News Article: Did Mike Babcock Almost Ruin the Toronto Maple Leafs?

[Spencer White]

It's been a while, but one question has been burning me since Mike Babcock was fired. Did Mike Babcock almost ruin the Toronto Maple Leafs?

I took a look at the "Marner Situation", the deals I think Mike Babcock influenced, and other players who were impacted by Babcock's coaching on his previous teams.

Wrote the article here, check it out if you want, and give me your thoughts!
https://www.overtimeheroics.net/ind...ation-did-mike-babcock-almost-ruin-the-leafs/
https://www.overtimeheroics.net/ind...ation-did-mike-babcock-almost-ruin-the-leafs/

Click to read more...

 

[lottster14]

No. Imo, he *helped* build them back up to a playoff level team, then he lost the team/team tuned him out near the end of his tenure because of his antics.

 

[Spencer White]

No. Imo, he *helped* build them back up to a playoff level team, then he lost the team/team tuned him out near the end of his tenure because of his antics.

In the article, I mostly attribute the contract overpayments to him. My take is mostly that the players didn't take discounts due to their rocky relationship with the perceived long-term coach.

 

[Stephen]

The players took bigger salaries because they were incubated in a media environment that made them major celebrities relative to accomplishments. Mix in the Tavares contract and you have what we see today. Babcock lost control of the room this year, due to the aforementioned rock relationships but he really shouldn't be scapegoated for all that has not gone well in Toronto.

 

[DarkKnight]

No. And, I personally think it hilarious to actually blame the coach for the contracts.

 

[JaegerDice]

I dont think a coach can ruin a team unless you can directly trace a bad personnel move to them, be it players that were run out of town by the coach, or traded [particularly for worse players] because of a coach’s input or demands.

Beyond that, I think the worst a coach can do is ‘waste’ a team, because somebody better suited could have simply spent the same time getting more out.

Because any other issues are fixed simply by moving on from the coach.

 

[Maple Leaf]

No Dubas

 

[FraumBallard]

It's been a while, but one question has been burning me since Mike Babcock was fired. Did Mike Babcock almost ruin the Toronto Maple Leafs?

I took a look at the "Marner Situation", the deals I think Mike Babcock influenced, and other players who were impacted by Babcock's coaching on his previous teams.

Wrote the article here, check it out if you want, and give me your thoughts!
https://www.overtimeheroics.net/ind...ation-did-mike-babcock-almost-ruin-the-leafs/

Right idea.
Wrong guy.
Dubas IS ruining the Leafs.
With , amazingly , Shanahan cheering him on.
All he has to do is look how he played.
That is what we need more of.
What a couple of Morons.
They did very good with Babcock.
He's a great Coach.
Apparently too tough for kids.
He will Coach MEN for a long time to come in the NHL.

 

[Spencer White]

The players took bigger salaries because they were incubated in a media environment that made them major celebrities relative to accomplishments. Mix in the Tavares contract and you have what we see today. Babcock lost control of the room this year, due to the aforementioned rock relationships but he really shouldn't be scapegoated for all that has not gone well in Toronto.

That's definitely a factor, but I can't help but think that having a coach that had to travel to your home two years in a row to mend your relationship makes you less inclined to take a discount.

If you don't buy into the system as much, you're less inclined to take that hometown discount (@ marner)

 

[Spencer White]

Right idea.
Wrong guy.
Dubas IS ruining the Leafs.
With , amazingly , Shanahan cheering him on.
All he has to do is look how he played.
That is what we need more of.
What a couple of Morons.
They did very good with Babcock.
He's a great Coach.
Apparently too tough for kids.
He will Coach MEN for a long time to come in the NHL.

What do you say Dubas has done to ruin the Leafs?

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Babcock did nothing to influence contracts and likely helped by limiting ice time to players becoming RFA’s

That said, we don’t have a single bad contract. Willy has helped dispel groaners on his contract. Its a high quality player contract that is $6,900,000. We could add another contract of $5,600,000 and that would Match what Edmonton pays McDavid

So we get 31 goals from Nylander and Muzzins contract to McDavids 3 more goals.

I will take Nylander 3 fewer goals for Muzzin thanks

Matthews is the Modern era Ovechkin and his numbers the last four seasons stand up to Ovechkins last 4. Paying a premium for the leagues elite goal scorer is sound cap management. Tavares could have gotten much more and took a discount.

Marner produced at points per game levels of players making similar. I don’t think he had a great season but he produced. Needs to imprive his game, needs a better shot, needs to drive the net, needs to generate speed through the neutral zone much better. Kills penalties, 200 foot player, top end elite playmaker. Power play quaterback, it runs through him generally. Makes space, great for possession numbers, still not strong enough, skating has slipped.

I say he is worth his money or $893,000 to $1,383,000 max overpaid. Dominating in playoffs could justify his money.

Has to score more than 20 goals every year too. He needs to build a shot and body strength significantly going forward. Biggest fan but I understand his deficiencies. His plus’s negate weaknesses. Still developing and that should be understood.

We don’t have a single albatross contract. Many many other team have really bad contracts

 

[Metroid]

Apparently too tough for kids.
He will Coach MEN for a long time to come in the NHL.

Lol at needing to capitalize men.

 

[WTFMAN99]

What do you say Dubas has done to ruin the Leafs?

Marner and Matthews contracts are pretty awful. If they had gotten 8 years you could live with it, getting 6 and 5 years respectively has really narrowed their Cup window IMO.

Pissed away Kadri an asset for a poor return that hasn't helped this team.

Failed to address the back up goaltending situation in a proper amount of time

 

[TheTotalPackage]

No. I do think he had a grand vision for this group and was going to do his best to take it there. Average start to this year and all.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

He just wasn't a good coach and didn't help the team anywhere near the extent he believed he would. I don't think he deserves all of the blame though

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

No. I do think he had a grand vision for this group and was going to do his best to take it there. Average start to this year and all.

The leafs were 25th in the league when he was fired. Calling that average is extremely generous

 

[Spencer White]

Marner and Matthews contracts are pretty awful. If they had gotten 8 years you could live with it, getting 6 and 5 years respectively has really narrowed their Cup window IMO.

Pissed away Kadri an asset for a poor return that hasn't helped this team.

Failed to address the back up goaltending situation in a proper amount of time

Feel like you're underrating Kerfoot here...

Who would you rather have Dubas bring in earlier in the season? The price wasn't right, the options weren't there...

 

[lottster14]

He just wasn't a good coach and didn't help the team anywhere near the extent he believed he would. I don't think he deserves all of the blame though

He is still a pretty good coach. His style just isn't fit for young, very good rookies coming into the league with pressure and attention on them. He kept players in his dog house, no adjustments etc and they tuned him out

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Marner and Matthews contracts are pretty awful. If they had gotten 8 years you could live with it, getting 6 and 5 years respectively has really narrowed their Cup window IMO.

Pissed away Kadri an asset for a poor return that hasn't helped this team.

Failed to address the back up goaltending situation in a proper amount of time

I think if people realize and accept that we fail much more than succeed in life and embrace mediocrity as the normal that it is. Then the room it will open for enjoyment would be substantial.

Liked Kadri, don’t like Kerfoot ir Barrie.

Focusing on the positives of the Leafs would blow the negatives associated with the team out the water.

Still need improving like usual

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

No, he was a benefit to the team. He and Dubas don’t share the same vision so he had to go but let’s not pretend he was useless.

In 2016 Buffalo and Toronto were in a similar place, Babcock helped us from still being a similar place. We both had great prospects and a number one pick but bad coaching just crippled Buffalo.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Feel like you're underrating Kerfoot here...

Who would you rather have Dubas bring in earlier in the season? The price wasn't right, the options weren't there...

Kerfoot hasn't been a good fit with this team because he's exactly the same type of player as most of the team.

I would have rather kept Kadri to be honest because he brings more than either of these 2 players.

Barrie is walking and Kerfoot isn't better.

Now Dubas is looking for a RHD with term....that is exactly what he should have received for Kadri. Instead he managed to acquire a downgrade at 3C and a 1 year rental in Barrie. Barrie also plays pretty much exactly the way we do not need on this team. Rielly can run things offensively just fine for us. Sandin likely can in the future as well. We needed a more reliable defensive guy to come in. A right handed Muzzin essentially.

I think if people realize and accept that we fail much more than succeed in life and embrace mediocrity as the normal that it is. Then the room it will open for enjoyment would be substantial.

Liked Kadri, don’t like Kerfoot ir Barrie.

Focusing on the positives of the Leafs would blow the negatives associated with the team out the water.

Still need improving like usual

I just call it like I see it. I think Dubas has been pretty bad at his job so far.

I feel for the most part when I have that conversation with people it is either they hate him or the opposite, you can't say a thing against the guy because he seems to have blind defending him.

He has a couple of good moves but overall, I feel this team has gotten further from a championship, not closer under him.

 

[hotpaws]

The contracts are all in Dubas , it started by overpaying Tavares then it snowballed .

the agents and players all know Dubie is a weak bitch as evidenced by him needing to have Shanny fly in to fire Babs as well as to do the media conference while he hid under his bed

 

[SlpLessInMuskoka18]

I don't think JT was an over-pay. I just wish we hadn't got him before our other guys were locked in and signed.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Kerfoot hasn't been a good fit with this team because he's exactly the same type of player as most of the team.

I would have rather kept Kadri to be honest because he brings more than either of these 2 players.

Barrie is walking and Kerfoot isn't better.

Now Dubas is looking for a RHD with term....that is exactly what he should have received for Kadri. Instead he managed to acquire a downgrade at 3C and a 1 year rental in Barrie. Barrie also plays pretty much exactly the way we do not need on this team. Rielly can run things offensively just fine for us. Sandin likely can in the future as well. We needed a more reliable defensive guy to come in. A right handed Muzzin essentially.



I just call it like I see it. I think Dubas has been pretty bad at his job so far.

I feel for the most part when I have that conversation with people it is either they hate him or the opposite, you can't say a thing against the guy because he seems to have blind defending him.

He has a couple of good moves but overall, I feel this team has gotten further from a championship, not closer under him.

well unfortunately for your point of view he can’t be judged on if he is getting closer or further from a championship with playoffs and season potentially gone.

You can feel that but i will say you get back what you put out there. Listening without adding is a better approach to learning views that will differ from yours.

Here on the boards we just let rip in a polite way mostly but we let go. In person most people are more courteous and less confrontational generally.

Dubas has checked all the boxes posters said he couldn’t in managing the cap to sign all his star RFA’s and moved some extensive cap hits from the teams this off season.

Drafted players that are now considered draft steals. Signed Mikheyev. Made some good trades in Muzzin,Campbell and Clifford.

Blew it on the Kadri trade but at the time the trade was viewed with optimism on here.

Extended to much faith in hutch.

Fired Babcock possible 23 games to late, because he had lost the room long before that going back to mid 2018/19 season and the drop in play under him was obvious.

I understand he has had some decision issues. Who wouldn’t. The body of work overall has been excellent. So i listed issues and successes and unless i missed something i believe he has dobe a good job.

 

[FraumBallard]

What do you say Dubas has done to ruin the Leafs?

All offence.
Way too soft.
He was gifted a team with extraordinary offensive talent.
Fill in the holes with hard nosed workers with skill.
He has went almost exclusively with skill.
Huge mistake or we wouldn't be life and death for the playoffs.
Especially when you look how well Babcock did without his preferred roster of workers.
Eg - Hyman/Clifford.
Good thread/post and question.
We may disagree but I respect your opinion.