News Article: Did Mike Babcock Almost Ruin the Toronto Maple Leafs?

[IPS]

Imo just watchibg the players in thenroom after that first postgame video was pretty telling.

Doesnt mean that Babs was the only issue at the time, but imo i think youd be bsrd pressed to argue there likely wasnt some degree of tension between roster vs coaching staff then

It really is funny how short the memories can be around here.

Despite the insane injury issues that plagued the Leafs this season Keefe got everything right back on track by getting the team back on a 100+ point pace. The team was going south at an alarming rate under Babcock (who should have been fired in the offseason). Honestly can't believe the people around here yearning for him.

 

[Pookie]

It really is funny how short the memories can be around here.

Despite the insane injury issues that plagued the Leafs this season Keefe got everything right back on track by getting the team back on a 100+ point pace. The team was going south at an alarming rate under Babcock (who should have been fired in the offseason). Honestly can't believe the people around here yearning for him.

Babcock had injuries to deal with too.

That January to November stretch that everyone discusses the record at approx .500?


Jan 1st – 13th 5 games – Andersen (groin)
Jan 1st – Feb 16th 18 games – Ennis (Leg)
Jan 1st – 9th 3 games – Hyman (ankle)
Jan 23rd 1 game – Johnsson (leg)
Feb 19th – March 8 – 9 games – Kadri (concussion)
Feb 25th – April 4th – 16 games – Gardiner (back)
Feb 28th – April 1st – 15 games – Dermott (shoulder)
March 10 -16th 4 games – Kapanen (concussion)
March 17- 22 2 games – Gauthier (foot)
April 4th – 1 game – Kadri (undisclosed)
April 2-6 3 games Muzzin (illness)
April 6 – 1 game Hainsey (rest)
April 6 – 1 game Zaitsev (rest)
October 2nd – 27th 13 games Dermott (shoulder)
October 2nd – 27th 13 games Hyman (knee)
October 17th – 27 5 games Tavares (finger)
Nov 10th - Dec 4 - 12 games Marner (ankle)

 

[Todd03]

The only true person to blame for this mess is Dubass.
Bad Drafting, Bad trades and not fixing the real problems of this
team Toughness, grit, stay at home defense and most important
no HEART. Everybody on here seems to forget that under Babcock
the last two years have been over 100 points. Dubass really did
nothing to improve the defense then or now. This skill and speed will not
win a Stanley Cup is bullshit. Will not happen not when you have teams like Boston,
Saint Louis, Washington etc. Big, strong teams that like to hit and wear you down.

 

[FraumBallard]

I points percentaged out Leafs,Columbus,Carolina and the Islanders and we were all below 100 pts. Which is going off what they averaged per game to this point. Lots of good teams in the western conference were under 100 points for this season also. I think this year that being under 100 points indicates you are still a very good team. Edit: they all came out at 95 to 97 point range approximately

Logical.
And then the results.
All skewed now.

 

[FraumBallard]

I can’t wait to see how this ages, boomer yelling at a cloud...

Me too.
Im gonna be so correct.
Dubas makes it easy.
He is a Complete Moron.

 

[Maple Leaf]

This is the salary cap era
Winning is all about cap management
Someone please inform our general manager

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Logical.
And then the results.
All skewed now.

Yeah it sucks

 

[Pookie]

Well if Babcock almost ruined the team... let's take his worst stretch since the tank year and compare it to Keefe's last 23 games as well.

Both coaches had injuries to deal with. Babcock lost Marner, Tavares, Hyman and Dermott. Keefe has obviously had similar big names out of the line up. Babcock dealt with Hutchinson and Keefe had him too along with an improvement in Campbell.

All situations. All Scores.

Coach	GP	W	L	OTL	Points	CF%	FF%	SF%	GF%	xGF%	SCF%	SCGF%	HDCF%	MDCF%	LDCF%	SH%	SV%	PDO
Babcock	23	9	10	4	22	52.5	50.94	49.87	47.68	48.58	52.08	48	49.03	54.1	53.12	9.44	89.7	0.991
Keefe	23	11	9	3	25	50.49	50.22	50.6	48.87	52.15	52.56	44.86	50.97	53.64	48.48	9.02	90.34	0.994

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Very subtle differences in these underlying numbers.

Is Keefe on a path to ruin too?

... silly question right?

/thread

 

[Beaumaris]

What are we blaming for here. We are 12 in the league after having a difficult year. Babcock is gone good riddance and if they go just playoffs and cancel the reg season we are in the playoffs. In fully healthy for the first time all season.

Nothing to blame for. Unless you assume blame is a prerequisite. I don’t. If deficiencies get fixed then it was a rough patch. The fair time frame due date to fix little things hasn’t arrived. I’ll reserve opinion right now and just evaluate

I’ve been listening to sob stories like this for just about 50 years now.

 

[pucksakes666]

Neglecting the need to draft D men for years is catching up to. Sorry but franchise no.1 D men almost never hit the market.

 

[lottster14]

Did he ruin the Maple Leafs?

Is this the Maple Leafs that picked first over all? The same Leafs who under Babcock set a franchise record for points a few short years after that 1st over all pick?

Right, he just lost the room. That unlikely run to game 6 against the presidents trophy winning Capitals in 2017 was the most excited and hopeful this fan base has felt in a long time. After 2018's first round exit, things slowly went down hill for babcock

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Neglecting the need to draft D men for years is catching up to. Sorry but franchise no.1 D men almost never hit the market.

Sandin and Dermy will turn out to be GREAT picks. But we will have to wait another 3-5 years for them both to be GREAT. I fear Leaf fans have never had patience to properly let team develop an elite dman.

So it is easy to see a d*mn good one in Muzzy but folks it took quite a few years of development to get there and we are seeing him near da end. Maybe the trick is to trade guys for 2 more established Muzzy's BUT guess what the CAP will NOT allow it. We can't do it with $$$ spent up front.

Here is the b*ll breaker by time our defense is elite with Rielly Sandin Dermy and Lily our forwards will be long gone. And we will have a team with most of its $$$ on the backend but no scoring. and we will likely have a top tier goalie by then too. So we will be the exact opposite team we have now in 5 years.

 

[ToneDog]

Well if Babcock almost ruined the team... let's take his worst stretch since the tank year and compare it to Keefe's last 23 games as well.

Both coaches had injuries to deal with. Babcock lost Marner, Tavares, Hyman and Dermott. Keefe has obviously had similar big names out of the line up. Babcock dealt with Hutchinson and Keefe had him too along with an improvement in Campbell.

All situations. All Scores.

Coach	GP	W	L	OTL	Points	CF%	FF%	SF%	GF%	xGF%	SCF%	SCGF%	HDCF%	MDCF%	LDCF%	SH%	SV%	PDO
Babcock	23	9	10	4	22	52.5	50.94	49.87	47.68	48.58	52.08	48	49.03	54.1	53.12	9.44	89.7	0.991
Keefe	23	11	9	3	25	50.49	50.22	50.6	48.87	52.15	52.56	44.86	50.97	53.64	48.48	9.02	90.34	0.994

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Very subtle differences in these underlying numbers.

Is Keefe on a path to ruin too?

... silly question right?

/thread

Most players had checked out on Babs while 34, 88 and 94 have been better under Keefe. You can debate all you want Babs vs Keefe but it should now be clear that the coach is not the problem with this team.

 

[ULF_55]

As the saying goes, coaches have a shelf life, some are like a loaf of bread, others a tin of tuna.

When they're way beyond their due date you really shouldn't trust them.

 

[FraumBallard]

It really is funny how short the memories can be around here.

Despite the insane injury issues that plagued the Leafs this season Keefe got everything right back on track by getting the team back on a 100+ point pace. The team was going south at an alarming rate under Babcock (who should have been fired in the offseason). Honestly can't believe the people around here yearning for him.

Great Coach.
The kids pouted.
Keefe won't coach in the NHL anywhere near as long as Babcock.
This possession thing with 8 4ft backpasses just to exit your zone is gonna wear very thin real quick.
Other teams have them figured out already.
Very predictable.
And boring.
He's an AHL Coach.
Maybe.

 

[Pookie]

Most players had checked out on Babs while 34, 88 and 94 have been better under Keefe. You can debate all you want Babs vs Keefe but it should now be clear that the coach is not the problem with this team.

Agreed.

You might remember me from such Films as "The Theory of Everything: Talent, Talent Performing and Health Matters" or "Inglorious Basterds: Don't Blame the Coach, They Don't Impact Results That Much"

Not starting on time. Motivation. Not working hard. All of it. On the players.

 

[4thline]

"Both had injuries and ended up with similar results"

78
vs
89 points pace.

Super similar.

6 of 23 games missing Tavares and 5 of 23 missing Marner from a stacked offense, zero games concurrently.
vs
22 of 23 games missing Rielly, 8 of 23 missing Muzzin, 14 of Ceci. 4 missing all 3, 7 missing Muzzin + Rielly, 10 missing Rielly + Ceci, from a team that's weakest on D.

Subtle differences. Super similar.

 

[IPS]

"Both had injuries and ended up with similar results"

78
vs
89 points pace.

Super similar.

6 of 23 games missing Tavares and 5 of 23 missing Marner from a stacked offense, zero games concurrently.
vs
22 of 23 games missing Rielly, 8 of 23 missing Muzzin, 14 of Ceci. 4 missing all 3, 7 missing Muzzin + Rielly, 10 missing Rielly + Ceci, from a team that's weakest on D.

Subtle differences. Super similar.

Yup, looks pretty "similar" to me.

Same poster who said Kadri and Bozak were "similar" players too. They both play on different teams now - equal context, and Kadri has outperformed him significantly.

I'm inclined to believe he just doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I’ve been listening to sob stories like this for just about 50 years now.

Just an angry ole person now eh

 

[JayfromNB1219]

Right idea.
Wrong guy.
Dubas IS ruining the Leafs.
With , amazingly , Shanahan cheering him on.
All he has to do is look how he played.
That is what we need more of.
What a couple of Morons.
They did very good with Babcock.
He's a great Coach.
Apparently too tough for kids.
He will Coach MEN for a long time to come in the NHL.

He will be lucky to get another coaching job after all of the antics came out...let's be serious here, he is basically toxic at this point and will most likely be treated as such

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Well if Babcock almost ruined the team... let's take his worst stretch since the tank year and compare it to Keefe's last 23 games as well.

Both coaches had injuries to deal with. Babcock lost Marner, Tavares, Hyman and Dermott. Keefe has obviously had similar big names out of the line up. Babcock dealt with Hutchinson and Keefe had him too along with an improvement in Campbell.

All situations. All Scores.

Coach	GP	W	L	OTL	Points	CF%	FF%	SF%	GF%	xGF%	SCF%	SCGF%	HDCF%	MDCF%	LDCF%	SH%	SV%	PDO
Babcock	23	9	10	4	22	52.5	50.94	49.87	47.68	48.58	52.08	48	49.03	54.1	53.12	9.44	89.7	0.991
Keefe	23	11	9	3	25	50.49	50.22	50.6	48.87	52.15	52.56	44.86	50.97	53.64	48.48	9.02	90.34	0.994

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Very subtle differences in these underlying numbers.

Is Keefe on a path to ruin too?

... silly question right?

/thread

Pick your poison dude. You are picking a 23 up to game 69 for Keefe. Then you took Babcocks first 23. I think you forgot 23 games there dude. Don’t fit your sound bite though do they.

I don’t like posts like this as they are disingenuous and only speaking to posters egotistical side. So you are wrong. How about you post Badcocks record going back to last January to his firing or whatever date you need to go back to compare egual amounts of game. So that would be 47 games for keefe this season and add the last 24 games of last season under your hero there Mr congeniality himself Babcock.

Babcock was hated by fans and many previous players long before we got the real truth on him. He was bad since last Christmas and got canned like he should have. Stop sidewinding like that man, why would you do that!

 

[JayfromNB1219]

Mike Babcock will likely be hired again in the next few years and you're going to have to deal with it.

I dunno, he's toxic at this point if you believe any of the stories...3+ years before a team is willing to gamble on him is my guess

 

[4thline]

Yup, looks pretty "similar" to me.

Also similar:
a 78 point pace valley as part of an 86 point pace 65 game stretch
an 89 point pace valley as part of an 102 point pace 46 game stretch

Yup, Keefe's "comparable" 23 game slump with the defense absolutely decimated by injury paces higher than Bab's had the team performing over the last 3/4's of a season.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

He will be lucky to get another coaching job after all of the antics came out...let's be serious here, he is basically toxic at this point and will most likely be treated as such

It was a lot easier to control a pro team as a coach 10+ years ago then it is today. Today you have a ton of wealthy players on contract. Before we had wealthy players but guys could be cut and/or sent down. So da coach had that respect. And coaches often used that power like Scotty to control da room. Totally different eras in coaching. Back in da day you had control. Today not so much.

Babs tried to get everyone into his line of coaching thinking. And it was one of big reasons he fought for Marleau. But it backfired. Everyone knew at camp in year 2 that Marleau was done. Babs did too but he had put himself far out there to get him signed for 3 years that he used up a ton of his reputational capital in the org. And if he admitted defeat he was done right then. And keep in mind he had pissed off Willy to point he held out. And even much worse with Mitch/Martin incidents. and then this year on opening night after he knew Spezza had a huge party there for game he sat him. Well guess what it was not just Spezza's mom and dad it was da who's who in Toronto hockey who were there for/with him even guy who coached JT too. Da sh*t went straight direct to Shanny as even 1 guy was Shanny's assistant coach too from days past. There was now a ton of heat on this guy from Saska.... He had effectively ticked off the hockey power brokers in Toronto. Shanny had a lot of respect for Babs and I am sure it ate at him. In da end Babs did it all to himself. If he opened up to new ways of thinking and loosen up some control he might have been fine. Bottom line is team personnel could not deliver successful Bab's hockey.

 

[Pookie]

Pick your poison dude. You are picking a 23 up to game 69 for Keefe. Then you took Babcocks first 23. I think you forgot 23 games there dude. Don’t fit your sound bite though do they.

Didn’t you post , or like posts, that talked about Babcock’s recording in a Jan -Nov calendar year as a reason to fire him?

Last 23 under Keefe shows where we are headed as a trend.

And remember my conclusion... that’s it’s silly? I don’t put stock in either record.

If a team is ruined because the players play selfishly, aren’t motivated, have slow starts, aren’t prepared, take holidays during games and get outworked.... that’s what we have seen over the last couple months.

Babcock was hated by fans and many previous players long before we got the real truth on him.

Fans rejoiced when Pat Burns exited. I don’t put any stock in those opinions.

Sure. Some players hated Babcock. And sure. Some players liked him and signed here because of him.

I accept that both realities can coexist. You?