger's broadcast the night of the trade. The broadcasters talked about contract talks not going well and how thrilled Rieder's agent seemed to be with the new situation. Rieder's people must have felt he would be in tough as a RW on the Oilers.

That trade happened on March 29th and by that time the Oilers had already locked up most of their more significant prospects. I have heard since then that the two sides were not seeing eye to eye on money as well. Rieder was a 4th rounder but with his post draft success, the local media here suggested he wanted to be paid more in line with higher picks.

Who knows what he would have done. I still think that there was a very good chance that he would not have signed. I also think that at the time the deal was made that it made sense for both sides and hope it works out for both.

One thing I will add though is that for those who think Reider is a one dimensional player, I suggest you rethink that. He is certainly not a bruiser, but he was terrific defensively in junior, and was one of the best pk'ers in the OHL.

The contract he signed with with phoenix was the basic ELC-- AHL money 70k base nhl salery slightly above league min with 200k available in bonus money

 

[McDNicks17]

The contract he signed with with phoenix was the basic ELC-- AHL money 70k base nhl salery slightly above league min with 200k available in bonus money

Basic, yes, but in the higher end of what most 2nd round picks get on their ELCs.

His AAV is higher than Musil's, for example.

 

[Fourier]

The contract he signed with with phoenix was the basic ELC-- AHL money 70k base nhl salery slightly above league min with 200k available in bonus money

I am not sure how you get that his NHL salary is slightly above minimum. In year 1 his NHL salary is $792.5K. In year 2 it is $842K and in year 3 it is $925K.

No one would expect him to have made the team this year so his year 1 salary really does not matter much. By year three when he has a decent shot of competing for a spot his NHL salary would be the max he could have gotten ignoring performance bonuses. And his chances of earning much at all in bonuses would be slim given where he would likely be playing in Phoenix so really he did as well as he could possibly have hoped to.

His deal is actually very lucrative for a 4th rounder. It is a better deal than the one Gormely signed a year earlier and he was Phoenix's top prospect.

I will repeat though that I never said that Rieder's camp indicated directly to anyone that they would not sign. I did say that I personally felt it was a strong possibility given the silence before the deal and the comments made locally about his camp's reaction to the trade.

As a prospect Rieder is an excellent fit in Phoenix, and I am sure that his camp was thrilled with this aspect of the trade. He is a skilled player with a very goal scorers touch, something Phoenix really lacks in its system and on the big club. He skates very well and is very responsible defensively. I could easily see him fitting in with Tippet's system. In Phoenix that fact that he is not that big or physical is less of an issue since they already have that covered.

With the Oilers at the time of the deal he was more of what they already had. I don't think there is any question that in absolute terms the Oilers gave up the better player. But what they got was more along the lines of what they really needed. Like all deals of this type it is a gamble. BUt even being a big Rieder fan I could certainly see the reasoning behind the move and I do not have much issue with it,.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Just to be clear I said I had a strong feeling that he was not going to sign. This was based on a conversation that happened on the Ranger's broadcast the night of the trade. The broadcasters talked about contract talks not going well and how thrilled Rieder's agent seemed to be with the new situation. Rieder's people must have felt he would be in tough as a RW on the Oilers.

That trade happened on March 29th and by that time the Oilers had already locked up most of their more significant prospects. I have heard since then that the two sides were not seeing eye to eye on money as well. Rieder was a 4th rounder but with his post draft success, the local media here suggested he wanted to be paid more in line with higher picks.

Who knows what he would have done. I still think that there was a very good chance that he would not have signed. I also think that at the time the deal was made that it made sense for both sides and hope it works out for both.

One thing I will add though is that for those who think Reider is a one dimensional player, I suggest you rethink that. He is certainly not a bruiser, but he was terrific defensively in junior, and was one of the best pk'ers in the OHL.

Thanks for clarifying, what I take from that is that there was more than meets the eye with this trade. I still don't mind the trade at this point and think that Kessy will work his way back up to the AHL level before long. His success as a player isn't measured in goals and points like Rieder's is.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

And right on cue Kessy with his first goal at the ECHL level last night.

 

[RebuildTheRebuild]

And right on cue Kessy with his first goal at the ECHL level last night.

Why was it that he was sent down to the ECHL from the AHL? I understand he was on the 4th line in OKC but did he just play down right terrible?

 

[Fourier]

Why was it that he was sent down to the ECHL from the AHL? I understand he was on the 4th line in OKC but did he just play down right terrible?

SMac got sent down, Martindale and Hamilton came off the Ir. Nelson said that it was a developmental move. They have too many forwards in OKC and they wanted him to get more minutes an a more significant role.

 

[RebuildTheRebuild]

SMac got sent down, Martindale and Hamilton came off the Ir. Nelson said that it was a developmental move. They have too many forwards in OKC and they wanted him to get more minutes an a more significant role.

Oh that makes a lot more sense now. Thanks for the info. Why can't Nelson do this with our defence too instead of rotating them.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Oh that makes a lot more sense now. Thanks for the info. Why can't Nelson do this with our defence too instead of rotating them.

Good call, guys like Klefbom, Marincin, and Fedun should not be missing any games due to "depth" at the AHL level. Send Musil and Gernat down to Bakersfield and leave them down for 20-30 games already.

 

[Horseradish]

I personally think that Moroz has the speed and size to be an NHL player, he is also demonstrating the ability to put the puck in the net.

Khaira needs to work on his acceleration and top end speed.

Ewanyk just needs pro seasoning IMO and then he could be a solid 4th line center.

Kessy is a real wild card, IMO Moroz is passing him on the depth chart as we speak, but he's a rookie pro and brings a lot of what we lack.

Chase is a guy that brings a disturber type of a game and some goalscoring ability but IMO it's tough to say what he's capable of going forward.

Betker is a guy that I really liked at camp, very mobile for his size and better skill than his rookie stats showed. He's also a big kid that's still filling out and he's able and willing to crush guys with checks and stand up for teammates.

How many of them will make it? Who knows, but I'd still be trying to add more big bodies players that can skate, make and take passes, hit and fight.

Ewanyk doesn't score enough. A 4C doesn't need to light the lamp but he needs to score once in a while, right? Otherwise he has to shut out the other team all the time, which isn't realistic.

I've seen Moroz play about 5 or so times, so not a ton...but I'm struck by how little hockey sense he has every time. He just looks confused, though physically superior. That physical superiority will reduce significantly in pro. I think he'll end up being another Colin MacDonald/Brad Winchester type who figures it out in his mid-20s long enough to have a cup of coffee in the NHL but not much else.

Khaira I'm mixed on.

Kessy isn't a wild card. He's getting butchered in a 4th line role at the AHL level. For perspective, even the god awful Luke Gazdic held his own and more in a 4th line AHL role every year he's been there. Kessy is garbage as far as I'm concerned. Tambo pissed away a decent prospect for a bag of compost.

 

[Horseradish]

What I liked about Rieder is that he was apparently not only a scorer but was a top-line PKer and faced the opposition's best on most nights.

Those are the types of guys who become elite shutdown NHLers. Not saying he will, but I wouldn't bet against Rieder being a long-useful 3rd line winger-- a Dvorak/Pisani/Cogliano type, to put it into an Oilers frame of reference.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

What I liked about Rieder is that he was apparently not only a scorer but was a top-line PKer and faced the opposition's best on most nights.

Those are the types of guys who become elite shutdown NHLers. Not saying he will, but I wouldn't bet against Rieder being a long-useful 3rd line winger-- a Dvorak/Pisani/Cogliano type, to put it into an Oilers frame of reference.

lol or he won't make it and will play years and year in Europe

 

[Lewy]

Thanks for the update Fourier. Some of these heathens might not appreciate it, but I do.

 

[Horseradish]

lol or he won't make it and will play years and year in Europe

Yeah...so why draft anybody outside of the first round at all.

If you're gonna draft players, make it count. And trading a long-shot who could potentially play on any line in the NHL for another long-shot who could potentially play on the 4th line is essentially burning a card. It's bad asset management.

 

[Fourier]

Yeah...so why draft anybody outside of the first round at all.

If you're gonna draft players, make it count. And trading a long-shot who could potentially play on any line in the NHL for another long-shot who could potentially play on the 4th line is essentially burning a card. It's bad asset management.

Is it really bad management if the prospect you trade is far enough down on the depth chart though.

Regardless of his post draft year as a fourth rounder Rieder would have very little trade value unless he actually make it into the NHL and had some real success. With the Oiler's wingers thinking that he could be a top six player anytime soon is highly unrealistic. And while he was defensively solid given the current make-up of the top six having a guy his size on the third or fourth line means one more spot where you are probably going to get physically outmatched. Phoenix does somewhat short on skill. es not have that issue as they are a big team that.

I am a big Rieder fan, but one needs to temper the expectations based on his start in the AHL. He scored 5 goals in his first four games but has one in his last seven. Let's at least see how he does over his first year before making any significant judgements on how this will play out.

 

[Oilers Apologist]

Don't know about you guys but I think Moroz definitely has potential to be a 3rd liner in the league. He plays his role so well. Big body, gritty, very good shot. He can fight, hit, and score. Exactly what we need. Scouting staff may have actually made a decent 2nd round pick.