Proposal: Don't Rent....Buy the final core piece.

Gary Nylund

Registered User
Oct 10, 2013
29,783
21,959
This is partly why i believe we should be looking to sell JVR this deadline- We keep looking at this like its our only shot, like everything is gonna drop off next season. We need to get out of the loosing mentality and start looking at the long term goal of winning the cup, not just improving on last seasons playoffs.

I agree, this is not our only shot and we should be thinking long term.

This team is not a cup contender. Simple as. We require one or two solid pieces, so if that means a second round defeat this season ill take it.

You might have to take us going out in the 1st round as that's what the odds favour at this point. At the same time though, we are absolutely a cup contender, don't really how anyone can say we aren't. Dermott looks to be a solid piece, Liljegren might be another, our young guys still aren't at their peaks so have a bit of patience, there's every reason to believe will get better, maybe much better without making any trades at all.

Package the assets for JVR with prospects to get a solid Dman.

I dont want to see this team become the Caps/Blues/Sharks of this generation- dominant in the regular season for a long period of time but with nothing to show for it.

We all want to win the cup. Sometimes it's a bounce or two or a hot goalie who makes the difference. The best we can hope for is to be a perennial contender and if we're able to do that, the cup should come at one point. It also wouldn't shock me if WSH won the cup this year.
 

StevenB

Registered User
Oct 7, 2014
1,831
1,063
North York
If Liljegren continues playing the way he is and turns into the player he was hyped to be pre mono, you’ll regret this trade. The 3 untouchables on the leafs should be Matthews, Andersen, and Liljegren.
Liljegren only gets traded of a player of Doughty’s caliber is coming back which I understand wouldn’t make sense for the team trading him but barring an extreme overpayment there’s no reason to trade him
 

zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
66,937
36,957
When I look at this team and if asked what 1 roster player would you upgrade if you could only make 1 move... I would tell them... Bozak, the guy needs to go in order to activate the potential of that ****ing line and it's pissing me off watching him do absolutely nothing positive yet looking busy. How can anyone not see that he is a proverbial hamster on a wheel.

Here's the thing - Bozak is one of the better 3rd line centers in hockey.
 

zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
66,937
36,957
Looks like you're right, the web site I always look at is one game out of date. I looked at nhl.com, did the math and we are indeed ahead of WSH now. It's by the slimmest of margins as both teams projected point totals would be rounded to 104 but hey, we are ahead.

Thanks for pointing out my mistake. 6th overall and rising baby!

pro-tip: go to the nhl.com team stats page and they have Pts% as a sortable column, always up to date.
 

thewave

Registered User
Jun 17, 2011
39,875
9,713
Here's the thing - Bozak is one of the better 3rd line centers in hockey.

I would rather play Boyle as my 3c. He may be statistically padded to the hilt by Marner and JVR. Funny Marner goes to Kadri's line and becomes instantly the Marner of old. Repeating myself and all but, must be nice for Marner to not have to play 2 positions at once C and wing as he did with Bozak.
 

Funk21

Registered User
Mar 6, 2013
4,335
1,856
Toronto
Here is a proposal and tell if it is too bias:

Flames

Hamilton
Lazar
4th

Leafs

2018 1st
2018 2nd (Lower of two picks)
Gardiner
Pickard

Flames restock their picks, add a Goalie to cover Smith until his groin is healed up.

Hamonic moves up, Gardiner plays in top 4.

Leafs get their 1st pairing D who is locked up with some term. Dermott moves up and Hainsey drops to third pairing where he should be. Hamilton can be a mentor to Lilijgren and in another year he gets the call after Hainsey contract is done.
 

zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
66,937
36,957
If Liljegren continues playing the way he is and turns into the player he was hyped to be pre mono, you’ll regret this trade. The 3 untouchables on the leafs should be Matthews, Andersen, and Liljegren.
Liljegren only gets traded of a player of Doughty’s caliber is coming back which I understand wouldn’t make sense for the team trading him but barring an extreme overpayment there’s no reason to trade him

eh I love lilly but placing him above or even near willy mitch or rielly is probably a mistake.
 

zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
66,937
36,957
I would rather play Boyle as my 3c. He may be statistically padded to the hilt by Marner and JVR. Funny Marner goes to Kadri's line and becomes instantly the Marner of old. Repeating myself and all but, must be nice for Marner to not have to play 2 positions at once C and wing as he did with Bozak.

Bozak isn't perfect, but Boyle struggled as our 4th line center last year.

You compare Bozak to players in his role and usage, and he ranks near the top in production and possession.
 

zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
66,937
36,957
It would look pretty bad if we traded hall for larsson, and then flipped him for brown

true, but I think it already looks bad.

Larsson is a fine solid 2nd pair defensive dman. I don't want to be the team paying a prime price for that though. I'd rather pick up cheap UFA like Hainsey to fill that role every year.
 

thewave

Registered User
Jun 17, 2011
39,875
9,713
Bozak isn't perfect, but Boyle struggled as our 4th line center last year.

You compare Bozak to players in his role and usage, and he ranks near the top in production and possession.

Only while tethered to 2x 1st liners man! JVR is an L1 LW playing L3 on this team. Marner is a L1 RW who was play L3... How they heck do you glance over this stuff.
 

13pacheco31

Registered User
Jan 17, 2014
1,915
867
Here is a proposal and tell if it is too bias:

Flames

Hamilton
Lazar
4th

Leafs

2018 1st
2018 2nd (Lower of two picks)
Gardiner
Pickard

Flames restock their picks, add a Goalie to cover Smith until his groin is healed up.

Hamonic moves up, Gardiner plays in top 4.

Leafs get their 1st pairing D who is locked up with some term. Dermott moves up and Hainsey drops to third pairing where he should be. Hamilton can be a mentor to Lilijgren and in another year he gets the call after Hainsey contract is done.
Maybe keep that proposal here and not in the trades and rumours page... I don't see that going over well
 

StevenB

Registered User
Oct 7, 2014
1,831
1,063
North York
eh I love lilly but placing him above or even near willy mitch or rielly is probably a mistake.
Yeah I’m like really high on Liljegren I’ve been following him for a few years and I legitimately think he has a shot to be a 70+ point d-man in the league if he can put it all together. If you think we have good skaters now, wait until Liljegren breaks into the league. His main problem is that he tries too much to force a play when he has better options but that’s a problem with most young offensive dmen, as he matures he’ll learn to pick his battles. I think his floor is a gardiner-esque player who shows flashes of brilliance but can never seem to stay consistent and his ceiling is a karlsson type player who actually knows how to skate backwards :sarcasm::laugh:
 

Leafidelity

Best Sport/Worst League
Apr 6, 2008
37,777
7,804
Downtown Canada
...the real answer is "never", isn't it?

we should never trade any good young assets for a good veteran....no matter how many years go by, right?

I mean, if we're being honest.

If we’re being honest, this team isn’t one piece away from winning a cup. Not while the big 3 are ~60 point players. They aren’t good enough yet.

Tampa Bay is likely going all-in because their best players are in the prime of their careers.

Thankfully, this management group isn’t going to act like a boy heading to prom and will have patience.
 

zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
66,937
36,957
If we’re being honest, this team isn’t one piece away from winning a cup. Not while the big 3 are ~60 point players. They aren’t good enough yet.

Tampa Bay is likely going all-in because their best players are in the prime of their careers.

Thankfully, this management group isn’t going to act like a boy heading to prom and will have patience.


So say in 2 years, you'll be good with trading good young assets for a top veteran?
 

SprDaVE

Moderator
Sep 20, 2008
51,545
32,304
It's ok to take risks and make a trade for a veteran and an upgrade. If your management, scouting staff and coaches are competent enough, you should be able to survive trading a top prospect in a trade that got you a top player.

We've all had traumatic experiences with Nonis, Burke and even JFJ targetting the wrong kind of players for our top assets. So I get being overly pessimistic about something like that from certain people. But targeting the right kind of players for the right kind of assets is perfectly fine.

Just look at Anaheim and Nashville. While they haven't won cups or anything recently, they've been contenders for a long time and very close to a cup win despite trading plenty of top prospects, picks and everything in between in that time span.

We have a great team missing one or two pieces to take it over the top. That's not an exaggeration. It's time to look at this team as being a contender, not a pretender.
 

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