Dubas opinion based on his interviews and decisions.

[56 Years No Cup]

You have my full attention, dsred. Not to worry. And the back and forth here and there actually is relaxing for me. I appreciate the concern.

I'm asking for your honest opinion: If "we" are, (for the lack of a better term) "forced" to trade Nylander, what or who should we expect in return? Keep in mind I'm not saying we have to do it at all very soon.
We have several schools of thought here, mine are that it would take a guy like Pesce +.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

LOL. WTF is this post? If you're going to pretend to not understand, you could do so using a lot less words. And if you are going to use so many words you could brush up on your grammar first, sheesh.

And once again, LOL at us needing 5 more pieces.

 

[ITM]

LOL. WTF is this post? If you're going to pretend to not understand, you could do so using a lot less words. And if you are going to use so many words you could brush up on your grammar first, sheesh.

And once again, LOL at us needing 5 more pieces.

Mhm...Riiiight. If only it was a horse smiley icon laughing.

 

[FerrisRox]

Shanny not being involved in hockey decisions. My lord that is what he was hired to do.

He is the team president and alternate governor. Most clubs don't have the team president dabbling in personnel decisions. Their job is to hire the person who does that.

Surely you know that, right?

 

[killer1980]

Dubas is a poser that looks good in a suit and will do what he's told. He ain't calling the shots no matter what anyone wants to believe. He's down a few rungs on the depth chart.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I am merely pointing out that blaming only Babcock is wrong the roster needs changes. Dubas needs to share the blame for our roster as some of the decisions were directly on him. The Goat and Marincin as well as Sparks all are Dubas selections.

Dubas signed JT and I gave him credit for it so I seriously do not know wtf you are talking about.

There is far more I can say about Dubas but that is for another time. This is a thread about Babcock and Dubas has to share some of any blame based on his selections as well.

nothing is wrong with Gauthier this year though.

 

[Eb]

Dubas is a poser that looks good in a suit and will do what he's told. He ain't calling the shots no matter what anyone wants to believe. He's down a few rungs on the depth chart.

Source?

 

[Al14]

Dubas is a poser that looks good in a suit and will do what he's told. He ain't calling the shots no matter what anyone wants to believe. He's down a few rungs on the depth chart.

Oh right, he's a Shanahan puppet!

 

[Gallagbi]

Source?

Can confirm, he wears suits very well.

 

[killer1980]

Source?

Madam Cleo

 

[ITM]

I'm asking for your honest opinion: If "we" are, (for the lack of a better term) "forced" to trade Nylander, what or who should we expect in return? Keep in mind I'm not saying we have to do it at all very soon.
We have several schools of thought here, mine are that it would take a guy like Pesce +.

You mentioned timing. I think that's key. I'm in the camp that says Nylander is a top talent and that signing him to a "friendlier" deal is imperative. So ideally, we keep him and address our needs with other assets.

If we were forced into a position to move him, the RHD at a cost-effective cap over good term seems to be our highest priority. Brett Pesce's name has come up quite a bit, but from the limited amount of information I have with Canes' defensemen, Slavin seems to fit the exchange of value a little more accurately. I'd hate to see our side forced into settling for less than appropriate value. If it was Pesce, I don't know what the plus would be and if it could approximate value. Foegele and a 1st on top of Pesce? Or Wallmark, plus Foegele plus...Pesce? It's like we're dealing in absolutes (e.g. Nylander) and relative pieces (e.g. Pesce, etc...) and trying to come to a deal that sees our side giving too much. It's unnerving. I hope the situation resolves and we're not forced into moving Nylander , who we know can be instrumental, for pieces we hope will end up being instrumental.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

You mentioned timing. I think that's key. I'm in the camp that says Nylander is a top talent and that signing him to a "friendlier" deal is imperative. So ideally, we keep him and address our needs with other assets.

If we were forced into a position to move him, the RHD at a cost-effective cap over good term seems to be our highest priority. Brett Pesce's name has come up quite a bit, but from the limited amount of information I have with Canes' defensemen, Slavin seems to fit the exchange of value a little more accurately. I'd hate to see our side forced into settling for less than appropriate value. If it was Pesce, I don't know what the plus would be and if it could approximate value. Foegele and a 1st on top of Pesce? Or Wallmark, plus Foegele plus...Pesce? It's like we're dealing in absolutes (e.g. Nylander) and relative pieces (e.g. Pesce, etc...) and trying to come to a deal that sees our side giving too much. It's unnerving. I hope the situation resolves and we're not forced into moving Nylander , who we know can be instrumental, for pieces we hope will end up being instrumental.

Hopefully we find out soon at it appears that at Dubas and Gross are least talking. I would HATE to be in a situation where the Leafs would find it imperative to trade Willie under duress. Other GMs would be salivating.

 

[Muston Atthews]

You mentioned timing. I think that's key. I'm in the camp that says Nylander is a top talent and that signing him to a "friendlier" deal is imperative. So ideally, we keep him and address our needs with other assets.

If we were forced into a position to move him, the RHD at a cost-effective cap over good term seems to be our highest priority. Brett Pesce's name has come up quite a bit, but from the limited amount of information I have with Canes' defensemen, Slavin seems to fit the exchange of value a little more accurately. I'd hate to see our side forced into settling for less than appropriate value. If it was Pesce, I don't know what the plus would be and if it could approximate value. Foegele and a 1st on top of Pesce? Or Wallmark, plus Foegele plus...Pesce? It's like we're dealing in absolutes (e.g. Nylander) and relative pieces (e.g. Pesce, etc...) and trying to come to a deal that sees our side giving too much. It's unnerving. I hope the situation resolves and we're not forced into moving Nylander , who we know can be instrumental, for pieces we hope will end up being instrumental.

Pesce+Svechnikov for Nylander + works for me

 

[diceman934]

He is the team president and alternate governor. Most clubs don't have the team president dabbling in personnel decisions. Their job is to hire the person who does that.

Surely you know that, right?

Surely you know that Shanny has been involved in all hockey decisions since he took over his role here?

 

[Mr Hockey]

Surely you know that Shanny has been involved in all hockey decisions since he took over his role here?

100% agree

 

[FerrisRox]

Surely you know that Shanny has been involved in all hockey decisions since he took over his role here?

Are you feeling okay?

This conversation started with me saying Shanahan should get out of the way and let the person *he* hired to be the General Manager manage the team.

I know you read that post, because you responded to it.

Now you're asking me if I'm aware he's been involved in the hockey decisions? Of course I'm aware of that, that's the original comment that I made.

How are you not following this?

 

[diceman934]

Are you feeling okay?

This conversation started with me saying Shanahan should get out of the way and let the person *he* hired to be the General Manager manage the team.

I know you read that post, because you responded to it.

Now you're asking me if I'm aware he's been involved in the hockey decisions? Of course I'm aware of that, that's the original comment that I made.

How are you not following this?

I am following along very well. It seems you feel that you have been clear when you have been far from it.

 

[FerrisRox]

I'm asking for your honest opinion: If "we" are, (for the lack of a better term) "forced" to trade Nylander, what or who should we expect in return?

That's impossible to answer without truly knowing what his contract expectation is.

There is definitely a number where it would really start impact the expected return by shrinking the market of interested teams.

If the Maple Leafs decide to trade him they want as many interested parties as possible to drive up the price and have a larger pool of offers to choose from.

But Nylander's contractual demands will definitely affect the amount of teams interested in him. If he is expecting a $7 million deal I'm sure there would be ten or so teams interested in him at that price. At $7.5, that number starts to shrink a fair bit and at $8 million, you might be down to one or two teams that would be interested and they would not be paying a premium to acquire him.

I think the best case scenario, in terms of making the Leafs the best team they can be, would be to trade Nylander for a defensemen that could develop into a key part of this core going forward, but that only works if Nylander's contract demands are reasonable so they can acquire as good a blue liner as possible.

If he's looking at a contract in the sevens or eights, that's not going to happen.

 

[Cobra777]

In light of Shanahan's incredibly stupid public comments in regards to the Nylander contract situation he is the last guy that should tell anyone to zip it.

Shanahan should get out of the way and let the person he has hired to be the General Manager do the job. The last thing the organization needs is Shanahan meddling and being involved in hockey decisions.

Really? since the hire of Shanahan this franchise has turned around and headed in the most positive direction that it has in years

 

[Cobra777]

nothing is wrong with Gauthier this year though.

Totally agree I think Goat is playing solid in on the fore check and heavy on the puck and seems everywhere on the ice, I think his knee and confidence in it being healed after that horrendous injury is there, I lately have liked his play and obviously his size which is something we lack

 

[FerrisRox]

Really? since the hire of Shanahan this franchise has turned around and headed in the most positive direction that it has in years

There's not much evidence that that is because of Shanahan. I think any number of executives would have had the same success if they were given the key to the vault and allowed to take one step back in order take two steps forward.

Hiring Mike Babcock wasn't a masterstroke of hockey genius, pretty much anybody off the street could have told you that he was one of the upper echelon of coaches in the league nor was getting him to come to Toronto a great recruiting job by Shanahan, he just gave him an obscene amount of money.

Beyond that, the other big "success" of the rebuild was continuing to be lousy and accumulating draft picks. Again, it's not a big masterstroke of hockey genius to finally stop trading away draft picks so I have hard time giving a ton of credit to Brendan Shanahan for that, and if you do want to give him credit for that, you have a very low bar if that's considered a "big idea."

 

[diceman934]

There's not much evidence that that is because of Shanahan. I think any number of executives would have had the same success if they were given the key to the vault and allowed to take one step back in order take two steps forward.

Hiring Mike Babcock wasn't a masterstroke of hockey genius, pretty much anybody off the street could have told you that he was one of the upper echelon of coaches in the league nor was getting him to come to Toronto a great recruiting job by Shanahan, he just gave him an obscene amount of money.

Beyond that, the other big "success" of the rebuild was continuing to be lousy and accumulating draft picks. Again, it's not a big masterstroke of hockey genius to finally stop trading away draft picks so I have hard time giving a ton of credit to Brendan Shanahan for that, and if you do want to give him credit for that, you have a very low bar if that's considered a "big idea."

To funny and obscenely wrong:

Hires Hunter, Dubas and Lou who set the tone for what it means to be a Leaf. Ships out Kessel and Dion (no money retained best trade in 20 years). Traded Clarksons with out retaining. Drafting Nylander (pure Shanny decision) Drafted Marner and Mathews as well as other draft picks. Turned Kadri around.

Babcock was offered more by Buffalo and every hockey expert said we had no chance at signing him.

We just signed the biggest free agent in hockey to come play for the Leafs and Shanny was a huge part of that. We were a circus of a team just a short time ago and we are no longer the laughing stock of the league and the credit goes to Shanny and his decisions.

 

[Ignatius Reilly]

To funny and obscenely wrong:

Hires Hunter, Dubas and Lou who set the tone for what it means to be a Leaf. Ships out Kessel and Dion (no money retained best trade in 20 years). Traded Clarksons with out retaining. Drafting Nylander (pure Shanny decision) Drafted Marner and Mathews as well as other draft picks. Turned Kadri around.

Babcock was offered more by Buffalo and every hockey expert said we had no chance at signing him.

We just signed the biggest free agent in hockey to come play for the Leafs and Shanny was a huge part of that. We were a circus of a team just a short time ago and we are no longer the laughing stock of the league and the credit goes to Shanny and his decisions.

While I really didn't like the way you started this thread, you've totally redeemed it with this reply!

Nobody's perfect, but so far Shanny's a 9.9/10 for me.

 

[Buds17]

There's not much evidence that that is because of Shanahan. I think any number of executives would have had the same success if they were given the key to the vault and allowed to take one step back in order take two steps forward.

Hiring Mike Babcock wasn't a masterstroke of hockey genius, pretty much anybody off the street could have told you that he was one of the upper echelon of coaches in the league nor was getting him to come to Toronto a great recruiting job by Shanahan, he just gave him an obscene amount of money.

Beyond that, the other big "success" of the rebuild was continuing to be lousy and accumulating draft picks. Again, it's not a big masterstroke of hockey genius to finally stop trading away draft picks so I have hard time giving a ton of credit to Brendan Shanahan for that, and if you do want to give him credit for that, you have a very low bar if that's considered a "big idea."

Not everyone receives the green light to rebuild though. There still has to be a convincing pitch given.

Babcock's hiring didn't totally surprise me considering his history with Shanahan, but he did have other options that would've also figured to pay him well.

Draft picks in quantity and quality are good, but they still need to be turned into something productive at the NHL level, as it'll be tougher to acquire those kind of assets through trade and/or free agency as a rebuilding team. The Leafs actually did trade away a pick in the first round. They put it to good use in acquiring a starting goalie, and they could afford to since they had another 1st to keep.

 

[Daisy Jane]

There's not much evidence that that is because of Shanahan. I think any number of executives would have had the same success if they were given the key to the vault and allowed to take one step back in order take two steps forward.

Hiring Mike Babcock wasn't a masterstroke of hockey genius, pretty much anybody off the street could have told you that he was one of the upper echelon of coaches in the league nor was getting him to come to Toronto a great recruiting job by Shanahan, he just gave him an obscene amount of money.

Beyond that, the other big "success" of the rebuild was continuing to be lousy and accumulating draft picks. Again, it's not a big masterstroke of hockey genius to finally stop trading away draft picks so I have hard time giving a ton of credit to Brendan Shanahan for that, and if you do want to give him credit for that, you have a very low bar if that's considered a "big idea."

.....
um.
Burke and Nonis had the keys to the vault. (note that Nonis was the GM when Bell/Rogers took over, so he truly had the cache to do anything he wanted to do, where as people will tend to qualify Burke with "but he had the Pension, though." so no. that's obviously not the case.

If it was just about giving him obscene amount of money, Babcock would be in Buffalo.