News Article: Did Mike Babcock Almost Ruin the Toronto Maple Leafs?

[JT AM da real deal]

Folks we have bigger fish to fry right now. Mr Babs got his golden handshake. He has done some great things. The team decided to go in a different direction. I personally was not a Babs fan for the team we assembled. My hope is we still have playoffs and award a Cup this year but I fear we are done.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Process.
B2b 100 points with Babcock.
6 games with Wsh ( 5 O.T. )
2 game 7 with Boston.
And life or death for playoffs tracking well below 100 points.
That ain't process.
That ain't progress.
That's thanks for nothing.
That's good luck at the Spreadsheet factory.

I points percentaged out Leafs,Columbus,Carolina and the Islanders and we were all below 100 pts. Which is going off what they averaged per game to this point. Lots of good teams in the western conference were under 100 points for this season also. I think this year that being under 100 points indicates you are still a very good team. Edit: they all came out at 95 to 97 point range approximately

 

[biotk]

Scotty Bowman.
The kids pouted and Babcock ( a great Coach ) got fired.
Shame on the kids.
Shows a real lack of Character.
70s Habs did not like Bowman.
At all.
They were pretty successful.
He didn't cater to Children like Wonder Boy does.

Bowman turned good teams into great teams and won 9 Cups. Babcock managed one cup coaching a Detroit team that should have one more.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

What evidence are you using to conclude he “lost the room?”

Do you seriously intend to try injecting the idea that Babcock had the room!

 

[hotpaws]

Bowman turned good teams into great teams and won 9 Cups. Babcock managed one cup coaching a Detroit team that should have one more.

Bowman was a heck of coach but those Montreal teams were stacked and Pitt had already won a cup under Johnson and couldn't stand Bowman

Det also was loaded so i have no idea why'd you think the teams he coached were just good .

 

[biotk]

cool story but you ignored a few things while you were trying to shift the blame away from Dubas and unto Babs

- Rielly and Kadri had no issues signing reasonable and some would say team friendly deals while Babs was coach

- Nylander's biggest fear was that he was going to get traded and why would he fear that if he loathed playing for Babcock

- JT played for Babs in multiple tourneys and still signed here

basically M and M looked at what JT signed for and said we're better than him so why should we accept less

Yawn. Neither Rielly or Kadri signed team friendly deals at the time. They had also only been coached by him for a year during a time when the team was starting to rebuild. Players will accept assholes as coaches if they think that coach will take them to the cup. Tavares had played for Babcock during two tournaments on stacked teams. Are people still seriously delusional enough to think that is in any way similar to playing under a coach long-term?

Babcock's problem is that he had the asshole part but not the competent coach part. He got away with both because his stacked teams in the past left people not recognizing his incompentence until the last two playoffs, and because of the general cone of silence in the NHL that stops almost all players from speaking out when abuse is occurring.

Players liked their teammates and wanted to continue playing together. They hated the coach, a coach they felt was going to continue coaching no matter how incompetent he showed himself to be. They therefore would not sign for anything other than an overpayment. This should have been obvious during the summer of 2018 when none of them signed and Marner could certainly not have made the case that he was better than JT at the time.

 

[Mess]

I was just browsing through the 100 year history books of the Toronto Maple Leafs, and low and behold to my surprise the coach the holds the record for the most wins and points in a single season is the same one being accused of almost ruining the Leafs.

If a coach is delivering 100 point season, should that be viewed as a negative or a positive?

 

[biotk]

Bowman was a heck of coach but those Montreal teams were stacked and Pitt had already won a cup under Johnson and couldn't stand Bowman

Det also was loaded so i have no idea why'd you think the teams he coached were just good .

Bowman took a Sabres team that had finished with 88 points and a 3.28 GAA the year before to a 79/80 Sabres team that had 110 points and allowed 33 fewer goals than any other team. They also finished ahead of the Canadiens - who had won the previous 4 Cups (under Bowman and with a 48-10 playoff record) but despite having a still stacked team lost to the North Stars in the second round without Bowman.

 

[biotk]

and you'll move on to pimping the new GM while doing a 180 and ripping on the Dube

You don't a single f***ing clue what I will do.

 

[Pookie]

Do you seriously intend to try injecting the idea that Babcock had the room!

What is one basing their evidence on that he lost the room?

 

[hotpaws]

Bowman took a Sabres team that had finished with 88 points and a 3.28 GAA the year before to a 79/80 Sabres team that had 110 points and allowed 33 fewer goals than any other team. They also finished ahead of the Canadiens - who had won the previous 4 Cups (under Bowman and with a 48-10 playoff record) but despite having a still stacked team lost to the North Stars in the second round without Bowman.

didn't say he wasn't a great coach , i said he was and he also coached great teams so i don't get your point

 

[Wafflewhipper]

What is one basing their evidence on that he lost the room?

I can only speak for myself but when Komarov had to hold Matt Martin back from punching him out for what he did to Marner indicates someone had enough of him. Then he sat him and had him traded. Martin was stand up, better liked guy in the room.

Yeahthey couldn’t stand him. The Spezza scratch game one in Ottawa and the insult to spezza as a player that he needed more reps.

I know lots more if you want. Now you tell me how they respected them pr!ckshot instances from that piece or work Scabcock

Hey its well reported the kind of person he was to people.

 

[biotk]

didn't say he wasn't a great coach , i said he was and he also coached great teams so i don't get your point

I said that Bowman turned good teams into great teams - which is what he did. Bowman won 9 Cups. Babcock never turned a good team into a great one. He won one cup - despite having a team with Lidstrom, Dats, Zets etc. That team should have easily won more than a single cup and probably would have under most other NHL level coaches.

 

[hotpaws]

You don't a single f***ing clue what I will do.

after 10 years on this board i know exactly from experience what a type of poster like you will do

but don't sweat it , your a good poster who just wants to believe your team is being run by a competent GM and that seems to be why your making excuses for him

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I can only speak for myself but when Komarov had to hold Matt Martin back from punching him out for what he did to Marner indicates someone had enough of him. Then he sat him and had him traded. Martin was stand up, better liked guy in the room.

Yeahthey couldn’t stand him. The Spezza scratch game one in Ottawa and the insult to spezza as a player that he needed more reps.

I know lots more if you want. Now you tell me how they respected them pr!ckshot instances from that piece or work Scabcock

Hey its well reported the kind of person he was to people.

Most people were not aware how bad da Toronto guys hated Babs in da end. And it wasn't just Matt. Paul lost it on Babs too as I told I you guys well before things went public. You guys all told me it was based on his play why he went to 4th line. And I told you guys it had nothing to do his his play. But even now the full story has not been told yet. To get da answer all reporters would have to do is ask Mitch why did Babs do that to you? But it won't come out because my guess is Babs signed an NDA and it is not in Mitch's best interest either.

But ultimately he lost da room when he lost JT and Zach on day 1 this season. JT had enough when Spezza was benched. From then on it was only a matter of time really. Bottom line is even a great coach can't afford to go to war with his best players in today's CAP world.

 

[hotpaws]

I said that Bowman turned good teams into great teams - which is what he did. Bowman won 9 Cups. Babcock never turned a good team into a great one. He won one cup - despite having a team with Lidstrom, Dats, Zets etc. That team should have easily won more than a single cup and probably would have under most other NHL level coaches.

Montreal was a great team , Pitt was also a great team who had won a cup the year before he got there and the Wings were a great team as well and saying this doesn't diminish the job Bowman did with those teams .

Babs is a good coach but he's stubborn and arrogant and that's held him back , he wants to win in way that people talk about his coaching like he did with team Canada which easily could have blown teams away if they were allowed to play a more offensive style but then no one would have talked about Babs . Babs should have had more success with the wings but his flaws held that team back .

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Most people were not aware how bad da Toronto guys hated Babs in da end. And it wasn't just Matt. Paul lost it on Babs too as I told I you guys well before things went public. You guys all told me it was based on his play why he went to 4th line. And I told you guys it had nothing to do his his play. But even now the full story has not been told yet. To get da answer all reporters would have to do is ask Mitch why did Babs do that to you? But it won't come out because my guess is Babs signed an NDA and it is not in Mitch's best interest either.

But ultimately he lost da room when he lost JT and Zach on day 1 this season. JT had enough when Spezza was benched. From then on it was only a matter of time really. Bottom line is even a great coach can't afford to go to war with his best players in today's CAP world.

I never agreed with him playing Fourth line. You guy’s doesn’t include me. He whined after not getting his defenseman Hanafin in the draft. That was his way of saying F$#@ you to Hunter at the time. Badcock was a resentment type person. Thats not leadership. Its actually the opposite direction of it for me.

Marner was a target of his and I’m glad uncle Leo held Martin back because karma will take care of that rat coach. I didn’t like Marner with Jvr and Bozak either. It should have been Matthews winger especially at that time with Hyman. He wouldn’t do it because he hated Marner.

The mystery of that is no more for me as to why Matthews and Marner weren’t on the same line.

 

[81Leafs50]

It's been a while, but one question has been burning me since Mike Babcock was fired. Did Mike Babcock almost ruin the Toronto Maple Leafs?

I took a look at the "Marner Situation", the deals I think Mike Babcock influenced, and other players who were impacted by Babcock's coaching on his previous teams.

Wrote the article here, check it out if you want, and give me your thoughts!
https://www.overtimeheroics.net/ind...ation-did-mike-babcock-almost-ruin-the-leafs/

No. Mike Babcock did not ruin the Maple Leafs. He praised Zach Hyman and wanted more players like him. You all laughed and made jokes. But time has made more than proven why Babs thought like that.

Leafs need way more Hyman and way less Marner. Meaning more hard working low payed stars with heart and determination.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

No. Mike Babcock did not ruin the Maple Leafs. He praised Zach Hyman and wanted more players like him. You all laughed and made jokes. But time has made more than proven why Babs thought like that.

Leafs need way more Hyman and way less Marner. Meaning more hard working low payed stars with heart and determination.

Are you sure

 

[81Leafs50]

Are you sure

Yes, yes I am.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

What evidence are you using to conclude he “lost the room?”

Several players made comments immediately after he was fired that Keefe keys them play more creative, etc. Nothing concrete, just veiled jabs. Shanahan with similar jabs last week. Add that to the trips Babcock had to make before last season to calm Matthews and Andersen and I think there's enough evidence.

 

[biotk]

after 10 years on this board i know exactly from experience what a type of poster like you will do

but don't sweat it , your a good poster who just wants to believe your team is being run by a competent GM and that seems to be why your making excuses for him

If I simply want to believe that my team is being run by a competent GM then why didn't I think that was the case when the team was being run by Lou? Then why did I think that Babcock should have been fired more than a year and a half before he was (and felt he was the wrong coach for the team before that) and heavily criticized Dubas for not doing so? Then why did I give Dubas an F- at the trade deadline? Then why did I heavily criticize Dubas for going against his own stated development philosophy this season with both Sandin and Liljegren (and was about the only one to do so)? Then why have I repeatedly said starting on the day Matthews signed (and it was only made worse when Marner signed) that this team has essentially no chance of winning the cup as long as their stars are taking up that much of the cap? Then why have I said repeatedly that this team needs more grit and toughness as well as players who are annoying to play against (Manson, Risto, Dillon on D, forwards like Johan Larsson - who will be a UFA this summer - Leivo will also be a UFA - and I want him to return, although not annoying to play against, he does bring qualities the team lacks), which seems to go against Dubas' philosophy? I am also just as much a Sabres fan and I don't think that team is being run by a competent GM.

I blame the contract demands of the star players on Babcock because I have felt that he created an environment where players hated him so much that they had no interest in signing reasonable contracts. I don't think that reasonable contracts were in any way possible with the big three as long as Babcock was the coach and I said so while Lou was still the GM. That doesn't mean that I don't criticize Dubas for the things that I actually feel are his fault.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I was just browsing through the 100 year history books of the Toronto Maple Leafs, and low and behold to my surprise the coach the holds the record for the most wins and points in a single season is the same one being accused of almost ruining the Leafs.

If a coach is delivering 100 point season, should that be viewed as a negative or a positive?

I’ll take a Pat Quinn over Babcock every day. Good person to his players or a bad person to his players. He was negative,Quinn was positive. Quinn had more success so i had lots of points and went out first round well, not buying it

Quinn’s players would jump through a wall for him. That matters and his success was better

 

[Big Muddy]

The contracts are all in Dubas , it started by overpaying Tavares then it snowballed .

the agents and players all know Dubie is a weak bitch as evidenced by him needing to have Shanny fly in to fire Babs as well as to do the media conference while he hid under his bed

I don't think JT was an over-pay. I just wish we hadn't got him before our other guys were locked in and signed.

I've wondered why we needed Tavares? Was scoring a problem that we needed JT?

Seems like we needed a RD a lot more.

Seeing JT get his big $11 m contract sent the wrong signal I think when we had to sign our big three to their new contracts imho. Barrie will be gone, Kadri already is, and we still need a good RD. Oh well.

 

[Beaumaris]

The guy who hired Babcock,and Dubas,is the person to blame imo.