Coronavirus discussion thread (no political debates)

[thewave]

auspice

Showing 2894 of 2894 genomes sampled between Dec 2019 and Mar 2020.

Can they really make a vaccine for this? They can't even get the standard yearly flu vaccine right most years.

 

[rumman]

There is no question life as we knew it will be different after this passes. There will be lots of hardship as a fallout of this pandemic and shutting down the economy but saving human lives will always be the highest priority.

One of the main reasons however that the final outcome on society being worse than it has to be, is because people are not doing everything now in their power individually as responsible people to lesson that impact.. Those that are, are not only focusing on human lives saved, but also the economy at the same time when they shelter at home, and self isolate and let this pass as quick as possible.

The resistance (lets call them) is actually risking more lives now and also prolonging the economy recovery by months by dragging it out into extended times now, which keeps the shutdown in effect because the virus continues to spread rather than being defeated.

The world is working on a vaccine as fast as possible to help save lives and return to normalcy, what is happening now is buying them time and trying to save as many lives in the process. In fact those 15 minute tests we were discussing earlier are a step once mass production occurs which will allow those that are negative or have already been infected and recovered making the antibodies themselves will be able to return to the work force.

The goal isn't to isolate the most vulnerable, its really about isolating those infected from the mass world population that isn't, to return the economy ASAP.

nice recap.

 

[thewave]

i think people don’t have any idea what the current state of our healthcare system is. And how it gets funded.

one of the major issues we have is we don’t have ICU beds...... well why? Because no one thought of It? There were no movies about it?

there haven’t been protests of cuts?


The economy fuels the healthcare system.

We “couldn’t afford” basic healthcare or ICU beds... but now we can afford for the country to stop working?


Why aren’t there 10,000 icu beds? How much money and lives would we save?

They could just convert the arenas into an ICU building. Lets think about this...

High Schools can become makeshift ICU (Not like kids go there anymore anyways)
Closed stores
Banquet Halls can become ICU
Arenas
Universities

It's not hard if you have an imagination. That's why I think the measures are stupid or perhaps the people running the governments of the world are just so dumb and I am genius. Am I a genius? Maybe comparatively all things considered.

 

[Peasy]

They could just convert the arenas into an ICU building. Lets think about this...

High Schools can become makeshift ICU (Not like kids go there anymore anyways)
Closed stores
Banquet Halls can become ICU
Arenas
Universities

It's not hard if you have an imagination. That's why I think the measures are stupid or perhaps the people running the governments of the world are just so dumb and I am genius. Am I a genius? Maybe comparatively all things considered.

And where do the beds come from?

 

[Legion34]

And where do the beds come from?

well apparently we have 100 billion dollars to give out..... so maybe there?

 

[Joey Hoser]

It's not hard if you have an imagination.

Well you certainly have that.

 

[TheKule]

Not looking for sympathy as I am young and very healthy, but I have a suspected case of COVID-19. The pain/pressure in my upper left lung is very uncomfortable, and the moderate shortness of breath is.. inconvenient. Telehealth told me to sit tight and monitor. Stay safe folks. I had been self isolating for a week before my symptoms, praying I didnt spread this to my coworkers.

 

[rumman]

here is the issue that I have though. I have worked in the system since 2006. I can tell you that at every turn. Funding has been cut. We have been told there is no money for breaks, extra staff, security measures.


Health care is intrinsically linked to public funding. There are HOURS a day, multiple times a week, where there are no ambulances on the road for 500k people.... and Ford was still. Cutting. Still. Police/ems/fire/hospital all have no money.

Ford cut millions from emergency services like 3 months ago.


Now we expect the government can afford 100 billion? And we will be able to afford all this healthcare?


Why are we using. Old equipment now? If there was 100 billion dollars, why are there no police/ambulances? Why are people waiting on stretchers and being treated in hallways?
maybe because the previous government tried to give everyone everything for free, digging a hole the present government has been trying to rectify?

Imo, no government could accurately "budget" for a pandemic of these proportions.

Why didn’t the use 10 billion dollars to provide proper services?

from 13 years in the system I have serious concerns about my job etc after this. Provided I don’t die from it from the job... are we really expecting. That the government, who couldn’t afford to put ambulances on the street will have public funding after this?
2 years later the healthcare ramifications will be unimaginable unless they have been lying the whole time.

we have 100 billion dollars to drop.... but we couldn’t afford masks?

We are so worried about ICU beds, and we should be...... but why weren’t we worried last year? Why were we cutting when we had. 100 billion dollars? Why isn’t there more beds?

 

[DueDiligence]

Numbers from Ontario ... would have just went with herd immunity

Actually there would have been 100,000 deaths in Ontario using the herd immunity method.

 

[Pookie]

Not looking for sympathy as I am young and very healthy, but I have a suspected case of COVID-19. The pain/pressure in my upper left lung is very uncomfortable, and the moderate shortness of breath is.. inconvenient. Telehealth told me to sit tight and monitor. Stay safe folks. I had been self isolating for a week before my symptoms, praying I didnt spread this to my coworkers.

Best of luck to you. Quite a few of us will be in your situation before all is said and done.

 

[rumman]

I'm of the opinion of dealing with the pandemic first and dealing with what's left of the economy later, triage the hazards...............

 

[Sens]

Actually there would have been 100,000 deaths in Ontario using the herd immunity method.

That’s my point... The economy closing down is going to do much more damage then 100K

going to watch the housing market get destroyed now

 

[DueDiligence]

Not statistically significant and does not even approach the rates of a bad flu year. Even with the 100,000 number is less than 1% death rate. I guess money families will have fun buying up all the leveraged peoples homes, all the debt strapped. Meh, whatever fine lock it up boys I don't care anymore. Lock her right up.

Well what do you think Ontario and Canada should do? Your opinions seem to jump allover the place just to raise controversy.

 

[Pookie]

And where do the beds come from?

Beds are probably the easiest part.

An ICU requires electrical, oxygen, wall suction “built in” and secondary equipment like a ventilator, feeding pumps, IV pumps, dialysis, monitors... it’s built such that all patients are visible from a central location.

You then need to ensure the data is passed to a central monitoring station.

You can retrofit a school or something but it’s not a small or inexpensive task.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Not looking for sympathy as I am young and very healthy, but I have a suspected case of COVID-19. The pain/pressure in my upper left lung is very uncomfortable, and the moderate shortness of breath is.. inconvenient. Telehealth told me to sit tight and monitor. Stay safe folks. I had been self isolating for a week before my symptoms, praying I didnt spread this to my coworkers.

Best of luck. I had pneumonia in my early 30's which lasted a week. Same thing it was in 1 lung. Pain for me was lower rib. It was viral kind so there was no treatment but rest and chicken soup. Best thing I found was sleep. Took me a good week of it to pass. Sucks because exercise of any kind makes things worse. Try a heat pad on area which is sore. I found it relaxed me a little so I could fall asleep.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I'm of the opinion of dealing with the pandemic first and dealing with what's left of the economy later, triage the hazards...............

Agreed. Let's get on the downslope of this thing and figure out a plan from there.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Not looking for sympathy as I am young and very healthy, but I have a suspected case of COVID-19. The pain/pressure in my upper left lung is very uncomfortable, and the moderate shortness of breath is.. inconvenient. Telehealth told me to sit tight and monitor. Stay safe folks. I had been self isolating for a week before my symptoms, praying I didnt spread this to my coworkers.

It’s not your fault if anyone happened to get it from you. This puppy is really silent as we all know. You just relax and get better and don’t worry. Get well quickly we will be wanting to hear back when you are all better for a update

 

[PromisedLand]

I'm of the opinion of dealing with the pandemic first and dealing with what's left of the economy later, triage the hazards...............

Data clearly suggests that even though people of certain age won't die they could potentially require hospitalization; with the kind of exponential spread if everybody gets infected, X% of these people will require hospitalization. If all of X% do not get immediate care probability of them dying is much higher regardless of age or underlying condition.

If most of the people are sick and then spread the sickness what kind of economy do we expect to have anyway....??? Labour is required for economy to function and for good economy productive good labour is required.

If half your labour is sick and 50% of those sick require immediate medical help with this f***ing virus mutating there isn't going to be any economy left

0% real gdp growth doesn't mean it is bad it just means we are as well of this year as we were last year (or any time period).

Saving the economy when people are healthy is one thing; but trying to save the economy when the major component of that economy "labour" is potentially at risk is absolutely STUPID!

Consumer demand is being maintained in the economy with government already spending money.

Major part of Canadian GDP is domestic household income and domestic household consumption ; if households get effed over by the virus; there is no GDP.

check the facts at statcan.gc.ca for GDP statistics.
The Daily — Gross domestic product, income and expenditure, fourth quarter 2019



Valuing economy over human lives is not only absolutely ethically wrong but supremely MORONIC and complete lack of understanding of what "economy" even means when you try to put one of major inputs of GDP i.e. labour at potential health risk

 

[Legion34]

formatting makes it a little difficult to follow (no worries happens to me too) but


1.) everyone and their mother predicted a pandemic like this. H1n1 killed 500-600k people. 1 billion infections. Hollywood made movies. There is a Netflix show on this subject.

it was very predictable and widely known to be an issue. We didn’t know when. But we knew it was coming.


2.) the healthcare system has been underfunded for years. There are issues in billing etc. Sure. There are inefficiencies. But there have been incredible issues. The 360 million in provincial cutbacks didn’t help.

Emergency services had too much. We got paid too much. Noware heroes with raises? Can spend 23 million on kids help phone but we can’t spend it on icu beds?

how could we not afford it then, but can afford it now? Where is this money coming from? What are the implications? Do we globally all just pretend it didn’t happen?

or when we get over this are we going to be in a way worse spot than ever?

 

[Legion34]

Data clearly suggests that even though people of certain age won't die they could potentially require hospitalization; with the kind of exponential spread if everybody gets infected, X% of these people will require hospitalization. If all of X% do not get immediate care probability of them dying is much higher regardless of age or underlying condition.

If most of the people are sick and then spread the sickness what kind of economy do we expect to have anyway....??? Labour is required for economy to function and for good economy productive good labour is required.

If half your labour is sick and 50% of those sick require immediate medical help with this f***ing virus mutating there isn't going to be any economy left

0% real gdp growth doesn't mean it is bad it just means we are as well of this year as we were last year (or any time period).

Saving the economy when people are healthy is one thing; but trying to save the economy when the major component of that economy "labour" is potentially at risk is absolutely STUPID!

Consumer demand is being maintained in the economy with government already spending money.

Major part of Canadian GDP is domestic household income and domestic household consumption ; if households get effed over by the virus; there is no GDP.

check the facts at statcan.gc.ca for GDP statistics.
The Daily — Gross domestic product, income and expenditure, fourth quarter 2019



Valuing economy over human lives is not only absolutely ethically wrong but supremely MORONIC and complete lack of understanding of what "economy" even means when you try to put one of major inputs of GDP i.e. labour at potential health risk

I think everyone agrees that right now we have to do what we have to do. What I have been saying all along is that this is unsustainable long term. Certain people have acted like we can all just stop working for 2 years and the government can just take care of it.

I don’t believe anyone here is saying they are flaunting the rules or not taking it seriously. It’s clear that this is a step we need to make now. But it will have grave consequences long term. There will be a tipping point.

 

[PromisedLand]

Not looking for sympathy as I am young and very healthy, but I have a suspected case of COVID-19. The pain/pressure in my upper left lung is very uncomfortable, and the moderate shortness of breath is.. inconvenient. Telehealth told me to sit tight and monitor. Stay safe folks. I had been self isolating for a week before my symptoms, praying I didnt spread this to my coworkers.

Feel better man.

best wishes to you and your family!

Hope you recover soon; and your friends/family do not have severe symptoms incase they caught it

 

[Walshy7]

That’s my point... The economy closing down is going to do much more damage then 100K

going to watch the housing market get destroyed now

Who gives a shit about what your house is worth?

 

[DueDiligence]

That’s my point... The economy closing down is going to do much more damage then 100K

going to watch the housing market get destroyed now

so you think "riding it out" with 100,000 deaths would have no effect on the economy?

 

[Legion34]

Who gives a shit about what your house is worth?

have you been to Detroit?

 

[Walshy7]

have you been to Detroit?

detroit had a choice between 100,000s deaths or low house prices?

 

[PromisedLand]

I think everyone agrees that right now we have to do what we have to do. What I have been saying all along is that this is unsustainable long term. Certain people have acted like we can all just stop working for 2 years and the government can just take care of it.

I don’t believe anyone here is saying they are flaunting the rules or not taking it seriously. It’s clear that this is a step we need to make now. But it will have grave consequences long term. There will be a tipping point.

Money is basically a "medium of exchange"; we use it to trade the goods/services and our labour.

Back in the day it was the barter system; money is a "legal tender" where a nation has said that yes you can use this "piece of paper" to exchange goods/services and labour.

Monetary authorities can easy pump more money to maintain the basic needs (food, water, shelter, medical help) and in today's world (internet/cell-phone); other than that any other thing is just extra which we do not need.

I hope it doesn't come to two years; but if it does then so be it; we will try to make it work.

We don't need that new Iphone or that brand new car today those are "wants" not "needs"; we have to make sure needs are met wants can wait.

Also, the current scenario is not like the great depression, it is like a natural disaster from which we will try to recover - as global demand recovers. Major countries in the world are following the same protocol; it is not like they are demanding that new phone right now; people in other countries are also on semi-lockdown and staying home.

You don't have to take my word for it listen to former chair of the Fed
Former Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke sees 'very sharp' recession, followed by 'fairly quick' rebound

Furthermore, with modern technology there are many studies being conducted to combat the virus

For example, one of the recent study in the States
'Pandemic' scientist says his team has discovered potential cure for COVID-19

I think we will find some kind of medical treatment - if not the cure/vaccine-- soon enough and then we can open the economy for business.

Banks can forgo their "profits" for time being; just work on zero profits; the difference to be covered by monetary authorities for example.

Long story short, without healthy people we don't have healthy workforce/labour, and without healthy workforce/labour we will never have a healthy economy.

It is people that make the economy, it isn't economy that makes the people.