News Article: Did Mike Babcock Almost Ruin the Toronto Maple Leafs?

[Wafflewhipper]

Yes, yes I am.

Ok then, no need to burst yer bubble

 

[Wafflewhipper]

The guy who hired Babcock,and Dubas,is the person to blame imo.

What are we blaming for here. We are 12 in the league after having a difficult year. Babcock is gone good riddance and if they go just playoffs and cancel the reg season we are in the playoffs. In fully healthy for the first time all season.

Nothing to blame for. Unless you assume blame is a prerequisite. I don’t. If deficiencies get fixed then it was a rough patch. The fair time frame due date to fix little things hasn’t arrived. I’ll reserve opinion right now and just evaluate

 

[JT AM da real deal]

The guy who hired Babcock,and Dubas,is the person to blame imo.

Too many things badly managed for sure. Larry hiring Babs. and Shanny hiring Dubas. It was so out of control. There was no order. Hopefully we are now back in a more normal situation. But Shanny went to board on Babs package for sure so he will be next in line as he hired Dubas. He might not get another pass. But my guess is Shanny gets a couple years with Dubie before the powers that be make another decision.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Are memories short here to the extent posters can’t remember what the team looked like in the six losses and previous games under badcock this year. Ohhh man that wasso disgusting to watch lol.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Too many things badly managed for sure. Larry hiring Babs. and Shanny hiring Dubas. It was so out of control. There was no order. Hopefully we are now back in a more normal situation. But Shanny went to board on Babs package for sure so he will be next in line as he hired Dubas. He might not get another pass. But my guess is Shanny gets a couple years with Dubie before the powers that be make another decision.

They are safe for now just like any other teams managers!

 

[Big Muddy]

The guy who hired Babcock,and Dubas,is the person to blame imo.

He is the common denominator in the equation. We know at least that much.

 

[hotpaws]

If I simply want to believe that my team is being run by a competent GM then why didn't I think that was the case when the team was being run by Lou? Then why did I think that Babcock should have been fired more than a year and a half before he was (and felt he was the wrong coach for the team before that) and heavily criticized Dubas for not doing so? Then why did I give Dubas an F- at the trade deadline? Then why did I heavily criticize Dubas for going against his own stated development philosophy this season with both Sandin and Liljegren (and was about the only one to do so)? Then why have I repeatedly said starting on the day Matthews signed (and it was only made worse when Marner signed) that this team has essentially no chance of winning the cup as long as their stars are taking up that much of the cap? Then why have I said repeatedly that this team needs more grit and toughness as well as players who are annoying to play against (Manson, Risto, Dillon on D, forwards like Johan Larsson - who will be a UFA this summer - Leivo will also be a UFA - and I want him to return, although not annoying to play against, he does bring qualities the team lacks), which seems to go against Dubas' philosophy? I am also just as much a Sabres fan and I don't think that team is being run by a competent GM.

I blame the contract demands of the star players on Babcock because I have felt that he created an environment where players hated him so much that they had no interest in signing reasonable contracts. I don't think that reasonable contracts were in any way possible with the big three as long as Babcock was the coach and I said so while Lou was still the GM. That doesn't mean that I don't criticize Dubas for the things that I actually feel are his fault.

if i wrongly lumped you in with the Dubas fan club then i apologize

but here's the thing , you can hate a person but still believe they're a good coach and on the flip side you can like someone but believe they're incompetent and most players believe Babs is a good coach even though they may hate the guy so that's why i highly doubt the players made there demands based on there dislike for Babs instead of how JT skewed our internal salary cap pecking order

 

[Bluelines]

I'm sure the arrival of 4 of the best in the league didn't have any impact

If all it takes to be a good team, Edmonton should have won the cup for the last 3 years. Takes A LOT more than just good players to make a good team.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

if i wrongly lumped you in with the Dubas fan club then i apologize

but here's the thing , you can hate a person but still believe they're a good coach and on the flip side you can like someone but believe they're incompetent and most players believe Babs is a good coach even though they may hate the guy so that's why i highly doubt the players made there demands based on there dislike for Babs instead of how JT skewed our internal salary cap pecking order

I’m Dubas fan club VIP member. Co Chair at your service. You should be more concerned with getting your facts straight before you try insinuating some kind of stigma on appreciating Dubas.

He’s satisfactorily competently unspectacular ha

 

[ottomaddox]

I'm still waiting for Leaf Fans to blame Babcock for the Corona Virus.

 

[Pookie]

Several players made comments immediately after he was fired that Keefe keys them play more creative, etc. Nothing concrete, just veiled jabs. Shanahan with similar jabs last week. Add that to the trips Babcock had to make before last season to calm Matthews and Andersen and I think there's enough evidence.

Life isn't either or. Some players might not have liked him. Others may have.

There's also counter evidence.

Kadri not waiving his NTC to go to Calgary (Colorado was not on his list) and then offering this:

Kadri on Babcock being fired: "Tough to see. I think any team that's struggling is looking for a spark & a change & I think that's what the team was looking for. I, personally, think Babs is a great coach & he helped that team over there get to the next step ..."​

Then there's this summer:

https://thehockeywriters.com/toronto-maple-leafs-mikheyev-babcock/

"Coach Mike Babcock’s personal touch made a difference. Although a large number of teams were interested, Mikheyev chose the Maple Leafs because Babcock had built a relationship and communicated closely with him over the last year. In addition, other Russian players – including Nikita Zaitsev and former Detroit Red Wing Pavel Datsyuk – encouraged Mikheyev to play for Babcock. "

​

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Life isn't either or. Some players might not have liked him. Others may have.

There's also counter evidence.

Kadri not waiving his NTC to go to Calgary (Colorado was not on his list) and then offering this:

Kadri on Babcock being fired: "Tough to see. I think any team that's struggling is looking for a spark & a change & I think that's what the team was looking for. I, personally, think Babs is a great coach & he helped that team over there get to the next step ..."​

Then there's this summer:

https://thehockeywriters.com/toronto-maple-leafs-mikheyev-babcock/

"Coach Mike Babcock’s personal touch made a difference. Although a large number of teams were interested, Mikheyev chose the Maple Leafs because Babcock had built a relationship and communicated closely with him over the last year. In addition, other Russian players – including Nikita Zaitsev and former Detroit Red Wing Pavel Datsyuk – encouraged Mikheyev to play for Babcock. "

​

Who cares. The fan hate for him is large. I wouldn’t hold a door for him

 

[Lightsol]

But time has made more than proven why Babs thought like that.

Because Leaf fans still dream of a team of Wendel Clarks, even though Wendel was a once-in-a-lifetime player that we'll probably never see again? And so too many measure the ability of star players by how closely they play to Wendel Clark in his prime?

 

[Wafflewhipper]

It just dawned on me that I don’t like Babcock but i hope him and his family remain healthy and safe through these tough times we all face. So hockey takes a back burner for me and likely not cool to be negative during this time. All the best babs and thanks for everything. I’m done

 

[Pookie]

I can only speak for myself but when Komarov had to hold Matt Martin back from punching him out for what he did to Marner indicates someone had enough of him. Then he sat him and had him traded. Martin was stand up, better liked guy in the room.

Yeahthey couldn’t stand him. The Spezza scratch game one in Ottawa and the insult to spezza as a player that he needed more reps.

I know lots more if you want. Now you tell me how they respected them pr!ckshot instances from that piece or work Scabcock

Hey its well reported the kind of person he was to people.

Speaking of reporting about the kind of person he was to people:

Q&A: Maple Leafs' John Tavares on Mike Babcock, fatherhood and books - Sportsnet.ca

SN: Did you talk to Mike Babcock after he got fired?
JT: Yes.
SN: How did that conversation go? Or is it ongoing?
JT: Well, I just called to thank him. He was a big part of bringing me here. Also, he helped me become a better player. I had a really good year under him (a career-high 47 goals, 88 points and plus-19). He taught me a lot, and I think his commitment every day to maximize the team and maximize everybody was extremely impressive.​

https://thehockeywriters.com/toronto-maple-leafs-mikheyev-babcock/

Coach Mike Babcock’s personal touch made a difference. Although a large number of teams were interested, Mikheyev chose the Maple Leafs because Babcock had built a relationship and communicated closely with him over the last year. In addition, other Russian players – including Nikita Zaitsev and former Detroit Red Wing Pavel Datsyuk – encouraged Mikheyev to play for Babcock. I​

 

[Pookie]

Who cares. The fan hate for him is large. I wouldn’t hold a door for him

Fans are always known for being reasonable aren't they?

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Fans are always known for being reasonable aren't they?

Well maybe some are but jeez I’m not. I'm like this lunatic reactive self depreciating maniac

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Life isn't either or. Some players might not have liked him. Others may have.

There's also counter evidence.

Kadri not waiving his NTC to go to Calgary (Colorado was not on his list) and then offering this:

Kadri on Babcock being fired: "Tough to see. I think any team that's struggling is looking for a spark & a change & I think that's what the team was looking for. I, personally, think Babs is a great coach & he helped that team over there get to the next step ..."​

Then there's this summer:

https://thehockeywriters.com/toronto-maple-leafs-mikheyev-babcock/

"Coach Mike Babcock’s personal touch made a difference. Although a large number of teams were interested, Mikheyev chose the Maple Leafs because Babcock had built a relationship and communicated closely with him over the last year. In addition, other Russian players – including Nikita Zaitsev and former Detroit Red Wing Pavel Datsyuk – encouraged Mikheyev to play for Babcock. "

​

Good info. Not saying I'm right. It's just the vibe I got.

 

[Blowfish]

Dubas

 

[Spargon]

No one "ruined" the Leafs Babcock was simply no longer the right fit for the team and they clearly tuned him out. The media onslaught after is what it is I am sure he will work again if he needs but with the money Leafs still owe him he can take his time.

I always shake my head hearing these cries for Dubas' head already and now even Shannahan. What exactly have they done wrong? Shanny has helped repaired damaged relationships with guys like Keon left over from the Harold Ballard era. Helped the Leafs restore a culture (with Babcocks help) that we weren't going to be the laughing stock anymore. Shanny got the board to green-light a scorched earth rebuild which got us Matthews. Since we got Matthews and launched the "you cant do that" 8 rookie lineup we have been consistently in the playoffs after 1 trip in a decade before with the mighty Nonis at the helm and his playoff lineup of Colton Orr, Fraser Mclaren and Mark Fraser AT THE SAME TIME! and that was in a shortened season where every metric said in a full season we would have tanked.

In the last 3 seasons how many records has this team set both personal and team level? I've lost track, so I am always baffled how after an up and down season with a coaching change and a ton of injuries to key players to the degree we never iced our best roster for a single game all season, we are screaming for peoples heads.

Did people truly expect we would just turn a corner after 1-2 years and be a true contender? I can almost guarantee you the Leafs are playing 2-3 years ahead of what Shannahan et all envisioned at the start of the "Shannaplan". Any of you who actually think either Shannahan or Dubas are in danger any time soon unless we spiral to the bottom to the standings for a full season and miss playoffs badly at least are going to be angry for a while.

 

[cgc83]

Babcock bought and did good things with this group (like almost any coach would/should be able to do).
Heeee also did some silly shake your head sort of things .

I think Babcock in time will regret the decisions he made and the battles he decided to take on and off the ice .

He would of ruined them i guess being the wrong guy to coach them

 

[Its not your fault]

counterpoint: yes

There's enough points on the table still I am still a no.

 

[Menzinger]

Several players made comments immediately after he was fired that Keefe keys them play more creative, etc. Nothing concrete, just veiled jabs. Shanahan with similar jabs last week. Add that to the trips Babcock had to make before last season to calm Matthews and Andersen and I think there's enough evidence.

Imo just watchibg the players in thenroom after that first postgame video was pretty telling.

Doesnt mean that Babs was the only issue at the time, but imo i think youd be bsrd pressed to argue there likely wasnt some degree of tension between roster vs coaching staff then

 

[xxOCZMSxx]

Right idea.
Wrong guy.
Dubas IS ruining the Leafs.
With , amazingly , Shanahan cheering him on.
All he has to do is look how he played.
That is what we need more of.
What a couple of Morons.
They did very good with Babcock.
He's a great Coach.
Apparently too tough for kids.
He will Coach MEN for a long time to come in the NHL.

I can’t wait to see how this ages, boomer yelling at a cloud...

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Imo just watchibg the players in thenroom after that first postgame video was pretty telling.

Doesnt mean that Babs was the only issue at the time, but imo i think youd be bsrd pressed to argue there likely wasnt some degree of tension between roster vs coaching staff then

I think there was but everyone has been professional except for a few very subtle jabs so we'll likely never know the truth.

Even if he never lost the room, I'm still ecstatic he's gone.