Proposal: Don't Rent....Buy the final core piece.

[Eb]

1. Buy a Top 4-6 Dmen at TDL.
2. Make a major splash in the offseason.
3. Cup

 

[Trapper]

I think Rinzler said a couple of weeks because that's all the time we have until the TDL. It's not a lot of time but it's all we have left.

6th and 8th, thanks. I thought it was better than that, so much for my memory. Still pretty good though.

As far as: what I'm against is blowing our load in year 1 of whats going to be probably a 10 year or more window to win multiple cups and your not going to be able to go all in every year you have a chance it's about pick your best chances and going for it then

I couldn't agree more, I've been preaching that on a daily basis for a long time now. I keep asking people if we keep JVR and co. and that costs a 1st and a few 2nd's, how much are we going to spend next year or the year after than etc. ? We'll be broke in no time. It's all about picking your spots, figuring when is as you said, our best chance is and the idea that our best chance is now when we have to face maybe the top 2 teams in the NHL in the 1st 2 rounds is just plain nutso. We could beat them sure but betting our future on it, no thanks.



I'm 99% sure this is true. I think most people know that and it's all noise mostly, this is why I normally stay away from trade talks.

You have players like Daley and Green in Detroit. They are a good bet to sell one at the deadline.
I could see Ottawa trying to move a player like Oduya at the deadline.
Buffalo doesn't really have any D to move.
Would Florida consider Pysyk? He would be a D I'd have interest in. Seems like a long term fit. When Polak walks a Dermott/Pysyk pair could be solid. It's a now and future move.
The majority of the Habs D is slow and not very good at moving the puck. Pass.
McD could be the big name at the deadline and Tampa would have the assets to get it done.
Over in the West, any decent Edmonton D is not moving. The rest just doesn't cut it.
You never know what Arizona has in store. Every move they make just seems to not work.
Then you have the Canucks. I think they hold on to Tanev because their menatality (IMO) seems to be a couple of years retool. So right or wrong, I wouldn't be surprised if they think they are back in the playoff hunt next year.
Then add in a host of teams still fighting for a wild card spot. Maybe they will be buyers and sellers.

 

[ToneDog]

Has Babcock specifically stated what he would like to add?
Is it a 3/4 C, another PK winger, a RHD, a player with size?

I recall Babs saying he has mde it known to Lou what he wants and he had no intention of telling the media. Also said this on TSN yesterday in a 47 second clip:
Babcock: 'The people who think they’re in the know aren’t in the know'

 

[ACC1224]

I recall Babs saying he has mde it known to Lou what he wants and he had no intention of telling the media. Also said this on TSN yesterday in a 47 second clip:
Babcock: 'The people who think they’re in the know aren’t in the know'

That quote can be used for many comments that are read here daily.

 

[Trapper]

I recall Babs saying he has mde it known to Lou what he wants and he had no intention of telling the media. Also said this on TSN yesterday in a 47 second clip:
Babcock: 'The people who think they’re in the know aren’t in the know'

Ah another Babcock beauty.
Most of the reporters (McKenzie/Dreger/etc). say don't expect any earth shattering moves from the Leafs.
Chances of big trade: .0001%
Chances of own rentals being dealt: probably the same as above.

This doesn't seem to be outrageous media reporting. It doesn't appear to be stretching the not in the know chances either.

 

[ToneDog]

Ah another Babcock beauty.
Most of the reporters (McKenzie/Dreger/etc). say don't expect any earth shattering moves from the Leafs.
Chances of big trade: .0001%
Chances of own rentals being dealt: probably the same as above.

This doesn't seem to be outrageous media reporting. It doesn't appear to be stretching the not in the know chances either.

Hoping for Lou to surprise us but not expecting much.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Yeah. At the same time, you want to give every chance a try. If we can make cost-effective improvements to the team to neutralize some weak spot this year, then that might be worth it. Accelerating the time table also works, in the sense that we pay a large load of assets for a long-term piece that can help us right away.

You and I share the same position here. We want to maximize our chances over the larger picture. And bleeding assets has a high likely hood of gutting our chances towards the end of our window. At the same time, missed opportunities shouldn't be discounted. If we hurt our roster enough that we can't compete against the top teams this year, then that's quite a sizable bite out of our chances over the larger picture as well.

That's why we have to worry that if JVR goes, how will our depth scoring and PP fair? We already have issues with the latter, what if losing JVR makes the first unit lose their dynamic? I'm not sure we can replace what he does there.

It all comes down to value for me. If the return for JVR hover around a 1st plus something minor, then I might just keep him. If we get offered Fabbro, or some other high-end RHD prospect? It just might be worth the risk.

It's also about not only the quality of the pool, but also the stage it's in. Right now we are brimming with forward prospects that are ready to make an impact from now to maybe two seasons from now. We will not be able to utilize all of that, so it makes sense to use it.

Getting assets back is important. One thing I think we should consider is that instead of selling off pieces that might be hard to replace, we could sell surplus pieces we have no room for. Look at Korshkov/Grundström/Johnsson/Leivo for example. They'll be competing for one, maybe two spots. A team that wants NHL ready young talent might pay a very good pick for one of them. With good drafting, we can elongate the period where we have quality depth, instead of having a logjam and losing guys cheap because teams know they are waiver-eligible.

Just some thoughts. It's not an easy situation, this.

I agree on JVR in that I'd happily trade him for a high-end prospect but maybe not for just around a 1st. That's changed for me from just a few weeks ago because the better we play, the more reluctant I am to mess with it and since Dermott arrived, I'm beginning to like our chances a lot more than I have.

I agree completely that since we can't utilize all our prospects, it makes sense to "recycle" some of them for picks (or package them for something else).

You're right, it's not an easy situation. In addition to the obvious fact that we're now good so we have think about the present AND the future instead of the future, we're also in a really strange situation where we're almost right there with the elite teams in the league which indicates going for it but at the same time, we have to play BOS and TB in the first 2 rounds which indicates patience. This may be uncharted territory, what would be hilarious is if we finished top 3 overall along with BOS and TB, can you imagine that? Leaf fans would go nuts and demand a change to the playoff structure (not a bad idea anyway IMO). I'm not the best historian but I can't remember anything like this. We could finish as high as 3rd overall, and our reward is to face the top 2 teams in the first two rounds, just ridiculous. So yeah, it is not an easy situation, far from it.

So what should we do? As I said before, I like the middle road - forego trading JVR (and the others) but no high priced rentals. A small in-expensive add is fine too but nothing more. I think that's the smart thing to do at this point but maybe I'm just frozen like a deer caught in the headlights?

 

[BlueBaron]

Doughty and OEL?

Who will both want 7-8 year contracts, in the 10 + million range.

OEL is a lefty, so... umm, doesn't solve the RHD issue.

But Doughty, signed until he's 38, at 10 + million per... is somehow not a disastrous contract in his late thirties, while Weber's is?

Or are we only obtaining these guys are rentals?

OEL plays RD even if he is a left shot.

I'm not a big fan of saying we should or should not based off psychic predictions. Hence the phrase "we should explore" which you yourself quoted. Obviously if a reasonable deal cannot be reached we don't do it.

Weber's deal takes him to 39 and he is already in decline.

Weber is 32 right now in decline

OEL is 26 and not yet in his prime

Doughty is 28 and in his prime

Neither one would be signed until the age of 39 in your scenario but rather 34 and 36. Slight difference.

Also we do not know if they would be open to taking slightly less in either cap hit or term to be part of a perennial contender, Doughty is from Ontario after all. By my math we can afford a 10mil guy, OEL looks like he might be the cheaper option. We also might be able to get one of them to sign for say 6 year. We just don't know.

It's possible neither is a good match but we should still explore those options before committing to taking on Weber.

I'm sure some will say they will insist on 7 years and both will want insane sums etc etc but the reality is we just don't know.

 

[54thecup]

I want nothing to do with Weber. Helping out the Canadiens is not something I can see us doing.

I would rather a move for someone younger. If you're going to spend assets, make it worthwhile.

I agree! I'm curious to see whether Ekblad could be pulled from Florida! He is on a down year, they have many young prospects and don't like to spend money! At 22, he is a big, reliable RHD that would secure our backend for 10 years!! 7,5 M per would be cheap!

I would give up Lily, Kappy, another prospect and a 1st for him!

 

[Liminality]

So back to McDonagh for a bit. Since he's a LD but he's pretty much the type of Dman we need, is it worth trying to put Rielly back on the RD like he was in the playoffs if we can find a better fit for a Dman on the left side? Opens up more options instead of trying to find the perfect RD.

Again he'd be quite pricey but his age, playstyle and contract pretty much fit our situation. 4.7m for the rest of this year and next year, got to sign him when Matthews and Marner need contracts but there's also other pieces that come off the books.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Just knowing what i know as to inner workings with our team and GM's around the league in general (Nothing) i would do this.

Move out players for picks. Martin,polak,bozak,Moore, ( Leivo if thats what he wants only) etc.

Then start promoting from the Marlies. We are on the rise as a team but plenty of depth positions will need to be replaced by the draft.

None of the players i listed that i believe should or could be moved(Leivo) will get us a defenseman of quality.

We develop all these prospects to give them their try. We sit in a 50 contract limit crunch and therefore I believe clearing space for prospects promotion and evaluation at the Nhl level would be my acceptable ecpectation from management at this deadline.

Why start rushing the build now without evaluating what we have with the Marlies first.

Thats my two cents on my limited knowledge.

 

[nuck]

I agree on JVR in that I'd happily trade him for a high-end prospect but maybe not for just around a 1st. That's changed for me from just a few weeks ago because the better we play, the more reluctant I am to mess with it and since Dermott arrived, I'm beginning to like our chances a lot more than I have.

I agree completely that since we can't utilize all our prospects, it makes sense to "recycle" some of them for picks (or package them for something else).

You're right, it's not an easy situation. In addition to the obvious fact that we're now good so we have think about the present AND the future instead of the future, we're also in a really strange situation where we're almost right there with the elite teams in the league which indicates going for it but at the same time, we have to play BOS and TB in the first 2 rounds which indicates patience. This may be uncharted territory, what would be hilarious is if we finished top 3 overall along with BOS and TB, can you imagine that? Leaf fans would go nuts and demand a change to the playoff structure (not a bad idea anyway IMO). I'm not the best historian but I can't remember anything like this. We could finish as high as 3rd overall, and our reward is to face the top 2 teams in the first two rounds, just ridiculous. So yeah, it is not an easy situation, far from it.

So what should we do? As I said before, I like the middle road - forego trading JVR (and the others) but no high priced rentals. A small in-expensive add is fine too but nothing more. I think that's the smart thing to do at this point but maybe I'm just frozen like a deer caught in the headlights?

2 goals and 1 assist in 6 playoff games last year isn't setting the bar that high. They have the wingers to replace 3 points I think. #3C should be harder to fill internally except Boz has been so bad I have zero faith in him scoring at all in the the first round. He isn't done as a player, he's just sulking because he knows he will be moved. I don't think JVR and Bozak are capable of being real factors in a playoff series win. Adios to both and hopefully they bring in two harder working guys to take those spots.

 

[egd27]

I'm sure he has to Lou Lam.

They talk?
Huh, imagine that

 

[firstemperor]

2 goals and 1 assist in 6 playoff games last year isn't setting the bar that high. They have the wingers to replace 3 points I think. #3C should be harder to fill internally except Boz has been so bad I have zero faith in him scoring at all in the the first round. He isn't done as a player, he's just sulking because he knows he will be moved. I don't think JVR and Bozak are capable of being real factors in a playoff series win. Adios to both and hopefully they bring in two harder working guys to take those spots.

I don't see it that way with Bozak. I don't know if he's really declining all that hard either. I think he competes hard, it's just a myriad of circumstances against him. Him and JVR aren't great compliments to each other at ES and they are just byproducts towards how the game is changing/evolving IMO.

Neither play heavy games, and neither can carry puck through the neutral zone with any speed....and neither are good defensively. That's why they get exposed more often than not IMO. They have good niche spots on special teams though. They aren't bad hockey players, but they are extremely poor in multiple dimensions, and not great at the most important. Neither play a heavy game, neither play a good transition game.

I think Bozak, JVR are ultimately, two guys that have to be heavily sheltered...which is tough to go by on in today's league.....versus a player like say, Kapanen..he's versatile at almost every facet, he can slot in anywhere.

Those are just my thoughts on them though, others may see it differently.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Are the Leafs the team to beat if they give up nothing on the NHL roster and get Tavares?

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Are the Leafs the team to beat if they give up nothing on the NHL roster and get Tavares?

Yes.

We would be unstoppable with Matthews- Tavares- Kadri down the middle. The complexed thing if we did would be drafting quality defensemen to replace dmen we would not be able to afford on a regular basis as contracts come up for them.

Hunter managed to load up on skill wingers when the plan took shape. Just maybe he canndo it with defensemen in the future.

There is a possibility it happens if JT goes on the Market. We would likely win a cup or two if we did get him this summer.

It would initiate a high degree of asset management on players outside the core when ELC expire is the thing.

I believe management would definitely sign him if he wanted to sign ith us.

 

[-DeMo-]

Are the Leafs the team to beat if they give up nothing on the NHL roster and get Tavares?

is that even possible?

 

[A1LeafNation]

So lets go f***ing do it and trade for him!

Next year is not always guaranteed. We are a good team and rolling this year and have managed through injuries...

 

[BlueForever75]

I agree! I'm curious to see whether Ekblad could be pulled from Florida! He is on a down year, they have many young prospects and don't like to spend money! At 22, he is a big, reliable RHD that would secure our backend for 10 years!! 7,5 M per would be cheap!

I would give up Lily, Kappy, another prospect and a 1st for him!

That offer is over kill......drop Kappy from it and it would be more fair.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Are the Leafs the team to beat if they give up nothing on the NHL roster and get Tavares?

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
JVR - Tavares - Marner
Marleau - Kadri - Brown
Komarov - Bozak - Kapanen

add in an above average defense and a top 5 goalie and we look like the team to beat to me

 

[-DeMo-]

That offer is over kill......drop Kappy from it and it would be more fair.

to get Ekblad at minimum I would guess 1st + Liljegren + a roster player like Brown/Kapanen to even get the conversation starting, teams tend not to give away young prosepcts.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
JVR - Tavares - Marner
Marleau - Kadri - Brown
Komarov - Bozak - Kapanen

add in an above average defense and a top 5 goalie and we look like the team to beat to me

Dont break up the Kadri line. Let JT drive his own first line:

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
JVR - Tavares - Brown
Marleau - Kadri - Marner
Komarov - Bozak - Kapanen

Its a big f*** you to the rest of the league when you don't have the depth to stop 3 first lines.

 

[selltrade]

Hainsey is signed for 1 more year. I think he's going to stay

reread what I wrote,, at the end of 2018-19 .. He'll be 37 then, time to move on

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
JVR - Tavares - Marner
Marleau - Kadri - Brown
Komarov - Bozak - Kapanen

add in an above average defense and a top 5 goalie and we look like the team to beat to me

Nice shot at Andersensational there dude. Go shake yer pillow!

 

[Ratboy]

OEL plays RD even if he is a left shot.

I'm not a big fan of saying we should or should not based off psychic predictions. Hence the phrase "we should explore" which you yourself quoted. Obviously if a reasonable deal cannot be reached we don't do it.

Weber's deal takes him to 39 and he is already in decline.

Weber is 32 right now in decline

OEL is 26 and not yet in his prime

Doughty is 28 and in his prime

Neither one would be signed until the age of 39 in your scenario but rather 34 and 36. Slight difference.

Also we do not know if they would be open to taking slightly less in either cap hit or term to be part of a perennial contender, Doughty is from Ontario after all. By my math we can afford a 10mil guy, OEL looks like he might be the cheaper option. We also might be able to get one of them to sign for say 6 year. We just don't know.

It's possible neither is a good match but we should still explore those options before committing to taking on Weber.

I'm sure some will say they will insist on 7 years and both will want insane sums etc etc but the reality is we just don't know.

Whoa wait.. who's psychic here? Who opened their third eye.. time to fess up!

I'd be perfectly fine with standing pat and letting the team grow internally.