DANIEL SEDIN AND HENRIK SEDIN | Dear Vancouver,

[y2kcanucks]

That's exactly what has happened isn't it? Twins hold a NMC, so they came out and said that they don't want to leave so makes no difference what the team may want.

And I agree that there is no reason to extend them.

What difference does it make what their reasons are for staying. Won't change the fact that they won't leave.

I have accepted it. You should as well so that we can drop this.

This is a different matter if they did not hold NMC. Then trading them should be what management does. But the NMC is there.

Because I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing that I disagree with their attitude and approach. I strongly disagree with their priorities. I feel that if you have lost the desire to become a champion that you should no longer compete.

 

[clunk]

Until the Sedins leave or stop getting relied on, the philosophy of the team and the stink of the past core won't go away. Not that the Sedins are bad players or humans. Absolutely not. They are fantastic... But if they keep building this team around the Sedins and giving them top minutes, I don't see this young 'core' taking the next step to be able to turn itself into a contender.

Ideally, I'd like to see them as 3rd liners. I'd be absolutely fine with them in this role... Them saying things like "We have to ask Jagr how he's lasted this long" and stuff like that scare me... Because this management is dumb enough to keep signing and relying on these guys even if they're wayyyy past their prime... And the Sedins will keep taking the spot of young players who desperately need the minutes to succeed and develop.

I just don't see us going into another playoffs with these two as our main sources of scoring. (If they're staying as long as they say they will)

 

[Shareefruck]

Have to disagree with most of everything Y2KCanucks has said in this thread. In particular, it's inane to take petty pot-shots in every direction and actively stroke your own ego and then act like people are cowardly/lazy for not wanting to engage in "meaningful discussion" with you. Lack of meaningful discussion arising from that is not on them, it's on you for inviting discussion in the most hostile and childish way possible.

I can respect some of his criticisms against the Sedins' actual play over the years, but this idea that it reflects poorly on a player to decide not to spend the end of your career jumping from organization to organization chasing a cup is not something I can get on board with.

That's not necessarily indicative of a player not wanting to win a cup. At best it's indicative of the fact that a player doesn't consider jumping ship to win a cup a meaningful way of actually earning it. It's fair to scoff at that mindset, but I think that's about as far as you can take that.

 

[Zhaolo]

Because I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing that I disagree with their attitude and approach. I strongly disagree with their priorities. I feel that if you have lost the desire to become a champion that you should no longer compete.

Any cup contender can fit these guys or asking for these guys? If priorities is to win a cup, every player should demand trade to Pitts. Getting nothing back but cap dumps and crap picks, sure why not, they want to win right.

They've always wanted to win here, on paper, there's likely no chance here or else where other than in Pittsburgh, so I don't even know what you're going on about with their attitude. How are they guaranteed a cup by going to another team? If we do trade them and get nothing back, it wouldn't do this team any good or provide fans with any hope.

 

[Street Hawk]

Because I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing that I disagree with their attitude and approach. I strongly disagree with their priorities. I feel that if you have lost the desire to become a champion that you should no longer compete.

That's how they are wired. I knew that they would be this way the moment they signed in Nov 2013 when I felt the Canucks were due to decline. This does not surprise me.

They are like doan, and sundin. Loyal to a fault.

Now, had gillis not extended them in 2013, that would have made for an interesting 2014 TDL.

Edler is the same way. He won't waive either but unlike the twins he will get contract offers in 2019 since he will be 33 not 37. So, he knows that if he wants to okay into his later 30's it will be with another team. My bet is that he wants control over where he goes when his extension kicks in which he can't sign until July 2018.

There are players everywhere who don't leave bad situations. You think Houston wouldn't give up picks for Brees? Like he had a shot of winning with NO these past few seasons. He could go and instantly make Denver, Houston, Jax, AZ a contender. But he has tied himself to NO.

 

[dwarf]

Because I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing that I disagree with their attitude and approach. I strongly disagree with their priorities. I feel that if you have lost the desire to become a champion that you should no longer compete.

I could not agree more. Players who are just punching the clock and collecting their pay cheques, are not worth paying to go watch.

The NHL is about winning Stanley cups, not collecting pay cheques.

The Sedins are good players, and its too bad they don't want to compete and take a trade to a cup contender.

 

[mathonwy]

Ya know Y2K...

Kudos to you (in a weird twisted way) for holding your ground against the entirety of the HFBoards Canucks community... this is truly your 300 moment.

I don't know what exactly you are saying anymore to be honest. I get that you're disappointed that metaphorically speaking the Sedins are apples and not oranges.

And nobody has tried to argue otherwise.

However, realistically speaking though, there aren't that many oranges in this league so you going on and on railing about the fact that they aren't oranges.... that's plays to Mr. Canucklehead's example of the old man railing at the wind.

We get it, they aren't oranges.

But, most of us are ok with that.

The Sedins have been the best damn apples this franchise have EVER had bar none. and when they retire, we will never EVER see apples the calibre of the Sedins in our life times.

They aren't oranges. This is a terrible franchise. Jimbo is a dumbass. Water is wet. Life goes on.

Don't you think it's better to appreciate the things you have instead of dwelling on the things you don't have?

If you don't that's completely fine. Whatever makes you happy right?

 

[Alan Jackson]

I could not agree more. Players who are just punching the clock and collecting their pay cheques, are not worth paying to go watch.

The NHL is about winning Stanley cups, not collecting pay cheques.

The Sedins are good players, and its too bad they don't want to compete and take a trade to a cup contender.

I can name about 25 teams that have no chance to win the cup this season. Perhaps all those players should demand trades to the 5 or so teams that actually have a chance this season.

If players want to win, they should focus on making their own teams better.

If the Sedins want to be moved, fine, you try to accommodate them (although I have no idea what contending team can take on two $14 million forwards).

If they want to stay, you respect that. End of.

 

[MS]

I'm pretty sure most Red Sox fans are still disgusted that the team didn't trade Carl Yastrzemski to Kansas City or somewhere for some middling prospects in 1982 when it was obvious the team wouldn't win while he was still playing. And think he's a total loser for not demanding a trade.

If you can't understand why having Hall of Fame players spend their entire ~20 year career playing for your franchise is a special thing, and don't appreciate the class and prestige that adds to your organization ... to me, you're kind of a crappy fan.

 

[dwarf]

I can name about 25 teams that have no chance to win the cup this season. Perhaps all those players should demand trades to the 5 or so teams that actually have a chance this season.

If players want to win, they should focus on making their own teams better.

If the Sedins want to be moved, fine, you try to accommodate them (although I have no idea what contending team can take on two $14 million forwards).

If they want to stay, you respect that. End of.

There are 16 teams that have a chance every year. And there are cusp teams who try to push hard to get in.

At the trade deadline, most of that salary cost is gone. That is why players are traded then.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I'm pretty sure most Red Sox fans are still disgusted that the team didn't trade Carl Yastrzemski to Kansas City or somewhere for some middling prospects in 1982 when it was obvious the team wouldn't win while he was still playing. And think he's a total loser for not demanding a trade.

If you can't understand why having Hall of Fame players spend their entire ~20 year career playing for your franchise is a special thing, and don't appreciate the class and prestige that adds to your organization ... to me, you're kind of a crappy fan.

Did Yastrzemski say he'd rather play in Boston than go off and try to win a World Series? Did he say that winning the World Series wouldn't feel as good doing it on another team, so he would prefer to just stay in Boston?

 

[dwarf]

I'm pretty sure most Red Sox fans are still disgusted that the team didn't trade Carl Yastrzemski to Kansas City or somewhere for some middling prospects in 1982 when it was obvious the team wouldn't win while he was still playing. And think he's a total loser for not demanding a trade.

If you can't understand why having Hall of Fame players spend their entire ~20 year career playing for your franchise is a special thing, and don't appreciate the class and prestige that adds to your organization ... to me, you're kind of a crappy fan.

This does make sense when the league system supports keeping players.

The NHL changed with the lockout and trade dead lines. Change is hard for me too, but I have. I loved it when vets stayed, and hated it when Ray Bourque moved to Colorado for example.

However, it can be very rewarding for teams to trade their vets, for picks and prospects in today's NHL.

I think it is something that should be looked at very closely if you wish to rebuild.

 

[Street Hawk]

There are 16 teams that have a chance every year. And there are cusp teams who try to push hard to get in.

At the trade deadline, most of that salary cost is gone. That is why players are traded then.

More than just salary at play. There's fit, style, other needs and I stress again, a top team should have 5 top 6 forwards, so one of the twins should not be a need.

I think Henrik at 50% is worth a good return. However his value IMO drops once you have to strap $7 million of Daniel with him because they don't want to play apart. How is a coach going to change up lines if the twins never play apart! Makes it harder to finalize a trade.

 

[Tobi Wan Kenobi]

I could not agree more. Players who are just punching the clock and collecting their pay cheques, are not worth paying to go watch.

The NHL is about winning Stanley cups, not collecting pay cheques.

The Sedins are good players, and its too bad they don't want to compete and take a trade to a cup contender.

Yeah cuz the Sedins are just playing for the money right? That who they are... You'd think after 17 years it'd be easy to get a read on people but I guess some people are still trying

 

[MS]

This whole discussion of 'whether' they should be traded or not is also completely moot because pretty much any possibility it could have happened even if they or the team had wanted to was basically killed when they retained salary on Hansen last year.

 

[Street Hawk]

Agreed. Way too hard to manage $10.5 million in cap space.

Plus, again, how many teams truly need both of them? Most teams also look to add depth to D and the PK at the TDL.

Would I give up Goldy for the chance the twins choose to waive their nmc? No.... I

 

[Ace of Hades]

Most classiest respectful players to ever don a Canucks Jersey. Happy at the fact they played their whole careers here for my fav team. Take off Smyl's jersey from the rafters and replace his with the Sedins.

 

[vancityluongo]

I would look to trade them. If they refuse to waive their NMC I would let them play out the rest of the season but wouldn't look to re-sign them.

Trade for what?

If you're letting them walk at the end of the season, what do you do to replace

a) The letters they wear, and whatever amount of leadership void them not being on the team creates (ie. I think that adds a whole lot of pressure to Horvat/Boeser who simply aren't ready - see Taylor Hall for what happens to kids in that situation - and don't think Derek Dorsett is enough to make for that). Or do you think that there would be no leadership void if they left?
b) Their cap space
c) The roles they play on-ice, whether that be hypothetical second line minutes going forward, or fourth line minutes with spot duties on the 2nd unit PP. Who takes over in that spot?

 

[Street Hawk]

Trade for what?

If you're letting them walk at the end of the season, what do you do to replace

a) The letters they wear, and whatever amount of leadership void them not being on the team creates (ie. I think that adds a whole lot of pressure to Horvat/Boeser who simply aren't ready - see Taylor Hall for what happens to kids in that situation - and don't think Derek Dorsett is enough to make for that). Or do you think that there would be no leadership void if they left?
b) Their cap space
c) The roles they play on-ice, whether that be hypothetical second line minutes going forward, or fourth line minutes with spot duties on the 2nd unit PP. Who takes over in that spot?

I believe Edler wears a letter. Plus there are vets like tanev, Loui, Sutter to go along with Bo.

Cap space, see what the market has in 2018.

On ice roles, bo, Brock granny, Sven, Loui, Sutter, gagner will be in the top 9. Still have Goldy, gaudette, Virtanen, dahlen who can push for the final 2 spots. Then there is free agency with the saved $14 millon cap space.

 

[MS]

Agreed. Way too hard to manage $10.5 million in cap space.

Plus, again, how many teams truly need both of them? Most teams also look to add depth to D and the PK at the TDL.

Would I give up Goldy for the chance the twins choose to waive their nmc? No.... I

Yeah, there's simply no way any contending team can take on $10.5 million in cap space at the deadline.

It's a pointless discussion. Even if they desperately wanted to go to a contender and even if the team desperately wanted to move them ... they'd still be here in April.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Yeah, there's simply no way any contending team can take on $10.5 million in cap space at the deadline.

It's a pointless discussion. Even if they desperately wanted to go to a contender and even if the team desperately wanted to move them ... they'd still be here in April.

You seemingly ignored my response to your last post.

There are teams that could take on their cap hit at the deadline. Toronto is one. Columbus another. Calgary, though not sure what their contending status would be like. Minnesota. Montreal. Nashville. Ottawa. San Jose. And you guessed it: Pittsburgh.

 

[Pip]

I'm truly disgusted that John Tavares hasn't requested a trade to Pittsburgh. Clearly that's a guy who doesn't give a **** about winning.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I'm truly disgusted that John Tavares hasn't requested a trade to Pittsburgh. Clearly that's a guy who doesn't give a **** about winning.

Must have missed the memo where Tavares was nearing retirement. Do you have inside info on this?

Can you show me where Tavares said winning a Stanley Cup with another team wouldn't feel as good, and that instead of chasing a Cup he prefers to just stay in NYI?

 

[Pip]

Must have missed the memo where Tavares was nearing retirement. Do you have inside info on this?

Can you show me where Tavares said winning a Stanley Cup with another team wouldn't feel as good, and that instead of chasing a Cup he prefers to just stay in NYI?

I don't care what he says, actions speak louder than words. The fact that he decided to stay with the Islanders despite them being a middling team going nowhere says it all. What does him bring young have to do with anything? Is it okay not to want to win early on in your career?

 

[Street Hawk]

You seemingly ignored my response to your last post.

There are teams that could take on their cap hit at the deadline. Toronto is one. Columbus another. Calgary, though not sure what their contending status would be like. Minnesota. Montreal. Nashville. Ottawa. San Jose. And you guessed it: Pittsburgh.

Do both twins fit the primary needs of those teams? Cause they are a package deal.

SJ was too slow against Pitt, yet adding the sedins makes them slower. Wild have granny, croyle, nino, Parise in the top 6 on the wings. Do they need Daniel?

Toronto does not need scoring.

I don't expect teams to covet both twins which is the second main issue about moving them after their cap hits.

Individually they return a decent enough package, but combined it gets tighter cause the number of options drop. Twins do not offer versatility. Nothing else but some secondary scoring. No speed, physicality, ok, forechecking, etc. You can benefit with one of them but not sure if it makes sense for teams to get both at this point in their careers.