DANIEL SEDIN AND HENRIK SEDIN | Dear Vancouver,

[BobbyJazzLegs]

20 year old Cogburn would have accepted high pay for a job, no matter how low the odds of me being the tops in my field, or odds of moving up within the company. He has the energy to do every thing, and when it comes down to it, is looking to make a name for himself.

30 year old Cogburn has already accepted lower pay for the right fit, and even though he is unattached and unburdened with children, may not accept a higher paying job with better odds of advancement if it required a big move, or other huge flaws, as he has been rewarded for excellent work and is interested to see where his company will go.

40 year old Cogburn is not moving from the city that 20 and 30 year old Cogburn created a life in, at least not for "possible" advancement with a rival company, across the country, when he is already an award winning star in his field at his company. It no longer matters someone in the same industry is offering the same pay, as he has earned his peers respect and advanced within his company. He wants what is best for his family.

I love they wrote our their thoughts and feelings and gave us some insight as to why it is so important to them. I really hope we can give them a proper final season, whether or not its next year or later on.

Great post.

 

[F A N]

My issue is that they are not staying in Vancouver because they have deep love of the Canucks and their fans and are completely driven to win only in Vancouver. I think they don't want to move on because they don't want to disrupt their lifestyle. They are not interested in moving their kids from their schools. They don't want to worry about starting up in a new community.

They are happy just plodding along, collecting their paycheques and losing in Vancouver. There is something off putting to me about that.

I've said this before, it's important to understand where the Sedins are coming from. Like many players from Sweden, they grew up cheering for one team and end up playing for them. MODO is the only hockey team in Sweden they will play for. That was the same for Naslund and Forsberg. Sundin had a hard time playing for another team besides the Leafs even if it meant a chance at the Cup. The only time upper level Swedish hockey players tend to switch team is if their home team gets relegated.

And even if the decision is 100% for family reasons, who cares. There is something off putting to me that someone would have something nasty to say about a hockey player who puts his family first.

 

[Knight53]

This is cute, now for the love of god please retire after this season if you don't want to be traded and hopefully a full-scale rebuild can start.

 

[Huggy43]

I'm okay with them staying because they have earned the right to do so. They are thinking about more than just themselves & aren't being selfish. I think the argument was of winning at all costs is ridiculous.

When you think about it; being a pro athlete is rather selfish. While you can earn unreal money that will set up your family for generations, you have to think about other aspects in life. You & you alone are the one who gets to live out YOUR dream, if you have a loved one or kids it's their lives that get put on hold until you retire.
You leave your spouse at home (alone) for sporadic periods of time & when you are back you have limited free time together. Some spouses are also taking care of the children, ones you had together & probably not having much of a life outside of that.
If you do have children you are also uprooting their lives constantly because you want to continue living YOUR dream.
It's a bit different for the Twins though, they are at the age where they are thinking about their lives, not their careers.

After reading that Players Tribune article I come away thinking what I've always thought about the Twins:
They are selfless individuals
& They are people who deserve far more respect than they get (this thread is a good example).


Y2k:
I know you speak your mind & while I greatly appreciate that, especially at the town hall meetings... I have to ask: would you say what you've said in this thread to the Twins face?

 

[ChilliBilly]

This is cute, now for the love of god please retire after this season if you don't want to be traded and hopefully a full-scale rebuild can start.

I could quote 7 - 8 mindless comments on here who have missed the point of their letter. This one fits in well ...

1. The point is they like Vancouver and plan to play all of their NHL games here. How is this a bad thing?

2. People on here keep suggesting some of their loyalty should include waiving a NMC clause to allow VCR to get some assets for them. I can not think of a more ignorant viewpoint.

3. The are preventing a rebuild? It's their fault we didn't finish worse than 29th last year? And 28th the year before? Or are they taking up roster spots? How dumb can fans get. The Canucks finally traded some assets for futures. Happy to see it. But the Sedins are NOT preventing a rebuild.

4. I actually think the Canucks were better than they ended up in the standings. It took a miracle for them to squeak into 29th last year. In 2011 they managed to win all of the marginal games. Last year they were in most of the games, but managed to lose a lot of them.

5. I would be happy to see them play for another 5 years here. Aquaman wants to field a competitive team; they will help a team, but should not be first line players. Reduce their minutes recognize that they are getting older, but still can be valuable contributors.

6. We have 20 players that are borderline NHL'ers. They can be replaced through free agency or the waiver wire. Other than the twins, the only players that other teams would covet are Horvat and Tanev. Ericsson (sp is autocorrect) should have a better year. But way overpaid.

7. We have a few players in the system that should be good. Boeser Demo Petterssen Gaudette Juolevi etc. Hopefully regular NHL'ers. We have another 10 or so prospects that should provide 2 - 3 regular NHL'ers.

The Sedins have more than earned their paychecks, have been reliable steady players for the last 10 years. Intelligent and hard working. Nearly brought the Cup here. They can continue to be valuable assets to this team. I suspect we will have a better year than last year. Say end up about 20th. I am all in favor of letting them end their careers here, and play as long as they want, assuming they take a pay cut next year to about $2.5 - 3M.

 

[Canucker]

20 year old Cogburn would have accepted high pay for a job, no matter how low the odds of me being the tops in my field, or odds of moving up within the company. He has the energy to do every thing, and when it comes down to it, is looking to make a name for himself.

30 year old Cogburn has already accepted lower pay for the right fit, and even though he is unattached and unburdened with children, may not accept a higher paying job with better odds of advancement if it required a big move, or other huge flaws, as he has been rewarded for excellent work and is interested to see where his company will go.

40 year old Cogburn is not moving from the city that 20 and 30 year old Cogburn created a life in, at least not for "possible" advancement with a rival company, across the country, when he is already an award winning star in his field at his company. It no longer matters someone in the same industry is offering the same pay, as he has earned his peers respect and advanced within his company. He wants what is best for his family.

I love they wrote our their thoughts and feelings and gave us some insight as to why it is so important to them. I really hope we can give them a proper final season, whether or not its next year or later on.

I generally agree with the basis of this concept, BUT...would you, as a 40 year old Cogburn, move to a different City for 6 months to try and achieve a long sought after career/life achievement? Knowing that in 6 months (or less) that you could just move back home with no real negative effects. I know people will vary in their answers for different reasons, but if I were the one making that decision it would be a very simple one...I'd try to win.

 

[Street Hawk]

I could quote 7 - 8 mindless comments on here who have missed the point of their letter. This one fits in well ...

1. The point is they like Vancouver and plan to play all of their NHL games here. How is this a bad thing?

2. People on here keep suggesting some of their loyalty should include waiving a NMC clause to allow VCR to get some assets for them. I can not think of a more ignorant viewpoint.

3. The are preventing a rebuild? It's their fault we didn't finish worse than 29th last year? And 28th the year before? Or are they taking up roster spots? How dumb can fans get. The Canucks finally traded some assets for futures. Happy to see it. But the Sedins are NOT preventing a rebuild.

4. I actually think the Canucks were better than they ended up in the standings. It took a miracle for them to squeak into 29th last year. In 2011 they managed to win all of the marginal games. Last year they were in most of the games, but managed to lose a lot of them.

5. I would be happy to see them play for another 5 years here. Aquaman wants to field a competitive team; they will help a team, but should not be first line players. Reduce their minutes recognize that they are getting older, but still can be valuable contributors.

6. We have 20 players that are borderline NHL'ers. They can be replaced through free agency or the waiver wire. Other than the twins, the only players that other teams would covet are Horvat and Tanev. Ericsson (sp is autocorrect) should have a better year. But way overpaid.

7. We have a few players in the system that should be good. Boeser Demo Petterssen Gaudette Juolevi etc. Hopefully regular NHL'ers. We have another 10 or so prospects that should provide 2 - 3 regular NHL'ers.

The Sedins have more than earned their paychecks, have been reliable steady players for the last 10 years. Intelligent and hard working. Nearly brought the Cup here. They can continue to be valuable assets to this team. I suspect we will have a better year than last year. Say end up about 20th. I am all in favor of letting them end their careers here, and play as long as they want, assuming they take a pay cut next year to about $2.5 - 3M.

On your points:
1) No issue. They have NMC. So it's their call. No need to go any further. Just on management to ask 1 final time sometime in early 2018 just to see if they change their minds.
2) I think their value is minimal in a trade. Cap space, speed, PK, defence, style, are all factors that limit their return. I don't see them combined getting what E. Staal returned for Carolina and he was much easier to move with retention for $4.125 million at the TDL.
3) This is the big one for me only in terms of the moves that management has made, along with the comments of the twins and management about how they view the team. It always came across that the moves to acquire vets stemmed from providing the twins with a better environment rather than focus on acquiring younger assets. Just the way it has come across the past 3 seasons.
4) Canucks are what they are. Over 82 games, you are your record.
5) We completely differ here, which is fine. I personally hope this is their final year in Vancouver. It's time to start fresh. Plus, keeping them signals that the rebuild after 5 drafts is not progressing, along with showing how poor the vet additions have been if they can't shoulder the load that the declining Sedins have shouldered for leadership.
6) I don't think the twins are coveted. Individually, yes. But, combined no. Again, see #2. If they are that comfortable in Vancouver, I just don't see them adjusting to another team. Rangers and Habs could use Henrik, but I don't think they have a need for Daniel. And if they did have the assets to spare, why not upgrade the depth on D rather than pick up Daniel?
7) Agreed, the management has made too many bad decisions. McCann and a high 2nd for Gudbranson didn't make sense for the rebuild given the direction of the league with regards to speed and transition. Not being decisive early enough to move Hamhuis.

I think the twins earned their prior pay checks of $6.1 million per. So far on the $21 million that they have been paid for the past 3 years, I think their actual value was around $17-$18 million. $7 million year 1 for the 75 points, then $5.5 to $6 million for 58 points, then $4.5 to $5 million for last season at 47 points. But, I'm not shocked at the decline in production. They are slowing down, plus their style of play relies more on teammates to join the rush on D and finish.

Main point is that with NMC, it's their call. They have made it, so let's accept it. Doesn't matter if you agree with it or not. Management can't change it.

Why did this come out now? Simple, to head off the constant barrage of questions from Sept to Jan about their future. When we hit Feb 2018, then I can see it coming up until the twins say again that their decision is final and they won't be moved at the TDL.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

I'm fine with them sticking around. They've been great players and great leaders for the team and I truly believe they might get a bit of a second wind being our number two line this year. Plus they'll be better mentors for the young players than Sutter and Dorsett could ever be.

Regardless, even if they were open to being moved, I think working out a decent trade for them would be near impossible.

 

[Dana Murzyn]

If I were running the team, I’d trade the Sedins for Lucic and Dustin Brown, hire Messier and Avery as coaches, get Tim Thomas out of retirement, and win it all, because it would feel awesome, because winning is the only thing that matters, winning winning winning.

 

[Cogburn]

Great post.

I'm happy to see I wasn't way off base.

I generally agree with the basis of this concept, BUT...would you, as a 40 year old Cogburn, move to a different City for 6 months to try and achieve a long sought after career/life achievement? Knowing that in 6 months (or less) that you could just move back home with no real negative effects. I know people will vary in their answers for different reasons, but if I were the one making that decision it would be a very simple one...I'd try to win.

For a chance. If I, personally, was at that stage, as I am now, I'd pursue it. However, I don't have children, I haven't lived in Vancouver my whole life, and I haven't been approached by a firm in Tampa Bay, or Montreal, or New York. At the same time, I have been working for the same company since I was 18, and if I had permanent roots in the city, like a family, I don't think I could do 6 months away from them. My dream isn't a Stanley Cup though, my dream is a little more John Lennon-esque, and I think I could achieve that without chasing an accomplishment such as that.

 

[Little Psycho]

Drew Doughty is also 26, single, and doesn't live in LA full-time. Of course any young player in that situation will ok with being traded to a competing team. It's a little different when you're dealing with people in their 30s with school-age children.

This has been a garbage organization with no history and no tradition. The 2nd-best 'career Canuck' is Gary f'ing Lupul. Watching these great players retire as Canucks is far more important to me than MOAR DRAFT PICKZ!!! and I think their value to the team and community greatly exceeds the value of a 2nd rounder or whatever we'd get.

Random pop in but he got engaged to his long term girlfriend this summer.

 

[Zaddy91]

I see people throw this line out there all the time. What value is there in having the Sedins stay here?

What value do hall of fame players bring to a team?

Lol

 

[y2kcanucks]

What value do hall of fame players bring to a team?

Lol

Well firstly I think it's debatable that they're hall of famers. But more importantly: what do two old, 40ish point players at the end of their careers who admittedly don't have the ambition to win a Stanley Cup bring to a team that should be rebuilding? Serious question.

 

[MikeK]

I enjoyed the read. They've certainly earned that right. At this point in their careers I believe they are worth more to the Franchise and community than any long shot prospect or picks we might get in return.

If we were going to move them the time was 3 seasons ago when we could have rebuilt our team overnight. At this point, lets enjoy the time we have left and remember the good times they've brought us. I'm glad they will retire as Canucks. They are among the top 5 Canucks all time.

 

[VancouverFanInNYC]

I am a bit older now and have had my fair share of trials and tribulations in life, career and journey as a Canucks fan. Winning is important and so would be a Stanley Cup in my lifetime but it would be devoid of meaning if I wasn't so passionate a Canucks fan and followed the team all these years. I simply don't get the negativity from fans in this thread who are assuming the Sedins are being complacent because they don't want to win a championship. They want to win with meaning.

The Sedins are Canucks first and foremost and winning a championship in another city would mean less to them, as players, as leaders and as Vancouverites. This is home and the Canucks are their team, just like it is ours. For the fans here who claim winning is everything, then go follow Chicago or Pittsburgh or the flavor of the month. You could claim your team won the championship every year but what does it mean at the end of the day?

Although the Sedins could sign with one of these contending teams next year for a paycut and win a championship, what does it mean if it isn't your team and just a revolving destination where you are a hired gun. They are committed to Vancouver and winning for us. I think it was a commendable expression of their love for our city and I am grateful to have been their fans for these 15+ years. They have meant a lot to this team over these years and we should be privileged to know that being a Vancouver Canuck means so much to them too.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I am a bit older now and have had my fair share of trials and tribulations in life, career and journey as a Canucks fan. Winning is important and so would be a Stanley Cup in my lifetime but it would be devoid of meaning if I wasn't so passionate a Canucks fan and followed the team all these years. I simply don't get the negativity from fans in this thread who are assuming the Sedins are being complacent because they don't want to win a championship. They want to win with meaning.

The Sedins are Canucks first and foremost and winning a championship in another city would mean less to them, as players, as leaders and as Vancouverites. This is home and the Canucks are their team, just like it is ours. For the fans here who claim winning is everything, then go follow Chicago or Pittsburgh or the flavor of the month. You could claim your team won the championship every year but what does it mean at the end of the day?

Although the Sedins could sign with one of these contending teams next year for a paycut and win a championship, what does it mean if it isn't your team and just a revolving destination where you are a hired gun. They are committed to Vancouver and winning for us. I think it was a commendable expression of their love for our city and I am grateful to have been their fans for these 15+ years. They have meant a lot to this team over these years and we should be privileged to know that being a Vancouver Canuck means so much to them too.

What does it mean to win a Stanley Cup? It means you were part of the best team in the NHL for that season. It means your name is engraved on one of the oldest trophies in pro sports. It means you're part of that exclusive group of people who have a Stanley Cup ring. It's why players like Ray Bourque and Steve Larmer were willing to move on to different teams at the end of their careers to chase a Stanley Cup. Ray Bourque meant a lot to the City of Boston, and was a prominent member in the city. He took several "hometown" discounts to remain a Bruin throughout his career and yet even he still felt the hunger to win a Cup.

Here's a good article about Bourque looking back on winning the Stanley Cup: https://www.nhl.com/news/ray-bourque-celebrates-stanley-cup-anniversary/c-280915150

Notice there's nothing in it that suggests it meant anything less to him because he didn't do it as a Bruin. And having followed the NHL back then I can tell you that what's said in the article is true. Almost everyone in the hockey world was getting behind him and the Avalanche to get him that Cup. Even though Colorado had been a perennial powerhouse, and one of those teams you can say "bought" their cups in a pre-cap era, people still wanted to see him get a Cup. It that scene were Sakic hands him the Cup right away is a moment that will be replayed for decades to come.

I get what the Sedins are trying to say. They're grounded here because they've played here all their careers, not unlike Ray Bourque. But I strongly disagree with their attitude towards the game. If winning a championship is not your main priority then what are you doing still playing?

People will still disagree with me because, like I've said and I think it's been proven in this very thread, when it comes to anything that criticizes the Sedins or any disagreement about something the Sedins said or did, all logic goes out the window. The Sedins are treated like Gods on here as if they can do no wrong. They could probably Bertuzzi several senior citizens down Granville and people would find some way to defend them. It's gotten so ridiculous that in this thread someone is mocking the idea of winning. What's the point of playing the game, or supporting a team if you don't care about winning? Oh well, it's okay if we lose as long as we have a bunch of nice guys. Uh huh.

 

[Street Hawk]

I enjoyed the read. They've certainly earned that right. At this point in their careers I believe they are worth more to the Franchise and community than any long shot prospect or picks we might get in return.

If we were going to move them the time was 3 seasons ago when we could have rebuilt our team overnight. At this point, lets enjoy the time we have left and remember the good times they've brought us. I'm glad they will retire as Canucks. They are among the top 5 Canucks all time.

What was different about the twins 3 seasons ago in their thoughts on the team and desire to stay here?

The time to move the twins was before they signed their 4 year deals in Nov 2013. Once they out pen to paper they were going to retire as canucks.

Cause without the extension in Nov 2013 look at what happened in 2014. Lu demands out after the heritage classic. Then we all know that kesler wanted out. Had gillis not extended the twins so soon into the season, then you can move both of them at the tdl. But, gillis was canned this kesler remained until the end of th season. But the twins, their contract expired in 2014, so a move by that tdl needed to be made.

So, for me, they were never going to be moved once they signed their extension.

 

[vancityluongo]

Care to quote where I said that? You clearly either don't want to understand what I'm saying, or perhaps can't comprehend the meaning behind it, but I don't know how much clearer I can make this. A pro athlete's first priority should be to win. I'm not saying players who have more cups than others are better. I'm saying players who want to win are the type of players I want on my team.

It was already quoted but you keep adding to the rhetoric. When you say "A pro athlete's first priority should be to win" (see bolded above) you are clearly implying that the Sedins don't want to win. That's ****ing idiotic. They literally state that they want to win and also want it to be here, rather than taking the easy way out while also compromising their family life. Winning is not a mutually exclusive proposition from the other two factors, as unlikely as it is that it will happen here during the remainder of their careers. When you say "players who want to win are the type of players I want on my team" (again, see above bolded for where you said that), you are explicitly questioning the Sedins determination and attitude. This is not misconstruing your words in any way. That is simply a literal interpretation of your words, and they've been proven to be wrong for years.

Yup, you're deliberately misinterpreting me. All the while of furthering my point that a lot of people can't have a rational based discussion regarding the Sedins. Any hint of criticism and it becomes too emotional for some people. All rational thought goes out the window.

No, you're crying!

I never said those words. I said I want players who want to win. I liked Doughty's mentality where he wants to win. He has been very successful. Obviously talent has something to do with that, but in a league where there are a lot of talented players the drive to win is what separates the good from the great. Obviously there's more to it because you need a good team around you. I think that's what we saw with Kesler where he wanted to win and wanted out of this clown show. I don't blame him for that.

See the bolded is what Jim Benning and countless other old boys club GM's that you regularly bash think. I think you're wrong. There's not just more to it... a good team is the hard and fast separation between winning teams and losing team. This has already been mentioned, but funnily enough you maintain that line of thinking when defending Luongo, but use it as an argument against the Sedins. Your years of bias is showing.

If Doughty did not have two Stanley Cups to his name, he would be vindicated (like Kesler was and still is) for being a disloyal traitor. There is a ridiculous double standard in how people assess Cup winners and everyone else, and you're one of the biggest perpetrators.

Connor McDavid was a RFA so his options were limited. Again, furthering my point about all rational discussion being thrown out the window. You're also ignoring the fact that Edmonton is one of the favourites to win the Cup. And also the fact that every team is going to have players. It's just very odd to hear a player say that winning a league championship isn't their main priority.

You're ignoring that EVERY player in the NHL says that they want to win a championship, including the Sedins. Again, show us where they said they didn't? Not to mention, you were the one who originally brought up Cups as an argument, which thankfully you're at least trying to move away from.

When the day comes when Tom Brady is no longer an elite QB, just watch. He'll either retire or he'll be cut. They value winning. Not sentimental BS.

Again, if you value two nice guys who shake people's hands and smile, great. All the power to ya. Just don't criticize those of us who value winning over that.

So coming off of a Superbowl Brady is not going to be traded for a high value return and instead they'll allow him to continue playing until a mutually agreed upon exit can occur? Glad you're on the same page.

Just repeating the words "WINNING" means nothing. You conveniently skipped over answering what you think they would actually fetch on the trade market. Also conveniently did not address if you think some combination of Sedin replacements would actually make this team any better in either the short run or long run. Really, you've said nothing other than you want them off the team for a huge haul of assets which you know won't happen... so really you just want them off the team.

I'd like to continue engaging with you on this because it's at least a topic that could merit some discussion, unlike arguing against the flat earth equivalent Benning truthers... but maybe everyone else is right and you'll never get past your weird disdain of the best players in the history of the franchise you follow so closely. I've at least admit that some of what I'm saying comes from the perspective of being a fan of these players. Can you admit that yours are coming from the perspective of someone who has disliked them and bet against them (only to be proven wrong) for years? If so, then maybe there's something left to discuss.

Edit:

What does it mean to win a Stanley Cup? It means you were part of the best team in the NHL for that season. It means your name is engraved on one of the oldest trophies in pro sports. It means you're part of that exclusive group of people who have a Stanley Cup ring. It's why players like Ray Bourque and Steve Larmer were willing to move on to different teams at the end of their careers to chase a Stanley Cup. Ray Bourque meant a lot to the City of Boston, and was a prominent member in the city. He took several "hometown" discounts to remain a Bruin throughout his career and yet even he still felt the hunger to win a Cup.

Here's a good article about Bourque looking back on winning the Stanley Cup: https://www.nhl.com/news/ray-bourque-celebrates-stanley-cup-anniversary/c-280915150

Notice there's nothing in it that suggests it meant anything less to him because he didn't do it as a Bruin. And having followed the NHL back then I can tell you that what's said in the article is true. Almost everyone in the hockey world was getting behind him and the Avalanche to get him that Cup. Even though Colorado had been a perennial powerhouse, and one of those teams you can say "bought" their cups in a pre-cap era, people still wanted to see him get a Cup. It that scene were Sakic hands him the Cup right away is a moment that will be replayed for decades to come.

I get what the Sedins are trying to say. They're grounded here because they've played here all their careers, not unlike Ray Bourque. But I strongly disagree with their attitude towards the game. If winning a championship is not your main priority then what are you doing still playing?

People will still disagree with me because, like I've said and I think it's been proven in this very thread, when it comes to anything that criticizes the Sedins or any disagreement about something the Sedins said or did, all logic goes out the window. The Sedins are treated like Gods on here as if they can do no wrong. They could probably Bertuzzi several senior citizens down Granville and people would find some way to defend them. It's gotten so ridiculous that in this thread someone is mocking the idea of winning. What's the point of playing the game, or supporting a team if you don't care about winning? Oh well, it's okay if we lose as long as we have a bunch of nice guys. Uh huh.

Not everyone values things in the same linear terms. Obviously they feel that jumping ship to win a Cup on a contender is like jumping onto a bandwagon. What is so difficult to understand about that?

The quoted post said it best; if you value winning so much yourself, why don't you cheer for Pittsburgh every year? You again conveniently skimmed over that...

Nobody treats the Sedins like Gods; ridiculous strawman. You don't have a moderate position on them lol, no matter how much you try and frame everyone else as extreme. Fans of other teams have a general consensus that they're slam dunk HHOFers, yet you don't. Why?

 

[shortshorts]

Sport is tough. It takes a lot of things to go right for you to win it all. Especially true for a game like Hockey.

The Sedins (and the Canucks as a whole during their tenure) didn't have the right plays happen at the right time. It happens, I'll never fault them for it. Instead I will celebrate the fact they dragged the Canucks into relevance and serious Cup Contender status for the first time in the Franchise's history.

--

On a less sentimental route. We don't have the prospects to just let the Sedins leave lol. Our team is hot garbage. Force feeding busts wastes years and doesn't particularly help our draft odds that much.

 

[krutovsdonut]

not what i expected in this thread.

it's cool they went to the trouble of expressing themselves that way.

my take would be if this is what the sedins want this is what they get. no problem and no questions asked.

is it logically true that trading them at the tdl would be better for the club? yes.

do we follow sports for logical reasons? no.

would it be any fun if we reduced sports to its logical components? no.

is it true that doughty's attitude as reflected in that reported statement is better than the sedins? no, not logically or emotionally. hockey is a team sport and the emotional strength of a team is a factor in success. doughty bailed on his teammates with his statement. it violated an old school code team first rule that exists in team competition for a reason. if it is fairly reported he will never shake that imho and every teammate he ever has will have it in the back of his mind that he is a mercenary who wants me out the door the moment someone else better is available, and will jump ship for a bigger better chance to win if given a chance. as for fans, in a team sport, a statement like the one doughty made betrays the whole concept of being a team fan.

if i want to watch individuals compete i'll follow tennis or ski racing. in team sports, i'll think less of a guy who thinks only of his own success. heck, even in individual sports i'll think less of a guy who shows a clear mercenary attitude. i might appreciate his skill, but why should i cheer for a guy who in no way buys into or reciprocates the ideas behind being a fan?

 

[krutovsdonut]

Sport is tough. It takes a lot of things to go right for you to win it all. Especially true for a game like Hockey.

The Sedins (and the Canucks as a whole during their tenure) didn't have the right plays happen at the right time. It happens, I'll never fault them for it. Instead I will celebrate the fact they dragged the Canucks into relevance and serious Cup Contender status for the first time in the Franchise's history.

exactly

 

[Alan Jackson]

What's the point of playing the game, or supporting a team if you don't care about winning? Oh well, it's okay if we lose as long as we have a bunch of nice guys. Uh huh.

Part of what being a fan is about is rooting for a team and players that you feel some emotional attachment to.

If the Canucks traded the entire roster at the trade deadline for the Blackhawks roster, and then won the Cup a few months later, it would feel empty, hollow.

You want to win, of course, but you want to win with players you like and respect, players you feel like you know and players that have earned your affection. At least that's how I feel.

As far as the Sedins go, they have absolutely earned the right to stay here. That doesn't mean they aren't competitive. Those are proud guys - I imagine they secretly think they can still be part of a Stanley Cup here, however irrational that might be on the surface.

To me, if you don't like 22 and 33, I'm not sure how you can be a fan of this team. As it stands, I think they're more or less untradeable anyways, so it's a moot point.

 

[CascadiaPuck]

20 year old Cogburn would have accepted high pay for a job, no matter how low the odds of me being the tops in my field, or odds of moving up within the company. He has the energy to do every thing, and when it comes down to it, is looking to make a name for himself.

30 year old Cogburn has already accepted lower pay for the right fit, and even though he is unattached and unburdened with children, may not accept a higher paying job with better odds of advancement if it required a big move, or other huge flaws, as he has been rewarded for excellent work and is interested to see where his company will go.

40 year old Cogburn is not moving from the city that 20 and 30 year old Cogburn created a life in, at least not for "possible" advancement with a rival company, across the country, when he is already an award winning star in his field at his company. It no longer matters someone in the same industry is offering the same pay, as he has earned his peers respect and advanced within his company. He wants what is best for his family.

I love they wrote our their thoughts and feelings and gave us some insight as to why it is so important to them. I really hope we can give them a proper final season, whether or not its next year or later on.

Well said.

I see all the back and forth here and it's a bit sad - the suggestion that they're "content to lose" in particular. Some high-character people I have met want to win - but they've wanted to do so on their terms, not at any cost. Given how Canada sometimes loses its best and brightest in a lot of different fields of work, maybe we should take a beat and contemplate the Sedins in that light. I mean, I know people who have excelled in a variety of different areas in the US, Europe, Asia, etc. These were people who could have done their work at the top level in whatever city was the "Mecca" of their field, but they chose to come back to Canada and build their careers here.

Yes, part of that was about valuing "home" for themselves and their families. But part of it absolutely was also about building something with meaning in the place where they were from instead of building it somewhere else. I am absolutely willing to believe that the Sedins have a personal calculus that includes this kind of thinking - and I hope they continue to be a part of the organization in a constructive way going forward.

 

[MS]

Part of what being a fan is about is rooting for a team and players that you feel some emotional attachment to.

If the Canucks traded the entire roster at the trade deadline for the Blackhawks roster, and then won the Cup a few months later, it would feel empty, hollow.

You want to win, of course, but you want to win with players you like and respect, players you feel like you know and players that have earned your affection. At least that's how I feel.

As far as the Sedins go, they have absolutely earned the right to stay here. That doesn't mean they aren't competitive. Those are proud guys - I imagine they secretly think they can still be part of a Stanley Cup here, however irrational that might be on the surface.

To me, if you don't like 22 and 33, I'm not sure how you can be a fan of this team. As it stands, I think they're more or less untradeable anyways, so it's a moot point.

Agreed 100%.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Part of what being a fan is about is rooting for a team and players that you feel some emotional attachment to.

If the Canucks traded the entire roster at the trade deadline for the Blackhawks roster, and then won the Cup a few months later, it would feel empty, hollow.

You want to win, of course, but you want to win with players you like and respect, players you feel like you know and players that have earned your affection. At least that's how I feel.

As far as the Sedins go, they have absolutely earned the right to stay here. That doesn't mean they aren't competitive. Those are proud guys - I imagine they secretly think they can still be part of a Stanley Cup here, however irrational that might be on the surface.

To me, if you don't like 22 and 33, I'm not sure how you can be a fan of this team. As it stands, I think they're more or less untradeable anyways, so it's a moot point.

Again, thanks for proving my point about needing to go to extremes to defend the Sedins. It's getting ridiculous.