Dubas opinion based on his interviews and decisions.

[56 Years No Cup]

I more or less agree with where you're coming from. However, what about this alternative I posted on another thread:

Sign Willy to a 3yr - 5.5M bridge deal. This solves the cap crunch (for now) and holdout issue.

If Dubas can't renegotiate an acceptable long term deal after the bridge expires, then trade him for a top 2 or 3 D. You have to assume his value will only increase several years from now as opposed to trading him now.

Maybe this is easier said than done?

My original thought way back in Willie Nye #1 was a three year bridge at $5mm which I thought was fair for the Leafs and to give Willie a chance to prove himself so I agree with what you said above. I still think that's a great option but locking him up long term at a team friendly number is still better.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

Yeah something like this is what will have to happen. The hardest part is deciding on what the cutoff would be in a trade, I'm not even sure where to begin with that one. Unfortunately for Willie, I'd guess we're not willing to compromise too much on value as there is some benefit to us in holding a hard line here (sends a message to everyone in future negotiations and there will be plenty of those in the years to come).

I really hope this 8M figure being tossed around isn't true because if it is, we have a really crappy situation on our hands.

 

[Buds17]

Hopefully it won't come to that but if it does, Dubas will have a tough decision to make. If it's a choice between letting Nylander missing a year and trading him for 70c on the dollar, it may be better to let him sit. What about 90c on the dollar, them it may be better to take the deal. What about 80c? 83c? Deciding on what's an acceptable deal in that scenario is incredibly tough, I really hope it doesn't come down to that but if it does, I hope Dubas has the wisdom of Solomon.

Agreed. Sure it'd be best to have this situation resolved one way or another, prior to, or by, Dec. 1st, but that's still an artificial deadline. Unless things really go off track with the team (and that seems unlikely considering the timeframe), Dubas shouldn't feel pressure to make a deal - either with Nylander or another team - just for the sake of that.

 

[Clark4Ever]

I don't think anyone does. It's how you handle it moving forward, what would a good GM do at this point?

I agree with ACC, Dubas gets paid the big bucks to resolve these issues which I'm sure he is diligently working on -- it's business as they say, all about results and let see how Kyle does.

If for example Dubas is left no choice but to agree to terms on a bridge deal or to start entertaining trade offers, I hope that isn't seen as a failure on his part.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Agreed. Sure it'd be best to have this situation resolved one way or another, prior to, or by, Dec. 1st, but that's still an artificial deadline. Unless things really go off track with the team (and that seems unlikely considering the timeframe), Dubas shouldn't feel pressure to make a deal - either with Nylander or another team - just for the sake of that.

I think it may be the other way around - the better the team looks, the more pressure there may be to make a deal because having the Nylander asset contributing nothing this season could potentially cost us the cup.

 

[CelticDruid]

He has a lot of work to do before I will feel comfortable with him as our GM moving forward.[/QUOTE]

Are YOU going to fire him? lol

 

[Judas Tavares]

Dubas hasn't made a mistake yet imo, what was he suppose to say, we'll be able to sign 2 out of 3? Glad Lou was passed over, Dubas was a sponge and having Dubas work under Lou was a smart move, but the Leafs are now into a new era and I see nothing but possibilities under Dubas's leadership.

I said this earlier in the thread in regards to the signing talk.

I'll expand here. Many complained JFJ and Lou were boring and didn't say enough and gave nothing during interviews. Many, many complained about Burke being a blowhard and saying way too much. This thread has opened up the possibility that Dubas is saying too much.

Over the years I've learned that the not talking enough or saying too much argument likely falls under the "I need another argument against this guy." Because the variance on this topic is crazy. There doesn't seem to be a grey area or a Goldilocks "he says just enough" state of mind.

I've learned that if someone says a lot, not to get my hopes up 100% cause things change and not everything you want can and/or will happen. I've also learned that if someone isn't saying enough, well then I'm just going to be in for a surprise.

Overall, I let the GMs actions and decsions do the talking, not their talking.

 

[Duke Silver]

So if the choices are:

1 - sign him for too much money
2 - trade him for a poor return
3 - let him sit out the year

You would be happy with none of these options. Neither would I but I don't see how I can possibly blame Dubas if that's what the situation is.

That's my problem with you saying he needs to resolve it because it's his job and he makes the big bucks and so on, to me those are empty cliches which ignore that simple fact that sometimes there are no good solutions. If that's what ends up happening (and we're still a long way from that) then I trust Dubas to make the right decision. As far as holding him accountable, I do that every day no matter what. That doesn't mean I expect the guy to perform miracles though.

Dubas cannot win.

If he signs Willy for what he's asking for, he caved, he's too young/inexperienced and the Leafs are screwed.
If he doesn't cave, he's being indecisive, he's too young/inexperienced and the Leafs are screwed.
If he signs Willy to a bridge contract, he's not thinking long-term, he's too young/inexperienced and the Leafs are screwed.

 

[Carltons Cup]

Dubas cannot win.

If he signs Willy for what he's asking for, he caved, he's too young/inexperienced and the Leafs are screwed.
If he doesn't cave, he's being indecisive, he's too young/inexperienced and the Leafs are screwed.
If he signs Willy to a bridge contract, he's not thinking long-term, he's too young/inexperienced and the Leafs are screwed.

If he signs Willy to a bridge, he's not screwed. If he can't "re-up" Willy to a palatable long-term deal as the bridge expires, he trades WN and maximizes his return with pricks, players or prospects.

 

[Carltons Cup]

Dubas cannot win.

If he signs Willy for what he's asking for, he caved, he's too young/inexperienced and the Leafs are screwed.
If he doesn't cave, he's being indecisive, he's too young/inexperienced and the Leafs are screwed.
If he signs Willy to a bridge contract, he's not thinking long-term, he's too young/inexperienced and the Leafs are screwed.

Sorry, picks...not pricks! LOL. Damn autocorrect!

 

[ITM]

I think it may be the other way around - the better the team looks, the more pressure there may be to make a deal because having the Nylander asset contributing nothing this season could potentially cost us the cup.

Can't think like that with the defense we have. We took another step this season, but we're still in need of two to three pieces on the back end and likely another couple in the bottom six. Our window isn't short and continuing to be patient (Think Nashville and David Poile) in asset management is always the right way to build a perennial contender.

Now if only we could replicate their cap management.

 

[LeafFever]

Truth be told. Dubas is an idiot for his stupid comments. “We can and we will sign them all.”

Then “we are only looking at long term deals”.

Not a fan of him at all so far. To young and way to high of an opinion of himself.

Clearly a difference of opinions exists between coach and GM regarding Sparks.
And i hazard a guess about Marincin as well. I simply can not see Babs selecting Marincin to play for the leafs based on his play when given an opportunity.

Kyle Dubas maybe smart but he is sure looking like he is full of himself right now and Shanny needs to tell him to zip it when it comes to comments that are fixed with no flexibility as he has made this short time as our GM.

He has a lot of work to do before I will feel comfortable with him as our GM moving forward.

Yeah that Calder cup and John Tavares really sucks.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Can't think like that with the defense we have. We took another step this season, but we're still in need of two to three pieces on the back end and likely another couple in the bottom six. Our window isn't short and continuing to be patient (Think Nashville and David Poile) in asset management is always the right way to build a perennial contender.

Now if only we could replicate their cap management.

If you don't think we're a contender even with Nylander then that's fine, I disagree. And I strongly disagree with the notion that we're so far away we need two or three pieces here and another couple there. Honestly, the idea that we're like 5 pieces away to me is completely absurd.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Nylander being unsigned reflects a lot more poorly on Nylander's camp than on Dubas in my opinion. caving in to unrealistic demands for the sake of getting something done fast would be a mistake and I'd lose faith in him. Holding his ground is the smart option. he seems to be super professional and accommodating from what we've seen too. all we hear him say to the media is how he wants Nylander to be a Leaf and he sees him as a core part of the team. he's flown out to assure Nylander in person. What more can he really do? Nylander's camp is a lot more mixed. Yeah Nylander says he wants to be in Toronto, but there are also reports he wants an unreasonably high contract in order to discourage being traded. it's extremely hard to negotiate with someone who has that mindset

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

A bridge deal wouldn't be a loss for Dubas or Nylander. It'd a be a bitter compromise that doesn't leave anyone really happy. Nylander doesn't get as much money as a long term deal would give him but he gets to prove himself for a big pay raise in 2-3 years, though this gamble also comes with the risk that he may stagnate. Leafs don't have one of their core locked up long term but at least their cap is a bit more manageable in the short term, but they have to do this song and dance again sooner than anyone would like.

A loss to me would be:

1. Trading Nylander for a defender that's of a lesser pedigree and skill level than what Nylander brings. We wouldn't get close to the value Nylander is worth, and a valuable asset would be lost with little chance of recuperating his value.

2. Signing Nylander to his absurd demands. Anything between $7 million to $8.5 million is nonsense and basically screws the Leafs ability to build a contending team going forward. Nylander gets his money but he effectively makes himself a public enemy as everyone would blame him and his contract for keeping the Leafs from winning it all during this Matthews/Tavares/Babcock/Shanahan/Dubas era.

3. Nylander does the unthinkable and decides to not sign any deal with the Leafs and stays in Europe. The Leafs have nothing to show for Nylander and are stuck with a depreciating asset.

 

[ACC1224]

Dubas cannot win.

If he signs Willy for what he's asking for, he caved, he's too young/inexperienced and the Leafs are screwed.
If he doesn't cave, he's being indecisive, he's too young/inexperienced and the Leafs are screwed.
If he signs Willy to a bridge contract, he's not thinking long-term, he's too young/inexperienced and the Leafs are screwed.

Of course he can win.

One of the keys to successful leadership is making things happen in difficult times.
Anyone can manage when the going is easy.

 

[mikeyz]

He suppose to say we can’t and we won’t....oh wait

Lol what a dumb thread.

He's supposed to say nothing.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

A bridge deal wouldn't be a loss for Dubas or Nylander. It'd a be a bitter compromise that doesn't leave anyone really happy. Nylander doesn't get as much money as a long term deal would give him but he gets to prove himself for a big pay raise in 2-3 years, though this gamble also comes with the risk that he may stagnate. Leafs don't have one of their core locked up long term but at least their cap is a bit more manageable in the short term, but they have to do this song and dance again sooner than anyone would like.

A loss to me would be:

1. Trading Nylander for a defender that's of a lesser pedigree and skill level than what Nylander brings. We wouldn't get close to the value Nylander is worth, and a valuable asset would be lost with little chance of recuperating his value.

2. Signing Nylander to his absurd demands. Anything between $7 million to $8.5 million is nonsense and basically screws the Leafs ability to build a contending team going forward. Nylander gets his money but he effectively makes himself a public enemy as everyone would blame him and his contract for keeping the Leafs from winning it all during this Matthews/Tavares/Babcock/Shanahan/Dubas era.

3. Nylander does the unthinkable and decides to not sign any deal with the Leafs and stays in Europe. The Leafs have nothing to show for Nylander and are stuck with a depreciating asset.

If Nylander is signed to a bridge I dont really see him being a leaf in 3-4 years. He will certainly price himself out of Toronto. Bridge has to be the last option as it means your going to have to trade him most likely.

 

[Buds17]

I think it may be the other way around - the better the team looks, the more pressure there may be to make a deal because having the Nylander asset contributing nothing this season could potentially cost us the cup.

That's an interesting take. Part of that probably has to be what management thinks of the team's chances right now, because although December 1st is still a fair bit away, perhaps it's not so much that the mentality should change too drastically.

Some prognostications have the Leafs pegged for big things, and some teams last season made very impressive leaps forward. I'm not too sure the team can go straight from 1st round elimination to a Cup with a single "addition", but it's not at all unreasonable. Obviously the hope is to not be one (chance at it) and done, especially if that attempt is unsuccessful. The other side (hopefully just the trading partner if it comes to that, and not Nylander's agent if it's a re-signing) may not feel the same sense of urgency that the Leafs might.

 

[Gary Nylund]

That's an interesting take. Part of that probably has to be what management thinks of the team's chances right now, because although December 1st is still a fair bit away, perhaps it's not so much that the mentality should change too drastically.

Some prognostications have the Leafs pegged for big things, and some teams last season made very impressive leaps forward. I'm not too sure the team can go straight from 1st round elimination to a Cup with a single "addition", but it's not at all unreasonable. Obviously the hope is to not be one (chance at it) and done, especially if that attempt is unsuccessful. The other side (hopefully just the trading partner if it comes to that, and not Nylander's agent if it's a re-signing) may not feel the same sense of urgency that the Leafs might.

That's a key point IMO - we expect to be in the mix for many years to come which is more reason not to give an inch. We have to sign Matthews and Marner, Gardiner too assuming we can afford him and then later there's Rielly and whoever else etc., this is pretty much going to be an annual thing for the next decade so while Willie missing a season would hurt a ton, it may prove to be worth it in the long run.

I'm getting ahead of things though, realistically a deal will be agreed on. I'd say the odds of Willie missing a year are maybe 1%. The odds of him being traded instead are obviously higher but still quite low IMO.

 

[Judas Tavares]

Of course he can win.

One of the keys to successful leadership is making things happen in difficult times.
Anyone can manage when the going is easy.

But if making something happen means signing him for too much, was it worth making it happen?

I can't fully judge Dubas on this subject until there is an outcome. It takes two to tango and that doesn't change just because this saga is dragging on. If Dubas signs him to a great deal or trades him for a great return, I will give him good marks. If he signs him to a horrible deal or trades him for crap, I will give him poor marks. But I can't give him marks in a situation where there is yet to be an outcome and the outcome needs to be determined by two sides, not just one side because I am impatient and/or I have chosen to pick a side.

Yes he is 0/3 so far in signing the "big 3". Do we want him to forge signatures here? Do we want him just to give blank cheques to hurt our future but make it feel nice right now because we want a resolution right this second?

 

[ITM]

If you don't think we're a contender even with Nylander then that's fine, I disagree. And I strongly disagree with the notion that we're so far away we need two or three pieces here and another couple there. Honestly, the idea that we're like 5 pieces away to me is completely absurd.

Absurd you say? Well...Let's look at our defense and other teams defence. In the West, I'd say the following have a better and in some cases MUCH better defense than we do at present: Nashville ,St.Louis,Calgary ,San Jose,Winnipeg, Vegas. In the East: Tampa, Carolina, Washington, Boston and Buffalo.

Leaving our forwards aside for the moment, is that an absurd characterization to say that the teams mentioned above have better defense than we do? Excluding of course close in time champs like the Kings, Penguins and Hawks...Is that a completely wacky idea to you?

 

[ITM]

Nylander being unsigned reflects a lot more poorly on Nylander's camp than on Dubas in my opinion. caving in to unrealistic demands for the sake of getting something done fast would be a mistake and I'd lose faith in him. Holding his ground is the smart option. he seems to be super professional and accommodating from what we've seen too. all we hear him say to the media is how he wants Nylander to be a Leaf and he sees him as a core part of the team. he's flown out to assure Nylander in person. What more can he really do? Nylander's camp is a lot more mixed. Yeah Nylander says he wants to be in Toronto, but there are also reports he wants an unreasonably high contract in order to discourage being traded. it's extremely hard to negotiate with someone who has that mindset

Dubas going to Switzerland certainly helped any optics that entertained Nylander is being disrespected by the club.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Absurd you say? Well...Let's look at our defense and other teams defence. In the West, I'd say the following have a better and in some cases MUCH better defense than we do at present: Nashville ,St.Louis,Calgary ,San Jose,Winnipeg, Vegas. In the East: Tampa, Carolina, Washington, Boston and Buffalo.

Leaving our forwards aside for the moment, is that an absurd characterization to say that the teams mentioned above have better defense than we do? Excluding of course close in time champs like the Kings, Penguins and Hawks...Is that a completely wacky idea to you?

We don't have to have the best defence to win the cup. What is completely wacky to me is the idea that we are 5 players away. We were tied for 6th overall, we added Tavares and have a ton of young talent that is likely to be better still with another year of experience. We're right there with the best teams in the league, if we play to our potential and get good goaltending in the spring I like our chances against anyone.

5 players away = wacky.

 

[ITM]

We don't have to have the best defence to win the cup. What is completely wacky to me is the idea that we are 5 players away. We were tied for 6th overall, we added Tavares and have a ton of young talent that is likely to be better still with another year of experience. We're right there with the best teams in the league, if we play to our potential and get good goaltending in the spring I like our chances against anyone.

5 players away = wacky.

We were tied for 6th overall is your harbinger of imminent success? The Detroit Red Wings in the 90s set a franchise and I believe league record for regular season success and the following year traded Paul Coffey and Keith Primeau for Brendan Shanahan because it was clear the team needed pieces that would provide success in the post-season...where the Stanley Cup is actually won.

You agree I take it that the clubs named have a better defense than we do? But...even with that, couldn't see the need for 2-3 pieces that could or should be replaced if possible?

See, you take the next reasonable step and look at the forwards. With names like Josh Anderson out there, do you take him or do you resign to allow Freddie Gauthier to "play to his potential"? So let's say you agree that would be a reasonable step to help our club. You're now at 3-4 pieces...You don't think other pieces in the league could further augment the weaknesses we have in the post-season?