Proposal: Don't Rent....Buy the final core piece.

[deletethis]

Shea Weber for a late 1st and a good, not great, defense prospect sounds like a steal to me. The contract seems to be one of those "my-equipment-gives-me-a-chronic-rash" type of deals. Biggest question: will this guy be healthy enough for the playoffs this season?

 

[ACC1224]

If we can sign a stud as a UFA, what does it matter? We're so close to the top teams right now if our young studs keep developing (and why wouldn't they) we're on track to join them soon anyway, maybe sooner than you think. Our defence is playing so well lately. With Dermott we have a solid top 4 all of a sudden, do you really think that another stud D is an absolute necessity and we can't win without getting one?



Yes.

I'm not against making a trade if the right deal comes along but I don't like the idea of trading Liljegren and 1st rounds for Weber (just an example, I don't like the idea of mortaging our future in general). Just look at the impact Dermott is having and think of that as our TDL deal IMO. What do you think would be the price we'd have to pay for a veteran player who's playing at the level Dermott is playing at right now? Maybe it's a mirage and will fade away soon but I dunno, this is like a new team ever since Dermott arrived and I like the way we're playing right now just fine.

I like Dermott as well and have zero interest in Weber. I do think though that this Team could go pretty far if they were to add a #1 D.
I like Rielly but I don't see them going very far without a defenseman better than him.

 

[-DeMo-]

Sure you can. This is a key point of the season and this winning streak coincides with Babcock assembling the playoff roster. This isn't some flukey run that's going on right now. Once the team emerged from that rough part of the schedule at around .500, they knew it was go time.

I'm not advocating a win now stance, don't get me wrong. I'll buy into the long game as well, but I cannot ignore what's going on here and to think management is going to sit on a contending team and either weaken it or not bolster it is foolish.

The winning streak will play a huge role in determining the direction.

you can but you shouldn't, are you saying from here on out you expect the team to win 20-21 wins in the final 24 games like our last 10 games would suggest?

 

[Gary Nylund]

you can but you shouldn't, are you saying from here on out you expect the team to win 20-21 wins in the final 24 games like our last 10 games would suggest?

I'm pretty sure nobody expects that. I don't remember the numbers but I believe we were a top 3 or so team over the last couple of months last season, I don't see why that can't happen again myself.

 

[Razz]

you can but you shouldn't, are you saying from here on out you expect the team to win 20-21 wins in the final 24 games like our last 10 games would suggest?

Has the team shown that they don't deserve an upgrade? We all have to face the fact that the better this team gets, the less likely the team will keep prospects and picks around. I'm a Leafs fan, I'll buy into whatever they do more or less, but we have to face reality here. Once the window opens, it's open. Question is, does Lou feel the window has opened? The more they win, the easier that decision is made.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I like Dermott as well and have zero interest in Weber. I do think though that this Team could go pretty far if they were to add a #1 D.
I like Rielly but I don't see them going very far without a defenseman better than him.

I know it's going back a long way but I remember the Leafs of 93 and ever since then, I've felt that you don't always need a prototypical #1 and "defence by committee" can do just fine. I'd rather roll with what we have now and see what happens. We could win the cup with the roster we have now, we could also add Weber and lose in the 1st round.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I'm sure the less they retain, the less we'd have to pay them. How far are we willing to go to take on that contract though? I'd rather retain cause 7.8m is a massive contract for 8 or w/e years it was.

I don't know to be truthful.

 

[selltrade]

You make a deal if it makes sense for the long term, the Leafs are just starting to reap the benefits of a proper rebuild. I don't think the rebuild is done. By the end of the 2018-19 season in all probability JVR, Bozak, Moore, Uncle Leo, Hainsey, Polak and Gardiner are gone. I want the Leafs to be able to add Borgman, Dermott, Liljegren fulltime to go with Rielly and Zaitsev.. Up front Im pretty sure Nylander moves to Centre and the big 3 down the middle are Matthews, Nylander, and Kadri. With JVR, Leo and Nylander gone off the wings we're gonna need Grundstrom, Korshkov, Kapanen and Bracco's of the world to be ready... I still think they need 1 or 2 more good years of drafting.. Centre depth and Defensive depth would be good... Perhaps we will be treated to a good old fashion hockey trade 1 day like Ryan Johansen for Seth Jones... I hope we dont see 2 young guys and 2 1st rounders for a Shea Weber type of deal .... Just my 2 cents

 

[zeke]

I'm actually less worried about the salary as much as I am his overall fit to the team design. The Leafs are a fast and young team. Does adding Weber help or hurt this group? I'm on the fence about that. I am absolutely giddy with the idea of Weber battling it out with Chara in the playoffs though.

The one major flaw the Leafs have is that steady shutdown posture after taking the lead in tough games. Weber most definitely helps in that.

my take stylewise is that Hainsey has fit here like a glove, and Weber is like Hainsey++.

 

[Razz]

my take stylewise is that Hainsey has fit here like a glove, and Weber is like Hainsey++.

100% agreed. If only Hainsey had a right handed shot, this whole debate would be largely redundant.

 

[zeke]

but i have to add - Weber is definitely not my only target here.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

my take stylewise is that Hainsey has fit here like a glove, and Weber is like Hainsey++.

the problem is that Weber might be too old to really mesh with our core going forward. If Trouba still doesn't want to play for Winnipeg I'd rather go after him. Pesce, Manson, and Parayko are also good targets

 

[BlueBaron]

Just say no to Weber. Short term gain for long term pain. We really should explore the other possibilities like Doughty and OEL before we consider a disastrous contract like that. Not only that, why help the Habs clean up their mess? If they want to 50% retain ok, let's talk.

 

[BertCorbeau]

With some retention I would take Weber in a trade on the basis that I believe his contract will be moveable in the latter years. A risky assumption but we're seeing these "unmovable" contracts get moved a little more often these days. Personally I'd take the risk.

BUT I wouldn't pay that much for Weber, even with retention, on the basis that the contract is still a burden that carries that same long term risk. It's price-dependant for me.

If I'm moving futures, I'm doing it that will help the team now and in the future years. A good example is the Andersen trade. Acquiring a legit position of need for futures for a guy that fits the age of the team for the medium to long term. Even at that rate though, I'm hesitant to move multiple high quality assets (i.e. a first rounder AND a blue chip prospect). Depends on who is available.

 

[Daisy Jane]

the problem is that Weber might be too old to really mesh with our core going forward. If Trouba still doesn't want to play for Winnipeg I'd rather go after him. Pesce, Manson, and Parayko are also good targets

i heard Trouba doesnt wanna play in Canada.
I think the younger guys can bond w/the older guys - (see Marleau basically adopting Matthews + Marner) v well. but seriously. I would go for Pesce. I blame @Canada4Gold for putting that bee in my bonnet.

 

[zeke]

the problem is that Weber might be too old to really mesh with our core going forward. If Trouba still doesn't want to play for Winnipeg I'd rather go after him. Pesce, Manson, and Parayko are also good targets

yep, it's a concern. There's a decent chance his skillset and style ages well, and stays effective for the majority of the next 5yrs, a la Chara, but there's always the chance he falls apart.

Of course, that risk should be part of why he might come cheaper than his actual on ice value suggests. (though bergevin is also unlikely to sell him for cheap).

 

[ACC1224]

I know it's going back a long way but I remember the Leafs of 93 and ever since then, I've felt that you don't always need a prototypical #1 and "defence by committee" can do just fine. I'd rather roll with what we have now and see what happens. We could win the cup with the roster we have now, we could also add Weber and lose in the 1st round.

1993 was more in the last goal wins generation, games are much tighter now.
I hope you're right but I'm not as optimistic about the defense as you are.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

yep, it's a concern. There's a decent chance his skillset and style ages well, and stays effective for the majority of the next 5yrs, a la Chara, but there's always the chance he falls apart.

Of course, that risk should be part of why he might come cheaper than his actual on ice value suggests. (though bergevin is also unlikely to sell him for cheap).

I like Weber for right now at least, but the risk might be a little too much. but yeah, I highly doubt the Habs are going to give up the guy they gave up Subban for to a divisional rival for cheap anyway.

it might be better to look at adding a LHD and then moving Gardiner for futures

 

[zeke]

And it doesn't even have to be a dman. Maybe some people think we should trade for another #1C?

 

[Clark4Ever]

Let's just reunite all the former Team Canada players with Babs.

Marleau, Nash, Weber, etc.

In all honesty, I'd be ok with acquiring them if there was significant salary retention (for Weber), and we didn't have to give up any of our top prospects.

 

[Razz]

yep, it's a concern. There's a decent chance his skillset and style ages well, and stays effective for the majority of the next 5yrs, a la Chara, but there's always the chance he falls apart.

Of course, that risk should be part of why he might come cheaper than his actual on ice value suggests. (though bergevin is also unlikely to sell him for cheap).

Yeah that's the rub with Weber. Bergevin would have to be fired first.

 

[Gary Nylund]

And it doesn't even have to be a dman. Maybe some people think we should trade for another #1C?

Our D isn't nearly as bad as some people seem to think so a centre might make a ton of sense. But why not wait and see if we can pick up Tavares for nothing? It could happen but good luck fitting him in under the cap if we have Weber on the books which is yet another good reason not to give up huge pieces of our future for a veteran with a huge contract.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Let's just reunite all the former Team Canada players with Babs.

Marleau, Nash, Weber, etc.

In all honesty, I'd be ok with acquiring them if there was significant salary retention (for Weber), and we didn't have to give up any of our top prospects.

I'm pretty sure we'd all be more than OK with this impossible dream scenario.

 

[egd27]

i truly wonder what the price for weber would be.

The price would be assisting the Montreal Canadiens in their rebuilding efforts. Too steep for me

 

[ACC1224]

And it doesn't even have to be a dman. Maybe some people think we should trade for another #1C?

Not for me, defense is the obvious need if they wish to go deep.